Yeast Harvest - Bell's Amber

So on Saturday (2.5 days ago) I drank a 6-pack of Bell's Amber (that's right ) and saved the sediment at the bottom of the bottle from each (with about 10% of beer still left). The date on the bottles was 10/15/11.

I added all of it to 1/2 cup of DME, and 2 cups of water with yeast nutrient, that was boiled and cooled. I placed a foil cap on top, but I don't have a starter plate so have been swishing it around a few times a day.

I smelled it last night, after it had been 48 hours and can't tell if any of the yeast is waking up/developing. Unfortunately it's in a brown growler so I can't actually 'see' if there are any signs of fermentation.

So I added another 1/2 cup of DME. If I don't see any signs of fermentation in the next day or so I may give up.

Do you think the bottles were too old? I know that younger is better, and may try to find a store with fresher inventory and try again.

I think you need to give it more time.

I'd be willing to duplicate your experiment if you want to send me a six pack of some Bells.

samc said:

I think you need to give it more time.

I'd be willing to duplicate your experiment if you want to send me a six pack of some Bells.

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Ha!

Thanks, I will definitely give it a few more days at least. I'm going to be making a 2-hearted clone this weekend and was hoping to have built up the yeast from those bottles by then. But I have some washed 1056 so I could use that with a starter instead.

Can you take a gravity reading?

Don't give up. I did the same with 3 bottles of Bell's Amber on Saturday, adding the dregs to 250ml of 1.020 wort. It didn't look like anything was happening in my flask 24 hours later - no krausen and the wort didn't seem to be any different color. I boiled up an additional 50 grams of DME in 500ml of water and added it to the flask on Sunday afternoon. This morning I turned off the stir plate and let it settle for half an hour - and saw a sizeable amount of yeast in the flask.

CnnmnSchnpps said:

Can you take a gravity reading?

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Sure I could try. Since its a combo of DME (1 cup total + 4 cups water), and about 6 oz of leftover amber ale from the 6 bottles, what sort of gravity should I expect?

1 lb of DME in 1 gallon of water is about 1.042 - scale those numbers to your situation.

Thought I would update my post. It's been 4 complete days and I'm showing good signs of the yeast producing, actually she started up last night after 3+ days.

So I added one more 1/2 cup of DME w/ 2 cups boiled water to see if she really takes off.

That means I've stepped her up 3 times. I'm hoping that I'll have enough yeast to brew over the weekend.

Your results are right in line with mine. Last night I decanted the spent wort and added 100 gms dme and 1 litre boiled water. I'm going to do this again in 2-3 days, then a final 125 gms / 1,250 ml water 3 days after that. I'm brewing next Saturday.

jmf143 said:

Your results are right in line with mine. Last night I decanted the spent wort and added 100 gms dme and 1 litre boiled water. I'm going to do this again in 2-3 days, then a final 125 gms / 1,250 ml water 3 days after that. I'm brewing next Saturday.

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So how many times are you actually stepping it up? A total of 4 if you count the initial one? What size brew are going to use the yeast for?

I'm planning on the 2-hearted clone from NB with an OG of 1.064.

periwinkle1239 said:

So how many times are you actually stepping it up? A total of 4 if you count the initial one? What size brew are going to use the yeast for?

I'm planning on the 2-hearted clone from NB with an OG of 1.064.

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I'm doing the two hearted clone posted on here by eschatz. I'm doing a 5.5 gallon batch and need approx. 250 billion cells.

I searched for but couldn't find the number of yeast cells in the dregs of a bottle of beer. If I had that number I could of used YeastCalc to figure out the steps I'd need for my inital 3 bottles worth of yeast. Without something definite to go by I'm going to be conservative and go with 250ml, 500ml 1000ml, 1000ml and 1250ml. I'll decant before the two 1000 and 1250 feedings.

Last Sunday I brewed my Centennial IPA recipe and used yeast harvested from Bell's Brown Ale. Tuesday prior made a 2qts or wort and added the dregs from 3 bottles. Put in closet, stir when ever I thought of it. Friday, put in fridge for several hours, made 1.5qts wort, decanted and pitched and added dregs from three more bottles Bell's Brown. By Sunday afternoon had a growler at full krausen... pitched the entire thing into 5 gallons. Three hours later the airlock was going to town. Bell's yeast is the best... makes great IPA as well.

Awesome!

Another question regarding harvesting yeast:

Assuming that I have a successful fermentation (when I brew my actual 5-gallon batch) with my harvested yeast, is it safe to wash them and re-use them for subsequent brews? I mean, they should be good for at least a few generations, am I right?

I recently had a failure in culturing Bell's yeast from their amber. Which is odd, I've always had success every other attempt in culturing it. Started off in a 50mL starter wort, and stepped up to 300mL. Still nothing, no healthy white layer of yeast after cold crashing.

