Extract VS ALL GRAIN (Questions)

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davidamerica

davidamerica

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Extract VS All Grain Question

(Disclaimer I am trying to be somewhat funny here please relax before you read this UmKay?)

Since I started brewing beer which was not long ago it SEEMS as if there is sort of a “You are not worthy unless you go grain” mentality but I could be wrong. As I said it SEEMS.

I understand the differences between the 2 methods relatively speaking but is there a sort of rivalry between the two brewer types?

My friend, when I told him I brewed extracts treated me a bit differently than some of our mutual friends who are die hard grain brewers. I felt like the 3rd wheel as if my friend was saying “Yea guys, Dave still has his training wheels on so he won’t understand the methods we speak.”

As for me......I seek the knowledge….and someday I shall find!

In fairness, I have been wanting to try all grain to see what the “Other Side” does when it comes to brewing but have been reluctant because of time and apparent difficulty. I will try soon enough when I get more experience, not just yet.

One more tidbit, I noticed people talking about full boil in all grain vs. partial boil in extract. The water is either boiling or it isn’t am I right, so what does full boil mean? I brew extract and I boil the wort for 40 minutes just like the instructions ask and there is no mention to “partially boil the water” for 40 minutes. Just thought I would ask. Example: “Hey Bob, go ahead and partially park the car in the garage, when you get more driving experience I may let you fully park it in the garage.”

Yes, I am sarcastic but what better way for me to make a point than to have a little fun, right guys? Ok, for those with a case of “Serious Face” move on to my next point.

In closing I must say that all of the things I don’t understand may be “All Grain Brewer Talk” but help out a man in training wheels so to speak, tell me as an “All Grain Brewer” What are you thinking when you hear someone say, “I brew extract”…..

Does time stop?
Do you hear the infamous record scratch? Does color turn to black and white?
Does the “failure horn” from price is right ring in your heads?
Do you think THEY drive a Hyundai Accent and YOU drive the Beamer so it’s best we disassociate ourselves with the “Ill educated so called….eh hum……brewers of society?”

All in good fun peeps

Be honest people, don’t be afraid, and please for the love of Pete, shed some light on this important issue for me.

David America

"Keeping America strong by..... i dunno yet"
:mug:
 
I went from Extract to All Grain. It is Wonderful!

I went back to extract and specialty grains or a "Partial Mash" process that is less trouble and time than my AG brews were, but still gives me as much, if not more control than my AG brews were.

Your friend is unknowingly a *********.;)

Mash some grains in your bottling bucket, make a half assed AG batch, and you will have plenty of knowledge of sparging, mashing, FG, OG, "efficiency" and all the other OH SO complicated secrets that make your friend so much better than you.

Nothing wrong with either method.
 
extract and all grain produce the same beer.
only difference is most people start out extract. so alot of extract brews dont reach their full potential. people blame it on the extract as opposed to the learning curve..

:mug:
 
My initial reaction when I meet an enthusiastic extract brewer is to mentor them in the ways of all grain. When they turn down the invite, I try again in 3 months. If there is still no interest, I drop it.

Note, a full boil means "full volume" boil. In other words, you start with enough volume such that you boil down to the final batch volume rather than top up in the fermenter with plain water.
 
I'm certainly not the best source, I've only been doing all grain for less than a year, but I will admit, after having done it, my biggest thought was, why didn't I do this sooner? It does make extract brewing feel like "training wheels" like you mentioned, but at the same time, I see nothing wrong with doing extract either. My main reason for going all grain was cost. Some of the equipment I was able to craft together for cheap, so the investment it took to switch seemed worth while in the long run. All grain does give a different way of thinking, but when it comes to brewing, if you're just trying to have fun, do what provides the most fun! All grain has more work involved, but I feel like the extra work just makes the final product taste all the better. Brewing is a lot of fun however you do it, having the options makes it all the more appealing. But no, to wrap things up, I don't think there's superiority to it, just a better understanding of the bigger picture. I've also had the same thoughts you mentioned here in the past, but ultimately the beers are all fun to make and taste amazing so it's hard to argue.
 
