Oktoberfest "Beer Tent Beer"

Anyone have any suggestions for an AG recipe for one of the beers they serve at Oktoberfest? If you've been, you realize what they serve doesn't really fit the style of Oktoberfest, more of a Helles. Should I just go with a slightly stronger helles? I thought the Spaten/HB/Augustiner/Hacker were all excellent, preferred those 4 over the Paulaner/Lowenbrau.
I realize I can't capture the "feel" of Oktoberfest with just a recipe, but this style of beer is my goal.
This is a great site btw, glad a buddy of mine recommended it.

I know what you are talking about and was unable to find any information about them. I think that the style started when people liked the flavor of the Oktoberfest and the crispness of the Helles, so they combined them. Or something like that...

I am pretty inexperienced with lagers. I just brewed my first O-fest and Helles this weekend, but I came up with this:

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Recipe: Wies'n bier
Brewer: Justin S. Talbot
Asst Brewer:
Style: Munich Helles
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 11.00 gal
Boil Size: 13.14 gal
Estimated OG: 1.056 SG
Estimated Color: 6.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 23.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
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Amount Item Type % or IBU
14 lbs Pilsner (Rahr 2 Row) (1.8 SRM) Grain 66.67 %
6 lbs 8.0 oz Munich Malt (Durst) (9.0 SRM) Grain 30.95 %
8.0 oz Carapils (Briess) (1.5 SRM) Grain 2.38 %

4.25 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [3.50 %] (60 min)Hops 23.5 IBU
0.25 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [3.50 %] (5 min) Hops 0.3 IBU

4 Pkgs Saflager W-34/70 (Fermentis #W-34/70) Lager Yeast


Mash Schedule: Hochkurz Decocotion
Total Grain Weight: 21.00 lb
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Hochkurz Decocotion
Step Time Name Description Step Temp(F)
15 min Protein Rest Add 29.40 qt H2O @ 140.9 F 133.0
40 min Maltose Rest Add 8.40 qt of water at 187.5 F 144.0
40 min Dextrin Rest Decoct 9.13 qt of mash (thick) 158.0
8 min Mash out Decoct 9.04 qt of mash (thin) 169.0 F

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I haven't brewed this, but it about between a Helles and a Oktoberfestbier and looks pretty tasty to me.

If you brew one, please report back here with a review and some knowledge!

Welcome to the community

Thanks for the quick reply. Your recipe is about what I had in mind (cut in half for me). Of course I was looking for something tried and true, but I may just have to experiment, which is half the fun - just wish I had more time for brew days.

My first lager (a true Oktoberfest) is in the fermenter right now from a brew session last weekend. I thought I would have to have a dedicated fermentation fridge but thanks for the folks here at HBT, I picked up on the idea of putting the fermenter in the cooler. Swapping out a bit of ice every day isn't a pain and it keeps the temp at a nice 50 F.

Back to the original topic, I may just have to experiment some. I suppose if someone doesn't have a tried and true recommendation on here, it doesn't exist.

I couldn't even find specs for any of them. I don't think they even bottle that beer and sell it outside the fest?! At least I couldn't find any documentation.

Kaiser may know a bit about it, he is the resident German beer scholar.

What you're looking for is a Marzenbier.

Hacker-Pschorr Oktoberfest Amber Marzen
OG: 1.059-1.061
FG: 1.015-1.017
SRM: 15
IBU: 25
ABV: 5.7%
Extract

Heat 1 gal at 160F

Add:

12oz German Munich Malt
12oz Belgian Cara-Munich Malt
2oz Belgian Biscuit Malt
2oz Belgian Aromatic Malt

Remove from heat and steep at 150F for 30min.
Strain the grain water into brewpot.
Sparge grains with 1gal of 150F water, bring to boil and add:

3.5 lbs Bierkeller Light Malt Extract Syrup
3.75 ibs M & F Extra Light Dry Malt Extract
4oz Malto Dextrin
1oz Tettnanger @ 4%AA(4HBU) bittering hop
1oz German Hallertau Hersbrucker @ 3.7%AA(HBU) bittering hop

Add water to bring vol to 2.5gal, boil for 45 mins and add:

1 tsp Irish Moss
Boil 15min

Remove from heat and cool. Add water to bring vol to 5 1/8 gal. Pitch yeast once below 80F.

