Avangard Pilsner Malt

thegreatmaibockaddict said:

You guys must have new fangled crushers! My 20 year old Malt Mill has a screw that you adjust, but you have to adjust by feel and results.

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I think my MM2 is like your maltmill in terms of adjustment. I need to use a feeler gauge to set it to the correct gap, at which point I tighten the thumb set screws to keep the gap where I want it.

stpug said:

My MM2 is set at .037 and I definitely get higher sugar extraction from this malt than say us 2row or golden promise. I also noticed that the husk attachment to the grain is not very strong, and that the grain tends to break up rather well. I didn't notice the grain size compared to other malts though. I'll need to look at that.

Are you seeing typical efficiencies or less?

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Typical but since I've been using it I switched my process a little... Going back to the original as soon as the weather can agree on what to do (brew outside). Still even at typical it's a good amount cheaper and I haven't noticed a difference in taste. I have a Hefe I did with M.O. and just did it with this grain, the yeast I think might be screwed so waiting to see if it calms down, that will determine if there's much taste difference which I doubt I'll find. I not too particular anyhow ha

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thegreatmaibockaddict said:

You guys must have new fangled crushers! My 20 year old Malt Mill has a screw that you adjust, but you have to adjust by feel and results.

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You can get a gap checker, one made for checking spark plugs and use that as your starting.

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theck said:

You can get a gap checker, one made for checking spark plugs and use that as your starting.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Home Brew mobile app

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Ooo. good idea, as I already got one!

I just saw that Label Peelers is carrying Avangard Pale Ale malt - anybody tried this one? I'm thinking of picking up a sack for use in American/British ales.

I am about to order a 55lb bag of pilsner, and label peelers is offering their entire stock at 22% off right now! just use code catch22 at checkout. This makes the 55lb bag only $39!

finsfan said:

I am about to order a 55lb bag of pilsner, and label peelers is offering their entire stock at 22% off right now! just use code catch22 at checkout. This makes the 55lb bag only $39!

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Was just about to post this.

What kind of shipping cost do you guys see? I'm seeing more cost for shipping than the actual grain

I live 20 minutes away, so I just pick it up... I just ordered a sack of their Pale Ale malt, since I'm still working on a sack of Pils and Munich.

I just placed an order with the 55lb pilsner, multiple ounces of hops, multiple yeasts, specialty grains, and a bunch of candi sugar. The total was $117 with shipping. I saved $25 with the discount and shipping was only $38. Not bad!

I just brewed a brett saison with this yesterday. I noticed some people saying to adjust your mill because this grain was smaller, but I didnt see any size difference at all when comparing it with other grains. As expected, my gravity was 4 points higher then I was shooting for, but I am total fine with that. Now I just have to dial back the recipes, and use less grain. I wont be able to taste it for awhile, but I am already really happy with this grain.

I just made an American Wheat with 6.5lb Avangard Pale ale, 3lb Avangard Wheat, and .5 lb Honey Malt. The Pale Ale malt seems to be highly flavorful and aromatic, with a really strong biscuity/sourdoughy flavor, almost like I had added Victory or Special roast. This might be my new go-to base malt.

I did a new Doppelbock with the Avangard Munich. With the previous Weyerman batch I hit a 22 plato doing 2 mashes of 11 lbs and 10 lbs (and boiling the first runnings of the first while mashing the 2nd).

The new batch was done using 16lbs of the Avangard (included 1lb toasted @ 350F for 40 mins) and we hit 21.5 plato.

BTW, the Dunkles (9 lbs total malt) with 1lb of Toasted Avangard Munich came out nice and nutty, very Dunkles-like.

TGMBA

I just tapped a keg of west-coast bitter (Session IPA?) using primarily Avangard Pale Ale, and it's delicious. It's a more flavorful base malt than standard 2-row, but not as "rich" and biscuity as Maris Otter. I'd recommend without hesitation as a base malt for any american ale.

Here's my recipe, for the curious - it's something like a hopped-up SNPA, something like 21A's Bitter American. This keg is going to go QUICK.

10lb Avangard Pale Ale Malt
.5lb Caracrystal Wheat (55L)
Mash @156

.6oz Magnum 14.1% @60
1.5 oz Chinook 11.4% @10
1.5oz Chinook @0
1.5oz Chinook dry-hop in keg

OG 1.048, FG 1.014, 41 IBU
Ferment with S-04.

QuercusMax said:

I just made an American Wheat with 6.5lb Avangard Pale ale, 3lb Avangard Wheat, and .5 lb Honey Malt. The Pale Ale malt seems to be highly flavorful and aromatic, with a really strong biscuity/sourdoughy flavor, almost like I had added Victory or Special roast. This might be my new go-to base malt.

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QuercusMax said:

I just tapped a keg of west-coast bitter (Session IPA?) using primarily Avangard Pale Ale, and it's delicious. It's a more flavorful base malt than standard 2-row, but not as "rich" and biscuity as Maris Otter. I'd recommend without hesitation as a base malt for any american ale.

