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I used make these as wort kits in Australia and it makes a difference when your packaging 400 liters of wort compared to 20 liters

True. did you let the cubes cool "on their own" or use refrigeration? I've been thinking of throwing mine into the fridge once it gets below 120 or so. No real reason, just if I want to brew in the morning and pitch yeast the same night.
 
Here's a thought: I've got an extra corny. Suppose I could use it as my no chill vessel instead of buying a plastic one. Could also get all the air out by covering with a layer of CO2 that way.
 
We would pack them in the van after they got packed at the microbrewey (poor driver) who would bring them to the warehouse the next day and some of the Sydney homebrew retailers would get warm wort kits if they where delivered the next day .We did store them in the walk in cooler after couple of days to keep them fresh .

You want them at pasteurization temperatures as long as possible and 122 is the lowest .Cold crashing wont hurt below 122F .I would recommend you store the wort as cold as possible so it retains its freshness .
 
Here's a thought: I've got an extra corny. Suppose I could use it as my no chill vessel instead of buying a plastic one. Could also get all the air out by covering with a layer of CO2 that way.

A corny is fine as long as you put some head presssure (22 psi) in the vessel so the keg doesn't suck air in from the connections .
 
I just received my cylindrical Winpak and it seems that there will definitely bit a small amount of headspace because the very top of the container is a bit higher than the neck, meaning it's not possible to fill completely full. That doesn't seem good. I know I will get some shrinkage on cooling, but i'd be surprised if all the airspace disappears.



Do the cubes or another container have better dimensions to allow them to be filled 100% full for zero dead airspace?
 
I've no-chilled in a corny keg. As described, fill it, cap it, and pressurize it. I fill it to just below the gas-in dip tube, then pressurize.

Watch out for the sides once you fill it. Since a corny has thin walls, it gets HOT on the sides.

I've since switched to 6 gallon winpaks, because I like to finish with a filled corny. Using one as a no-chill vessel means you get about 4-1/2 gallons out once you account for trub/break losses.
 
I just received my cylindrical Winpak and it seems that there will definitely bit a small amount of headspace because the very top of the container is a bit higher than the neck, meaning it's not possible to fill completely full. That doesn't seem good. I know I will get some shrinkage on cooling, but i'd be surprised if all the airspace disappears.



Do the cubes or another container have better dimensions to allow them to be filled 100% full for zero dead airspace?

All of the HDPE containers that I have (6 variations IIRC) are oversized just a bit.

That said, you can squeeze out any airspace easy enough. Just fill with hot wort, put the cube against something solid, slowly push out the air and cap.

If I'm going to pitch within a day or three, I don't bother to bleed out the air.
 
I've no-chilled in a corny keg. As described, fill it, cap it, and pressurize it. I fill it to just below the gas-in dip tube, then pressurize.

Watch out for the sides once you fill it. Since a corny has thin walls, it gets HOT on the sides.

I've since switched to 6 gallon winpaks, because I like to finish with a filled corny. Using one as a no-chill vessel means you get about 4-1/2 gallons out once you account for trub/break losses.

Given your fill level, are you saying you loose roughly a gallon from trub and break losses?

-From your previous post it sounds like the trub volume was roughly a gallon and due to hot break and hops...
 
Ok,
I have read the thread and I am ready to take the plunge. I have three concerns for the Czech Pils I am going to brew.

1: DMS I plan to boil 90-100 minutes. I didn't see any follow-up posts confirming no DMS in an all-pils bill. Can anyone confirm?

2: Cold-break suspension: Is it true that chill-haze is the only concern with cold-break? No off-flavors? I plan to pitch 24 hours after cooling. I gather that Pol doesn't worry about cold-break at all, and has some pretty clear beer. Should I have other concerns about fermenting the cold-break?

3:FWH: I have one 10 minute aroma addition. If I want to use Pol's adjustments, I would add the hops to the wort after first runnings. I would also adjust the quantity of hops so that the IBU's contributed from a 10 minute boil (in a full-chill method) match a 20 minute boil (from the FWH). Is that correct?

Thanks very much for the help. I really detest getting a siphon going through my CFC. It is my least favorite, and longest part of my brew day. Nothing would make me happier than selling that damned thing.
 
Just for fun I did a 45 minute boil to see if I could get DMS using pilsner malt (I think I used Weyermann). It was a smash using 8lbs pilsner malt, saaz and fermented with Wyeast 2112 (Steam). Keep in mind that I'm no BJCP judge but there was nothing close to a cooked corn or cooked vegetable flavor that I could detect. I boiled off a gallon of water in that 45 mins. I think that's more boil-off than most people get so YMMV.

Keep in mind I was intentionally playing with fire. Don't expect not to get burned just because I didn't. There's nothing wrong with taking your time on a 90min boil.
 