1st choice: Wyeast 2124 Bohemian Lager
2nd choice: Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager

Ferment in primary at 60-62F until action begins.
Cool primary to 47-52F for 7 days, rack to 2ndary.

Bottle when fermentation complete or target gravity reached (approx 5 wks).
Let prime at 70F for approx 3wks.

That is the recipe from "Beer Captured".

I think that book is an OK reference for a starting point but I seriously question some of their recipes.

99 - The beers the OP is talking about are not Maerzen beers (Oktoberfest). They are much lighter and drier, closer to a Helles than an O-fest. I have never seen one in a bottle or served anywhere other than on the Wies'n.

Thanks for the replies.

Kabouter, I think you're right, I don't think they bottle or really serve this beer outside the fest, so the specs are hard to come by. Maybe I'm overthinking it, I think your AG recipe is probably pretty close, the decoction would help with the maltiness, the color would probably be about right. I'll have to give it a try, report the results later. It'll be a little while, these aren't quick beers.

HB Bill, Have you made that recipe before? It sounds pretty good, but I'm not sure if I would call what they serve in the tents a true amber Marzen. If I'm not mistaken, you can find most of the "Big 6" beers over here in the states, their Marzens, but they really aren't what they're serving in the tents.

I'll probably start with a stronger helles and tweak from there. May take another "fact finding trip" to the Wiesn just to be sure.

I think the munich breweries have oktoberfest beer away from the fest, but it could be that they are selling off maerzen as festbeer. At the fest, my understanding was that they didn't serve "real" maerzen because it was a bit stronger and made people even crazier than they get anyway. I recall in Microbrewed Adventures, the Papazian book, he says that the fest beer now is more like Coors Golden Lager (or something?) than the original, darker, maerzen beers that were served at the fest.

See, now you're just trying to ruin it. Coors Golden Lager? This beer is maltier than anything Coors has ever made. I'd be willing to bet the gravities still match a Marzen, just a lighter, helles style instead.

what can i say, that's what papazian likens it to. i can't be doing with coors at all, it's the worst of the worst for me. fest beer, on the other hand, i've enjoyed a good amount of.

I have proven recipes for both an Octoberfast and a Helles that are real crown pleasers.

StoneHands said:

HB Bill, Have you made that recipe before? It sounds pretty good, but I'm not sure if I would call what they serve in the tents a true amber Marzen. If I'm not mistaken, you can find most of the "Big 6" beers over here in the states, their Marzens, but they really aren't what they're serving in the tents.

I'll probably start with a stronger helles and tweak from there. May take another "fact finding trip" to the Wiesn just to be sure.

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No, I haven't brewed that one yet...I know I don't have any of the Belgium grains on-hand.

I may go to the Wies'n with you...it's been a few years. I've been to the O'fest over 12 times. I went to one, 1975, I think 4 times...of course, I only lived 40 miles from Munich at the time. I lived in Germany for 9 years. The last one I went to was in 2003.

I'm not certain I know what you're referring to as a lighter festbier. Color me stupid...

When I get home at the weekend I'll look up the exact reference in the book.

The contention is that the breweries these days are brewing a lighter lager for the fest itself (still very full and malty by american mass market standards). When you see an "oktoberfest" beer from an american brewery (e.g. sam adams) it's generally darker than the beer you'd get at the fest.

I went to 13 fests and generally 10+ times per year. But then I lived in Munich at the time, I would have been rude not to make an effort when they'd gone to all that trouble. I don't think I'll go back - these days I'd prefer to be there sitting in a beer garden in august than trying to sneak in the back door of a tent in the rain in september.

homebrewer_99 said:

No, I haven't brewed that one yet.