Luckily though I do have a culture of Pacman taking off quite nicely.

periwinkle1239 said:

Another question regarding harvesting yeast:

Assuming that I have a successful fermentation (when I brew my actual 5-gallon batch) with my harvested yeast, is it safe to wash them and re-use them for subsequent brews? I mean, they should be good for at least a few generations, am I right?

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Yep, done that in the past with pretty great success. I've never gone past 5 generations though, mainly because most of my beers are IPAs or imperial stouts.

periwinkle1239 said:

Another question regarding harvesting yeast:

Assuming that I have a successful fermentation (when I brew my actual 5-gallon batch) with my harvested yeast, is it safe to wash them and re-use them for subsequent brews? I mean, they should be good for at least a few generations, am I right?

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How about grabbing some of the already harvested yeast from your starter and setting that aside? Less stress on the yeast, no trub, no washing etc.

I have a fermenting orange pale ale going right now from a starter using Bells (harvested from dregs of 3 Best Brown Ale bottles). I stepped it up twice ending up just short of 2 quarts. It took nearly 24 hours in the fridge for most of the starter yeast to drop out, so plan ahead for that (if you are not going to pitch the whole thing).

I think you can easily wash the yeast from your 5 gallon batch for future batches. From my current batch I am going to wash and repitch 1/3 of the cake for my 2 Hearted Clone on deck. The remaining 2/3 of the cake will be washed and saved for a future Porter. Really only went through a few yeast generations this way, so I think I'll be good to go.

passedpawn did a cell count using the dregs from a single bottle of 2 Hearted Ale. He came up with 302,000,000 cells. He did not use dye/stain, so he couldn't differentiate between living and dead cells.

Using his number x 3 (I started with dregs from 3 bottles) and a "born on date" of 10/15/2011 (from my six pack of Amber Ale) and steps of .25L, .5L, 1L and 1L on a stir plate I calculated I'll have 273 billion cells - more than enough for 5.5 gals of 1.064 wort.

Thought I would update my post. So I brewed last Sunday (12/11) as planned, and pitched my Bell's starter (decanted). It looked like there was plenty of yeast, I didn't measure it, but hoped I had enough.

The batch took off in merely a few hours at 60-62 degrees, showing active fermentation. The following day, approximately 24 hours in, she blew off.
On Saturday (6 days in), I removed the blow off and attached an airlock and she blew off over the weekend again! When I attached the air lock, I moved it to a different part of the house which was slightly warmer (approximately 65-67 degrees), plus I may have swished her around a bit (I tried not to). I'm wondering if that was the reason she took off again. Now it's been 8 days and she is still bubbling nicely, once every 3 seconds.

I've had good success fermenting ales at 60-62 and then after about 1 week move up by about 5 degrees to make sure the yeasties do the best job they can. Either way, I've never seen any of my brews ever ferment like this and I'm amazed at how strong Bell's yeast is. I haven't sampled it or taken a gravity yet, but I will after it looks like she's done fermenting.

This was a great experience and I can't wait to see how it turns out. I want to try harvesting another commercial beer. Any suggestions? Based on the forum, people seem to love the pacman from Rogues dead guy so I might try that next.

Happy brewing ya'll!

I'm going to try to harvest some pacman in the next few weeks, myself. I'm going to use Brutal IPA instead of Dead Guy, though, since there was a ton of yeast in the bottom of each of the few bombers I had of that. I'd have already harvested to let you know how it goes, but I'm waiting until I get a stirplate for Christmas. Plus it gives me an excuse to have some more Rogue beers!

Shakespeare stout is the way for PAC man

thisoneguy said:

I'd have already harvested to let you know how it goes, but I'm waiting until I get a stirplate for Christmas.

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I didn't use a stirplate, just swirled it around when I could. I know it's preferred to have one, but I don't think it's an absolute must.

bryank said:

Shakespeare stout is the way for PAC man

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I was thinking the stout might be the one to try!

Another update to my Bell's 2-hearted clone using the yeast I harvested from their Amber.

I checked the gravity yesterday, after 10 days and was right at 1.020. I was expecting lower, but she is still fermenting (she's bubbling once every 3-4 seconds and I can still see the yeasties swimming in there) so I'll let it be for a few more days and check again. I have the temp set at 68-70 for the race to the finish line.

I am hoping she can get all the way to 1.010 which is what I believe Bell's FG typically is for their 2-hearted. My mash temp was between 150-151 degrees and held for a whole hour, so I think I should have plenty of fermentables left.

I wonder what sort of FGs people obtain using Bell's yeast? I know it's dependent on a lot of variables...