I only boil for 60 minutes. I've made porters and pale/amber ales and they are very good beers. No odd/off flavors that I or my friends can detect.
 
I just went to WalMart, after looking everywhere and found these:
Reliance 7 gallon Jugs
for 10 bucks!

They seem somewhat flexible and I think they'll work to ferment directly in.
 
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Noisy123, please let us know how these work out for you. I "no-chilled" in a bucket on my recent Sierra Torpedo IPA clone, but I think I'd like to have something like this for "no-chilling".
 
I just went to WalMart, after looking everywhere and found these:
Reliance 7 gallon Jugs
for 10 bucks!

They seem somewhat flexible and I think they'll work to ferment directly in.

It'll probably work. 2 things to check for:
1) The container needs to be HDPE, not LDPE. (It'll be labeled somewhere on the container.) It's probably HDPE... but if it's LDPE, your hot wort will melt it like the Wicked Witch of the West.
2) The container in the link has an air valve. These can sometimes allow air to enter, which is not good for no-chill. To ensure the container is air tight, fill it half full of hot tap water, bleed some of the air out to the point where the sides concave in a bit and cap it. When it cools it should continue to collapse. If it doesn't, it's not air tight and should not be used for no-chill.
 
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I just went to WalMart, after looking everywhere and found these:
Reliance 7 gallon Jugs
for 10 bucks!

They seem somewhat flexible and I think they'll work to ferment directly in.

I also went with these for no chill. Working great for me. I have not fermented in it yet, but a stopper will fit into the 1/2nptf hole in the lid. I pour my wort to a carbouy to help airate.
Cheers:mug:
 
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I also went with these for no chill. Working great for me. I have not fermented in it yet, but a stopper will fit into the 1/2nptf hole in the lid. I pour my wort to a carbouy to help airate.
Cheers:mug:

Oh, forgot to mention.......Make sure the airhole plug is super tight and sqeeze out all the air with your knees before sealing.
 
I have used these as well. I read that someone had problems with air leaking through the spigot so I replaced it with a pvc plug with iron pipe threads. After pitching I just replaced the plug with the drilled stopper and put my airlock in. Worked great. I had to buy a #5 stopper since the normal ones for carboys are too big...

I have pitched and fermented in these vessels and everything is bubbling along.
 
Wow. This is an EPIC thread. A few things on my mind:

1) This works, and it can be done in spite of what some may say. I love mythbusting!:mug:

2) In spite of being listed as food grade, HDPE WILL ABSOLUTELY release harmful chemicals into the beer if heated. You may not be able to detect them by taste and smell, but I can guarantee there are carcinogens going into your beer. Caveat Emptor.

3) Due in part to #2, I'm not sure enough attention has been given to corny kegs. There have been some fantastic threads done on this, here's one:https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/closed-system-pressurized-fermentation-technique-44344/

I envision a "hybrid" procedure incorporating the best of several recently popularized (and proven) techniques:

A) Possibly do a BIAB No-Sparge. Or sparge if you want to. Whatever.
B) Do No-Chill as described in this thread, paying special attention to limiting transfer of hop matter.
C) Transfer to a sanitized corny, and allow to cool. Pop the pressure relief valve "up", or slightly loosen your gas-in post, or pressurize with CO2. Whatever. If you think 4.5 gals isn't enough beer, then use a quarter keg.
D) When cool, pitch the RWS in the same corny. Add Fermcap, and use a blowoff.
E) Attach spunding valve after fermentation settles a bit, as described in closed fermentation thread.
F) Crash cool and transfer crystal clear, already fermented beer to a sanitized keg (with herb balls for dry-hopping, if you wish).
G) Attach dirty keg(s) to a doc n' tasty style keg cleaner.
H) Drink your beer like prohibition starts tomorrow.:mug:
 
Scuba,
This is definitely not a pissing match, because I am brand new to no-chill and just trying to find out what is simple and works. I am just asking what sort of backup or documentation you have for point #2 about chemicals from HDPE. If it's true and supportable, i will probably try to go another route (like corny's.) But I am just trying to find what the facts are.

Please share if you have some good info to support that point.

Thanks,
Jason
 
2) In spite of being listed as food grade, HDPE WILL ABSOLUTELY release harmful chemicals into the beer if heated. You may not be able to detect them by taste and smell, but I can guarantee there are carcinogens going into your beer. Caveat Emptor.