I may go to the Wies'n with you...it's been a few years. I've been to the O'fest over 12 times. I went to one, 1975, I think 4 times...of course, I only lived 40 miles from Munich at the time. I lived in Germany for 9 years. The last one I went to was in 2003.

I'm not certain I know what you're referring to as a lighter festbier. Color me stupid...

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A group of my buddies have been going every year since 2003 (reservations help), I went in 2006 and 2007 - my second child has slowed me down a bit, but hope to go back in a year or two. I don't doubt your beer knowledge at all (and certainly not trying to infer that you're stupid), but if you look at what you buy in the bottle - Spaten for instance - it's definitely darker than what they serve in the tents. When I say "lighter", I'm really only referring to color.

OK, no problem...

Yeah, spring and summer fests are fun, but everyone should experience THE O'fest.

I've also been to 8 Mardi Gras...I need to put Rio on my bucket list...

Check out this post by Kaiser.

For a possible Stateside comparison, I recall buying bottles of Löwenbräu Oktoberfest a couple years ago that was the lightest colored Oktoberfestbier I've seen.

Wanted to follow up on a 9 month old thread I started (and talk about my somewhat poor progress). Since the beginning of this thread, I've made a Marzen that was absolutely fantastic, but not really what they serve. I also made my first stab at what I thought would be about right for the "beer tent beer". For a 6 gallon batch, my grain bill was simple: 7 lbs pils, 6 lbs light munich. I managed to pick up some Hofbrau Oktoberfest, which I think is the lightest in color of the beers they serve there, for a comparison. I opened both tonight: http://picasaweb.google.com/robvermillion/BeerTentBeer# (sorry for my low post count and lack of ability to post pics).

The darker beer is my version, the lighter is the Hofbrau. Mine was excellent, but not what I was shooting for. I guess the 80%pils/20% munich that I've heard since then might be closer. Obviously I way overshot the color, the gravity was higher than intended (ended up 1.062 OG). I'll keep trying, sorry I'm slow.

I've also had a few of the stateside versions since then. I've had the Paulaner, Hofbrau, and Spaten Oktoberfests in the bottle over here. I've yet to see the other 3 (I don't think you can actually get true Augustiner in the US). Of the 3 I've had, the Spaten that they serve in the tents does not match the bottled version, Hofbrau and Paulaner do.

I also can't seem to get the "crispness" for lack of a better term, that the German beers have, I don't think I'm the only one with this problem. Don't get me wrong, the beers have been great, but not quite up to what I had in Germany. Not sure if it's my water, my techniques, or lack of 900 years of brewing experience. Any help is appreciated.

I also can't seem to get the "crispness" for lack of a better term, that the German beers have, I don't think I'm the only one with this problem. Don't get me wrong, the beers have been great, but not quite up to what I had in Germany. Not sure if it's my water, my techniques, or lack of 900 years of brewing experience. Any help is appreciated.

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IME/IMO, yeast makes a big difference in lagers. Not only yeast strain but yeast health, pitching rate, and temperature. Notice that Kabouter's recipe on page 1 (which looks great BTW) has 4 packages of W34/70 dry yeast for a 1.056 OG brew. Also, any amount of diacetyl is going to make it seem less crisp (so pitch cold, ferment cold, and maybe do a diacetyl rest). Other than that; patience, patience, patience.

EDIT: Also, I would use a good continental Pils malt as the base. Not US Pils.

SpanishCastleAle said:

Notice that Kabouter's recipe on page 1 (which looks great BTW) has 4 packages of W34/70 dry yeast for a 1.056 OG brew.

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Well, that's for an 11 gallon batch. It's actually on the low end of Fermentis' recommended pitch rate. They recommend as much as 5 packets per 5 gallons (converted from g/hL).