I started with extract and moved to partial mash after 4 batches. Last night I just tried my second partial mash I brewed and it is by far the best beer I have made. I plan on going all grain next brew as I am almost finished with my single tier brew rig. As far as looking down on people for only brewing extract I could give a **** less how they make beer. I see it as this, who am I to judge how people make their beer. I want to go all grain to see if I can make a better beer.

In regards to partial boil, it means the amount of water you boil. Partial is typically around 3.5 gallons and you top off when your done with water. Full boil there is no topping off with water you typically boil around 6.5 gallons that boils down to 5-5.5 in the end.
 
I just made the move to AG. However, I see nothing wrong with doing extract batches. I will continue to do so in the future if I don't have time to do an AG batch. Talking down to someone because they are using extract just seems silly and immature. Aren't we all on the same side? Keep doing extract batches. Keep doing what you are doing if it works for you. Forget about what anyone else says. This is about what you like to do, not them. If you don't want to make that leap to AG or you aren't ready, then keep on brewing extract. I've had extract brews that are just as good as AG.
 
Rowdy said:
extract and all grain produce the same beer.
only difference is most people start out extract. so alot of extract brews dont reach their full potential. people blame it on the extract as opposed to the learning curve..

:mug:
Click to expand...

I agree that most negative flavors in beginner beer is unfairly fully attributed to the fact that extract was used but I don't agree that you can make the same beer with either method. It's more nuanced than that and certainly depends on what style you're talking about. Again though, I know I can make GOOD extract beer having brewed all grain for a while. It's more about process.
 
Having brewed GREAT beer AG and GREAT beer extract, and OK beer AG and OK beer extract, I do whichever fits my parameters as far as time, budget, and lazyness.

By this point, I will make Fantastic beer either way.
 
I've only done all grain brewing--the only thing I've used extract for is making starters. For me, brewing beer is just as much about the process as it is the final product. I wanted to take part in an age old tradition, and I felt that extract brewing is not that.

But for each his own.
 
Well I certainly don't take or give any attitude when it comes to all-grain vs. extract. I've done both. I know lots of brewers who do both on a regular basis. I think the "stigma" comes from the fact that most new brewers start out with extract. It takes less investment in equipment and you can get more consistent results right out of the gate.

There are, however, plenty of experienced brewers who do extract. Extract makes for a much shorter brew day. Sometimes we just don't have time for a 4-6 hour brew day, but can squeeze in 2 hours. But that doesn't mean that extract brews are not as good as all-grain, or that those brewers aren't as good or knowledgeable in the craft.

I decided to go all grain because I have the luxury having enough time and because I wanted to learn more about brewing.

As for the full boil thing: they mean full volume boils. It means using enough water in your boil to get all of your wort at the end instead of topping off the fermenter with water to reach your final volume. It's generally agreed that you get better quality this way, but requires a bigger boil kettle.
 
I just did my first "All Grain" batch with a BIAB method a couple of weeks ago. It really wasn't any more difficult or time-consuming than the extract batches I've done. The only thing I had to do differently was deal with more grain in a bigger bag, and do a few extra calculations to get my water to the correct temperature, which I wouldn't bother doing with an extract batch. I also underestimated how much of the water I initially put in my pot wanted to stay with the grains after I took the bag out, so there was quite a bit of squeezing involved getting that stuff out of there.

I think my extract beers are great, though, and my AG brew didn't taste much different going into the fermenter then a similar extract brew I had made a while back. The only real attraction I have to AG brewing is the fact that I can save a few bucks per batch, and that I can use a few types of specialty malt that I couldn't use before.
 
When someone tells me they are an extract brewer I USUALLY get them in some sort of arm lock before forcing them down against the hood of my car, or up against a wall, or any suitably hard surface, before berating them, "Hey, look at the little sissy boy. He to wittle and stupid to do all-gwain!!!" I follow up with a quick kick in their posterior and walk off laughing. I then go home, turn out all the lights, and cry in a corner while sipping one of my extract beers and wonder why I hate myself. Again, this is what I usually do, but not always.

I think, I'll brew an extract beer on Friday...wait, did I just type that?!?!
 
Bobby_M said:
I agree that most negative flavors in beginner beer is unfairly fully attributed to the fact that extract was used but I don't agree that you can make the same beer with either method. It's more nuanced than that and certainly depends on what style you're talking about. Again though, I know I can make GOOD extract beer having brewed all grain for a while. It's more about process.
Click to expand...
thats kinda what i was getting at.
of course with ag you can tweak everything much further.
 