I respectfully disagree...


http://www.bukisa.com/articles/124904_plastics-recycling-numbers-on-the-bottoms-of-containers-are-resin-id-codes-what-they-mean-and-how-to-use-them-for-safety-and-recycling


www.hubplastics.com/sections/.../HP50-25-155_msds.pdf

#2 – HDPE (high-density polyethylene) is the opaque plastic used for milk jugs; juice bottles, bottles for bleach, detergent, household cleaners, shampoo, some trash and shopping bags, motor oil bottles, small tubs for butter and yogurt, and cereal box liners. A more stable plastic than PET, it is thought to be safe from carcinogens or hormone-disrupting chemicals. Used for the heavier jug-type containers for laundry detergent, cat litter, and bleach, it is also made into toys, piping, plastic lumber, and rope. Recycled HDPE is in fairly strong demand by manufacturers. Clear HDPE can be reused for new containers, but the colored is generally recycled for plastic lumber. Indestructible Tyvek mailing envelopes and white contamination suits are made from a form of HDPE, but are impossible to recycle.
 
I knew without a doubt I would get "in trouble" for #2 :D

FWIW I'm not condemning anyone for using "cubes", they're awesome. This is a fantastic method, and I am all about dispelling myths, assumptions, and generally uninformed opinions in the brewing community (and society in general). I just think corny's should be given a closer look, we already have them, and they are indestructable, affordable, multitaskers that can ferment, age, carbonate, and serve. Plus I don't want any more carcinogens getting in the way of my alcohol:D

Here's what I base my opinion from:

1) Above all, common sense. Plastics and many other substances in general may be food grade at low temp, but once heated, their molecular bonds begin to weaken and substrate chemicals are given off, if even in small amounts. The plastic vessel may maintain its general shape, and may also return to its original shape once cooled. This is what plastics and polymers do, and that is why we like them. But it's not a good idea to ingest food items that have been in contact with them when they have been in a highly "plastic" state. The FDA does not recommend that you heat foods in plastic vessels for this very reason.

2) The jury is still out on #2 HDPE, the FDA is currently doing a 5 year study that has not concluded. It will be a while before we get any major authority to release their findings because of the red tape and $$$ involved, but HPDE is currently considered safe for food AT LOW TEMP. It is not advised to heat foods in it. Here's an old, but still relevant article. See what it says about what goes into making HDPE: http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Dont-Buy-Plastics.htm Again, I am not an environmental nut, but I do care about mitigating risks whenever possible (after a few pints, all bets are off :) )

3) I have extensive medical and scientific education, which I will not go into for liability reasons. Again, this is in part what I have used to form MY opinion...it does not mean that you should do what I do because I have such training and education. This is my opinion based on available information.

I encourage everyone to seek their own answers from available evidence based research that is out there. I personally choose to "limit but not eliminate" the amount of heated plastic I use in my brewing, such as using silicon tubing versus braided vinyl.

All this is just one example of a potential risk I can control in my brewing process, others are using better bottles vs. glass, or using fermcap to prevent scalding myself. If you can prevent injury or illness in yourself & friends, why wouldn't you?

FWIW. IMHO. :mug:
 
You don't have to expose your hot wort to HDPE if you don't want to. You can simply put a decent lid on your stainless steel boil kettle at flameout and let it come to room temp before transfering to your choice of fermenters. You can't store wort for very long this way but its how I do my no chills and I like the process. I don't have cornies.
 
You don't have to expose your hot wort to HDPE if you don't want to. You can simply put a decent lid on your stainless steel boil kettle at flameout and let it come to room temp before transferring to your choice of fermenters. You can't store wort for very long this way but its how I do my no chills and I like the process. I don't have cornies.

You're completely right. We can go about brewing a million different ways...and you'll still make beer :) I just kinda think cornies are cool because they can do so many things.

Sorry guys, I really didn't want to make this thread about HDPE vs. stainless :eek: I was more interested in what you guys thought of the below process, which incorporates the use of a pressurized vessel, corny or otherwise and seems pretty slick to me:

I envision a "hybrid" procedure incorporating the best of several recently popularized (and proven) techniques:

A) Possibly do a BIAB No-Sparge. Or sparge if you want to. Whatever.
B) Do No-Chill as described in this thread, paying special attention to limiting transfer of hop matter.
C) Transfer to a sanitized corny, and allow to cool. Pop the pressure relief valve "up", or slightly loosen your gas-in post, or pressurize with CO2. Whatever. If you think 4.5 gals isn't enough beer, then use a quarter keg.
D) When cool, pitch the RWS in the same corny. Add Fermcap, and use a blowoff.
E) Attach spunding valve after fermentation settles a bit, as described in closed fermentation thread.
F) Crash cool and transfer crystal clear, already fermented beer to a sanitized keg (with herb balls for dry-hopping, if you wish).
G) Attach dirty keg(s) to a doc n' tasty style keg cleaner.
H) Drink your beer like prohibition starts tomorrow.

:mug:
 
So if one were to "no-chill" in their brew kettle with a decent fitting lid I assume you'd want to transfer to a fermentation vessel and pitch as soon as wort temp allowed?

What is the safest length of time you could let it go before pitching?

What room conditions should this "Brew Kettle Chill Vessel" full of wort be stored in? Just stick your kettle in the closet with a lid on?
 

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