That being said, with the price per packet going up, to me that's crazy talk. I'll continue to use 2 per carboy and I'm happy with the beers I get from that. Otherwise, it's starts to become more cost effective to buy WLP830 and make starters.

Yea you're right, W34/70 dry is quite expensive for dry. I like to have some on hand 'just in case' but typ use liquid.

Thanks for getting back to us!!!

I think the crispness is the the attenuation. These beers need to be very dry.

I agree with Mensch, anything over 2 (11g) packets per 5g and it is more cost effective to make a starter.

I am going to brew one of these for my O-fest this year. I will try the 80/20 suggested by Stone hands and report back.... much later

I pitched a pretty good starter (2L) from one WLP 838 vial. Pitched it at 50F. It attenuated pretty well, went down to 1.016, but I did have a day or two that got close to 60F before it was done, I think days 5&6 after pitching (had an issue with temp control). Starter was probably still too small, and it did get warm. I'll adjust my starter size and do a better job at keeping it cool. My next attempt will be the 80/20 pils/munich and shoot for a gravity around 1.055 or 1.057.

Appreciate the replies everyone, nice to know that there is a bit of interest in this from others.

EDIT: I used Weyermann malts, usualy do.
BK, I'd be careful brewing this as your only Ofest, it's not what people expect, although I think it's excellent.

I was just looking at some notes from a German Pils I brewed last year. I pitched 2 packets W-34/70 per carboy. OG = 1.045, rehydrated yeast pitched cold (51°F). Lag time was <16 hrs. FG was 1.011. That's nearly 76% attenuation (and compared to my typical attenuations, that's good for me). My mash regime was 142°F = 45 min., 158°F = 30 min., mash out at 168°F = 10 min.

Beer tasted great and I'll be brewing that again soon. I'm going to stick with 2 packets W-34/70 per carboy.

StoneHands said:

I pitched a pretty good starter (2L) from one WLP 838 vial. Pitched it at 50F. It attenuated pretty well, went down to 1.016, but I did have a day or two that got close to 60F before it was done, I think days 5&6 after pitching (had an issue with temp control). Starter was probably still too small, and it did get warm. I'll adjust my starter size and do a better job at keeping it cool. My next attempt will be the 80/20 pils/munich and shoot for a gravity around 1.055 or 1.057.

Appreciate the replies everyone, nice to know that there is a bit of interest in this from others.

EDIT: I used Weyermann malts, usualy do.
BK, I'd be careful brewing this as your only Ofest, it's not what people expect, although I think it's excellent.

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Looks to me that you have it figured out. If you want to get rid of any of that yucky darker version I'll be glad to pick it up as my bro lives in B'ham! Your pics made me thirsty. I may have to try this as I have not done a lager since going all grain but it is on my to-do list. I'll have to stick to well modified malts though so mine won't be truly authentic but then I would'nt know as I've never been to Oktoberfest.

Regards,
Alan

StoneHands said:

BK, I'd be careful brewing this as your only Ofest, it's not what people expect, although I think it's excellent.

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Yeah, I brew a regular Maerzenbier, a Helles, hopefully this Weis'n this year, and a ale tap. Usually I have a couple different ales that I cycle throughout the day/night. I also have Apfelwein on tap!

I can't wait, September is almost here!!!

I am gonna be brewing up my first lager this coming week for Oktoberfest and will be using one of the suggestions here, I gotta do some thinking and hopefully settle on a recipe and a solid gameplan.

menschmaschine said:

I was just looking at some notes from a German Pils I brewed last year. I pitched 2 packets W-34/70 per carboy. OG = 1.045, rehydrated yeast pitched cold (51°F). Lag time was <16 hrs. FG was 1.011. That's nearly 76% attenuation (and compared to my typical attenuations, that's good for me). My mash regime was 142°F = 45 min., 158°F = 30 min., mash out at 168°F = 10 min.