My 2Hearted is in primary right now too. This was harvested from Bells Best Brown, but should be the same yeast. I made a 2L starter and fermented an Orange Pale ale using the Bells. It was relatively quick and finished right where it was supposed to. Kegged and delicious BTW.

I washed about 1/2 of that cake and pitched into a clean primary with my 2H clone (1.062 OG). It took off in about 4 hours and was very vigorous for the first 2.5 days. Pitched at 61, held at 64 for 2 days, and then I let it free rise to 69. I'm 3.5 days in and the fermentation is ramping down. Maybe 1 bubble every 5 seconds or so. The show should be over by the time I leave on Friday. I'll leave it sit another 2 weeks before cold crashing and bottling. I can post the FG at that time.

periwinkle1239 said:

Another update to my Bell's 2-hearted clone using the yeast I harvested from their Amber.

I checked the gravity yesterday, after 10 days and was right at 1.020. I was expecting lower, but she is still fermenting (she's bubbling once every 3-4 seconds and I can still see the yeasties swimming in there) so I'll let it be for a few more days and check again. I have the temp set at 68-70 for the race to the finish line.

I am hoping she can get all the way to 1.010 which is what I believe Bell's FG typically is for their 2-hearted. My mash temp was between 150-151 degrees and held for a whole hour, so I think I should have plenty of fermentables left.

I wonder what sort of FGs people obtain using Bell's yeast? I know it's dependent on a lot of variables...

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Maybe the attenuation is not as high because Bell's ferments 2Hearted way warmer?

Warmer yes, but their fermenter geometry (taller with more head pressure) allows them to do this. If you fermented that warm in a std 6.5 gallon bucket, I don't think you'd be happy with the results.

solbes said:

Warmer yes, but their fermenter geometry (taller with more head pressure) allows them to do this. If you fermented that warm in a std 6.5 gallon bucket, I don't think you'd be happy with the results.

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Gotcha. What is the equivalent for a typical 6.5 carboy? I was planning on making a clone, but the lack of Centennial and slow wake up time for the cloned yeast from the bottle made me impatient. So I just substituted Falconer's Flight and 1056. Tastes really delicious.

pabloj13 said:

Gotcha. What is the equivalent for a typical 6.5 carboy?

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I don't think there's an exact number. But this thread below talks about some of it:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/how-do-commercial-brewers-ferment-quickly-262937/index2.html

Thought I would post one more time here since I was the OP. (not sure anyone really cares, except me)

My Bell's 2-hearted clone with harvested Bell's yeast has officially finished fermenting. It took a full two weeks and the airlock has essentially stopped, so I took one more gravity reading of 1.013. (I missed my 1.010 goal, but no sense in splitting hairs)

And also, the sample was absolutely amazing. This is by far the cleanest tasting brew I've ever made. It is a night and day difference between the extract 2-hearted that I've done in the past and now the AG version with harvested yeast. Based on my OG and FG the ABV should be around 6.5%, just short of Bell's 7%.

And last, I ended up saving a bit of the yeast when i pitched so I can't wait to try her out again!

periwinkle1239 said:

Thought I would post one more time here since I was the OP. (not sure anyone really cares, except me)

My Bell's 2-hearted clone with harvested Bell's yeast has officially finished fermenting. It took a full two weeks and the airlock has essentially stopped, so I took one more gravity reading of 1.013. (I missed my 1.010 goal, but no sense in splitting hairs)

And also, the sample was absolutely amazing. This is by far the cleanest tasting brew I've ever made. It is a night and day difference between the extract 2-hearted that I've done in the past and now the AG version with harvested yeast. Based on my OG and FG the ABV should be around 6.5%, just short of Bell's 7%.

And last, I ended up saving a bit of the yeast when i pitched so I can't wait to try her out again!

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Congratulations! I'm not sure I would have had the patience for that.

Now that you have a batch fermented it's time to read up on yeast washing. You've gone to the work of multiplying from a very small source so why not harvest a bunch for later? You might even go as far as learning how to do slants.

periwinkle1239 said:

Thought I would post one more time here since I was the OP. (not sure anyone really cares, except me)

My Bell's 2-hearted clone with harvested Bell's yeast has officially finished fermenting. It took a full two weeks and the airlock has essentially stopped, so I took one more gravity reading of 1.013. (I missed my 1.010 goal, but no sense in splitting hairs)

And also, the sample was absolutely amazing. This is by far the cleanest tasting brew I've ever made. It is a night and day difference between the extract 2-hearted that I've done in the past and now the AG version with harvested yeast. Based on my OG and FG the ABV should be around 6.5%, just short of Bell's 7%.

And last, I ended up saving a bit of the yeast when i pitched so I can't wait to try her out again!