What are you thinking when you hear someone say, “I brew extract”…..
Click to expand...

Cool, you're a home brewer too! (That is what I would think.)

People make great spaghetti out of a can of Ragu. I don't turn my nose up at them either. I enjoy their pasta.
 
The more you learn the more you realize how much you don't know. Generally speaking, switching from extract to all-grain brewing involves more learning which leads to the realization of all that is yet to learn. I have no idea where I'm going with this.
 
When someone tells me they do extract I assume they haven't been brewing very long. Extract does have it's advantages especially given time and equipment restraints but I think if someone has brewing long enough they usually find ways to overcome these obstacles. All grain is about control, extract is about ease of use. There are some beer styles where you can make just as good a beer using extract and there are some styles where you can't. Obviously you are thinking about moving on to all grain because you have been brewing long enough that you also want to make the move. I doubt you will regret it, you will make great beer, and mashing grains is really very easy.
 
Shooter said:
When someone tells me they are an extract brewer I USUALLY get them in some sort of arm lock before forcing them down against the hood of my car, or up against a wall, or any suitably hard surface, before berating them, "Hey, look at the little sissy boy. He to wittle and stupid to do all-gwain!!!" I follow up with a quick kick in their posterior and walk off laughing. I then go home, turn out all the lights, and cry in a corner while sipping one of my extract beers and wonder why I hate myself. Again, this is what I usually do, but not always.

I think, I'll brew an extract beer on Friday...wait, did I just type that?!?!
Click to expand...

DEAR GOD, lol.....I think I peed myself a little. Not at all like me. Good laugh sir! Thank you!
 
rjwhite41 said:
When someone tells me they do extract I assume they haven't been brewing very long. Extract does have it's advantages especially given time and equipment restraints but I think if someone has brewing long enough they usually find ways to overcome these obstacles. All grain is about control....................
Actually.......never heard an extract brewer say that their efficiency was low.;) extract has more "control" in that respect.

With ONLY pale DME (from pretty consistent 2 row malt) and specialty grains and adjuncts as would be used in AG, (and a little sodium bicarbonate in dark beers to approximate AG PH levels) I have as much control as any AG brewer who didn't grow, malt, and store his own grains.

I did AG, great as it is, if I can make beer just as well with quality pale DME, I am ok with a little bit more cost. I never have to post about low efficiency either.

:mug:
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Actually.......never heard an extract brewer say that their efficiency was low. extract has more "control" in that respect.
Click to expand...

I have. It is then explained to them that they didn't mix their top off water enough and that they didn't have anything to do with the efficiency in the first place.
 
cheezydemon3 said:
DEAR GOD, lol.....I think I peed myself a little. Not at all like me. Good laugh sir! Thank you!
Click to expand...

Hey, just a slice of my life. :D

Oh, uh, and regarding that extract brew I mentioned. CLEARLY, I meant all-grain. I brew ALL-GRAIN now people, say it with me. I would never stoop to enjoying the simple pleasure of an extract batch... I 'sniff',...yeah 'sniff'... damn...I'm, I'm um sorry, it must be allergy season...I mean 'sniff', OH GAWD this is hard!!

Okay, okay, deep breath Shooter, deep breath. One of God's creatures and everything...

I BREW ALL-GRAIN!!! End of story!

Bask in the glory that is me!!! ;)
 
I do all grain now because I like it and I like the hobby part of brewing.
I would only say extract is fine for most beer styles but lighter beers. If you use LME then I think you get too many caramel flavorings. With L-DME it is better.
I find it harder to make a dry stout with LME compared to all grain and mashing at lower temps to keep un-fermentable sugars low.

Either way, both are good. I think the brewer makes it great.
 
[/quote]Actually.......never heard an extract brewer say that their efficiency was low.;) extract has more "control" in that respect.

With ONLY pale DME (from pretty consistent 2 row malt) and specialty grains and adjuncts as would be used in AG, (and a little sodium bicarbonate in dark beers to approximate AG PH levels) I have as much control as any AG brewer who didn't grow, malt, and store his own grains.

I did AG, great as it is, if I can make beer just as well with quality pale DME, I am ok with a little bit more cost. I never have to post about low efficiency either.