Beer tasted great and I'll be brewing that again soon. I'm going to stick with 2 packets W-34/70 per carboy.

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I was going to post earlier that I typ shoot for ~76% attenuation on many German lagers.

I'm doing a Marzen this weekend using a washed cake (some of it, saving the rest in mason jars) of Staropramen yeast used for a Brooklyn Lager-ish type of brew. I intend to do a Hockhurz infusion mash with temps/times very similar to yours. It's a double-brew day so a decoction seems a little much.

So far this is the closest thread to anything I am looking for. The Augustiner Oktoberfestfier is what i am truly after for a friend's birthday. I really want to thank you for all the info here, I just need to figure out which one of these will be the closest.

On a side note, there is 1 distributor in the US that will bring in authentic Augustiner beers. They are in Eau Clare, WI. It is very expensive though. Almost $18 for a 6 pack but worth every penny.

You know, it's funny that the Festbier from each of the Big 6 breweries is similar, but they are very different as well. You'll get a good beer if you try the 80/20 pils/munich recipe, and try to get good attenuation. It won't be Augustiner but it'll be close. A good 2 month lagering helps it too I think. Good luck brewing.

Interesting about the one distributor. I'd buy a couple of sixers if I could.

I'll get the name of the place from my roommate.

I brewed an 80/20 Pils/Munich with a touch of melanoidin malt on 3/6/10, I pitched a huge decanted Wyeast 2206 stirplate starter, fermentation took off in 6 hours and chugged along nicely at 50° for 3 weeks before terminal FG was reached, dropped temp slowly to lagering temp over a week and a half, once it dropped clear I racked to a keg for long term lagering. (I will post up OG and FG numbers once I get home tonight) After all is said and done I hope this one is amazing come Oktoberfest!

**recipe was 8lb pils, 2lb dark munich, .25lb carapils, and 3oz melanoidin malt, 2oz hallertauer at FWH. OG was 1.057, FG was 1.010 for 5.5 gallons**

I was gonna brew a true Oktoberfest next weekend but have decided to try a tent beer. Not going for quite as dry as some. My tent-ative recipe is pretty much like the others itt:

5.5 gal
OG = 1.054
FG = 1.012-1.013
IBU = 22-24
Color =~6 SRM

6 lb German Pils
3 lb Munich Type I (6*L)
.5 Aromatic (19*L)
.5 Carafoam

1.25 oz Tettnanger 4.1% @ 60 min
.5 oz Mittlefruh 3.0% @ 18 min
.5 oz Mittlefruh 3.0% @ 6 min

~400mL washed slurry Wyeast Danish Lager yeast harvested 2 days prior

That looks pretty good to me. What mash temp(s) are you planning on shooting for? I did a 140 for 30 mins, then 158 for 30 mins the last time, it turned out well, but my grain bill was still too high on the Munich. This bill/hop schedule looks pretty good to me, let us know how it turns out. My next stab at it is going to have to wait until next month some time, won't know how it turns out until the fall.

StoneHands said:

That looks pretty good to me. What mash temp(s) are you planning on shooting for? I did a 140 for 30 mins, then 158 for 30 mins the last time, it turned out well, but my grain bill was still too high on the Munich. This bill/hop schedule looks pretty good to me, let us know how it turns out. My next stab at it is going to have to wait until next month some time, won't know how it turns out until the fall.

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Prob something like ~148* F for 20-25 min then 160* F for 30 min. Shooting for ~76% apparent attenuation.

I decided to try a quick sample to acess the flavor, WOW! Knowing that it is this good, its gonna be tough to stay out of it till Oktoberfest! **disconnects line from keg and tucks it to the back of the kegerator**

Awesome! To me, it seems the simplest grain bills produce the best beers. I can't wait until mine's done.

OK, one last "sample" for a photo op, the damned glass wouldnt stay clear of condensation long enough for a pic but it is read-through clear!! and YUP it still tastes awesome!