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scniiiice!

i'm about to make a starter using the dregs from bell's amber. searched just that here on HBT and found this thread!

i think i'm gonna go with three bottles into 250ml, stepping it up til i have 2L (no stirplate ) . MrMalty says i'll need 253bil cells for 5.25 gal of 1.07 wort. (my ipa is mid to high 1.060s) I figure i'll easily hit that cell count.

i'm looking forward to trying this. i've harvested yeast successfully from my own homebrew bottles as an experiment when i first got into making starters (1056 & 1272), but i've never tried with commercial brews. from what i've read and seen on this thread, there's good results to be had from getting bell's yeast this way.

yay, beer!

so after slowly building up my starter, i pitched it into an IPA yesterday. there were signs of activity in the carboy w/in a few hours and this morning it's chugging away quite nicely. i'm wondering if the yeast Bell's uses may be one of the Whitbread strains. the smell and flavor of the starter beer reminded me very much of my last starter for my english brown that was 1098. also the krausen looks very similar to those i've seen fermenting with 1098.

I don't know which strain or mutated strain it is. But I know I like it! Excellent flavor. My pale ale is over half gone, and the 2 Hearted IPA is almost done carbing in bottles.

My only complaint is that it seems to take awhile to drop. I used gelatin for the first time in the IPA, so we'll see if that cleared it up.

solbes said:

My only complaint is that it seems to take awhile to drop. I used gelatin for the first time in the IPA, so we'll see if that cleared it up.

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yeah, i'm not concerned about the strain if it makes a good beer. and if you're saying it takes it's sweet time to floc, then maybe it's something other that one of the whitbreads. either way, it's nice to know its a stubborn li'l floccer i'll be prepared to cold crash or add finings before dry hopping. thanks.

went from 1.065 to 1.013 in 8 days. still very cloudy, but that's to be expected. tastes amazing!

Gelatin worked awesome by the way. After 3 weeks in primary, I dropped it to around 38F for a day. Then added the gelatin and then waited another 2 days before bottling. I didn't think it worked all that great since it was still cloudy at bottling.

I was wrong, almost all of it dropped in the bottle. It stuck really nice to the bottom too. Hope yours turns out awesome too.

i'm currently dropping temps in the ferment chamber (swamp bucket) to the mid to low 50's to encourage the yeast to drop out some. it's been slowly clearing a bit over the last few days, and that was at 62 degrees. i'm trying to get the yeast to flocc as much as possible before i add the first round of dry hops. i'm dry hopping the whole batch with cascade for a week, bottling two gal and dry hopping the other three in separate jugs, one with each of the finishing hops (centennial, simcoe, and amarillo). i'm totally psyched to try the finished brew, the gravity sample today told me that it's gonna be a great IPA. :rockin:

NordeastBrewer77 said:

i'm currently dropping temps in the ferment chamber (swamp bucket) to the mid to low 50's to encourage the yeast to drop out some. it's been slowly clearing a bit over the last few days, and that was at 62 degrees. i'm trying to get the yeast to flocc as much as possible before i add the first round of dry hops. i'm dry hopping the whole batch with cascade for a week, bottling two gal and dry hopping the other three in separate jugs, one with each of the finishing hops (centennial, simcoe, and amarillo). i'm totally psyched to try the finished brew, the gravity sample today told me that it's gonna be a great IPA. :rockin:

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Brewed my TH clone today with Bell's yeast too. Missed my OG (still trying to get my efficiency numbers worked out) but it tasted good. I think a 1.055 OG all-Centennial IPA with Bell's yeast sounds mighty fine. I'm just trying to figure out the best temp to hold it at.

pabloj13 said:

Brewed my TH clone today with Bell's yeast too. Missed my OG (still trying to get my efficiency numbers worked out) but it tasted good. I think a 1.055 OG all-Centennial IPA with Bell's yeast sounds mighty fine. I'm just trying to figure out the best temp to hold it at.

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sure does! i fermented my IPA like i would with any other american yeast, i started it off around 62 and let it slowly rise up during ferment, it got itself up to around 65 and stayed there. i currently have it sitting at 66-67 one an once of cascades. i'll be bottling two gals on tuesday, the other three will get a second round of dry hops for a week.

NordeastBrewer77 said:

sure does! i fermented my IPA like i would with any other american yeast, i started it off around 62 and let it slowly rise up during ferment, it got itself up to around 65 and stayed there. i currently have it sitting at 66-67 one an once of cascades. i'll be bottling two gals on tuesday, the other three will get a second round of dry hops for a week.

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That's kinda what I was planning on shooting for. I think my efficiency problem came because the weight of the mash pushed my false bottom elbow into the bottom so I had to put pressure on the valve to get it to flow. I think I ended up getting some channeling since the grain bed got all jacked up. I'm thinking of cutting some good-sized slots in the elbow fitting so even if it presses on the bottom I still get flow.