:mug:[/QUOTE]

I never said anything about extract brewers having efficiency problems. They can calculate their efficiency almost perfectly for every batch. However, with AG I can control FG better than an extract brewer and I can control flavor better than an extract brewer. It opens up a world that extract just can't touch due to how extract is made. I can change the fermentability of the "extract" I create through my mash procedures and an extract brewer cannot. Now if only I could grow and malt my own grains...:D
 
I have not brewed all that many batches, but I'm leaning toward smaller AG batches that I can comfortably boil on my stove. Why? I hate dealing with extract. DME sticks to whatever it's in and I have to stir stir stir the heck out of it to unclump it. LME isn't as annoying but it's expensive. However, I will probably brew my PM "Dead Guy" clone again as a PM because it turned out so darn good.
I guess I'm a process geek. Brewing is like baking bread or making preserves (for me) - it's all about enjoying the process as well as the end result. Doing smaller AG batches have allowed me to move to AG (BIAB) without having to invest in more equipment, or burning down the back porch with a turkey fryer.
 
I brewed a few extract batches before I decided I'd rather "brew" beer than "assemble" beer. I felt like with extract, someone else did half of it already. With extract, you'll never know the joys of the not so subtle differences between all the different malts. I don't think I've ever seen a Maris Otter extract, for example. I'm a snob. A purist you could say. I just think there's something magical about going from grain to glass the way it's been done for centuries. I don't get partial mash either. Seems like that's as much work as all grain.
 
SpanishCastleAle said:
The more you learn the more you realize how much you don't know. Generally speaking, switching from extract to all-grain brewing involves more learning which leads to the realization of all that is yet to learn. I have no idea where I'm going with this.
Click to expand...

That's where I am. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know. Just as I'm comfortable with one thing, I learn something new. I'm still not comfortable with water chemistry, but I'm trying to absorb more.

I would never "talk down" to a new brewer, an extract brewer, an older brewer, an AG brewer, a nanobrewer, etc. I mean, we're all in the same boat, making beer, and it's all good. Well, except for those "Kit & a kilo" beers. Those are nasty. :D
 
To be clear, how many of you extract brewers use at least some steeping grains? I've been reading Designing Great Beers, where Daniels look at what a bunch of Homebrewers of the Year used in their recipes. The majority used at least some extract, but a majority also used at least steeping grains.
 
I started brewing about 8 months ago and did two extract batches then switch to an all grain set up. I built a cooler MLT and do a lot of heavy lifting to make 5 gallons of beer. I have on several occasions thought about just doing extract batches again. Now seeing some of the BIAB stuff it makes me think this is a really good compromise. You get all the flexibility of all grain but you can use a single pot or maybe a pot and a bucket - any way you slice it = much less equipment and cleanup.
 
As far as the final product goes, you can make great beers either way. AG or PM both end up giving you more flexibility and control over your brew when that is what you desire. Extract helps cut out a few steps and simplifies the process, but also limits you a bit more. The unfortunate fact of extract brewing is the limitation of base malt extracts available.

Either way it only depends on what you are looking to get out of the process, and what you are attempting to make. Personally I do PM because that is what I'm comfortable with. When I want to experiment again I'll probably attempt an AG method similar to DethBrewer's. I would check out his Easy Stovetop PM sticky here in the beginners forum, and his Easy All Grain thread as they give a great insight as to how easy it really can be. Easy All Grain found below.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/
 
All grain is great because it's cheaper and you have a lot of control over what is going on (or is that sometimes a bad thing ;) ).

Extract is great because it takes a lot less time and there is less that you can screw up.
 
gabeweisz said:
All grain is great because it's cheaper and you have a lot of control over what is going on (or is that sometimes a bad thing ;) ).

Extract is great because it takes a lot less time and there is less that you can screw up.
Click to expand...

Cost is a big reason i brew AG, its much cheeper.

But you can brew just as good of a brew with extract with a full volume boil IMO
 
davidamerica said:
Extract VS All Grain Question tell me as an “All Grain Brewer” What are you thinking when you hear someone say, “I brew extract”…..
Click to expand...

I don't think anything. Not everyone has the time or room to brew all grain.

I started out as an extract brewer but have nothing but time, so I switched. :)
 

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