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QuercusMax, I would agree with your descriptions of this malt, particularly the sourdoughy characteristic. I find the pale to almost be like a base malt with british crystal and sourdoughy characteristics mixed in. It's not very "neutral" and wouldn't serve well in those style of beers (cream ale, blonde, etc) - BUT I am putting in my CAP as we speak just to prove it to myself .

On to my question though, are you finding this malt to produce exceptionally dark wort? My CAP is 75% AvangardPaleAleMalt, 25% yellow corn with an OG of 1.060, and the wort looks like I threw in a half pound of C40/C60. I've found the same issue with some other batches I've brewed with it. In BeerSmith, I've actually adjusted the SRM to 4.5 (I may move to 5-6 after a few more batches) and it seems to better match the beer I've brewed with it.

Cheers!

Hmm, I wouldn't say it comes out darker than I would expect, but I haven't really tried to make anything with it where I was paying a lot of attention to the SRM. I made an IPA with 50/50 Pilsner and Pale Ale malt and it was pretty light in color.

I just re-brewed my Session IPA (1.049, 95% pale ale malt, 5% Crystal 80), and it's currently very cloudy. The color I get seems to be pretty close to the estimate that BrewPal on my iPhone gives me.

Could it be a pH issue maybe?

Thanks for the reply. I've got a pretty good handle on pH and am not seeing this kind of color variation with other malts. In fact, I've got a Czech pils with 100% Avangard pilsner (non-decocted) and it's lighter than I hoped for (looks like a bud light ). I was hoping that it's not just me with the pale malt color, but it looks like it may be (wouldn't be the first time ). Thanks again!

Just moved my CAP from primary to keg, and pulled a sample for gravity checking. Aside from being a higher FG than I had hoped for , the color is VERY dark for what I was expecting from a "regular" base malt. In a 5.25 gallon batch, using only 8 lb Avangard Pale Ale and 2.75 lb Yellow Corn grits as my grist, the color comes out in the 8-9 SRM range based on comparison of other beers in that same range - that's almost twice as dark as I expected!! As a "regular" continental base malt that puts the grain SRM up near 8; <-- that's munich territory there !!!

Fortunately, color doesn't really impact flavor and it's drinks wonderfully from the fermenter . Just need to keep the SRM in mind when aiming for lighter-color beers.

I haven't personally used Avangard before, but just today I was told by a LHBS owner that it is garbage and to beware. He said 5 of his really good brewers tried it, and none of the beers were any good.

I am a huge fan of Best Malz pilsner.

That doesn't make any sense to me at all. The pils, wheat and Munich and all great.

He be trolling... LOL

I've brewed a bunch with it and never had an issue or taste problem. Odd.

schematix said:

I haven't personally used Avangard before, but just today I was told by a LHBS owner that it is garbage and to beware. He said 5 of his really good brewers tried it, and none of the beers were any good.

I am a huge fan of Best Malz pilsner.

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Maybe his really good brewers are good, but only relatively. I used 55lbs of it in many styles and they were all good. Speak what you know, not what you hear.

Also could be his LHBS wants to sell pricier malt as they make more $$ off it.

schematix said:

I haven't personally used Avangard before, but just today I was told by a LHBS owner that it is garbage and to beware. He said 5 of his really good brewers tried it, and none of the beers were any good.

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^^What your LHBS owner said is simply not true. While it may be new to us, it's been around a long time overseas . The pilsner malt produces beers that are as fine as weyermann; munich surpasses the weyermann equivalent; and the pale ale malt is distinctive in it's own right and imparts significant maltiness, but is not for use as a generic base malt of all styles, instead think to german style beers for the pale ale malt. It's good stuff and generally comes in at about 80% the cost of other continental malts.

Well given how strong the opinions are that it is in fact good, I will have to give it a try to see for myself. I wasn't trolling, just adding an opinion of someone who I respect.

schematix said:

Well given how strong the opinions are that it is in fact good, I will have to give it a try to see for myself. I wasn't trolling, just adding an opinion of someone who I respect.

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I didn't think you were trolling. You clearly stated that your LHBS guy provided you his opinion. You're good in my book

If and when you try it, give the Pilsner or Munich malts a shot over the Pale Ale malt. They seem to be more "substitutable" in any given recipe than the Pale Ale malt. Additionally, the pilsner malt has been known/shown to give additional extraction during the mash so you may end up with higher gravity (efficiency) than expected.

It does hit a tad higher than calculated in gravity and comes out a bit darker than other brands - this is from my experience with three bags of Avangard Pilsen.

Have any of you noticed any DMS or off flavors with only a 60 min boil with this malt. I made a Wit that I've made before and the only change to the recipe was this malt. It's been through the primary and sitting in secondary for a total of about 6 weeks now. I pick up a ham like taste which BJCP is an off flavor found in Wit's that's unwanted, but i haven't been able to find what contributes to giving it the ham like flavor. Could be bad/old coriander, boiling orange peel for too long, I'm not sure but since this is the only change I made I'm wondering if it just needs a more traditional 90 min boil since it's Pilsner malt.

I had 4 other people taste it, two who are mainly BMC drinker and one who is mainly a wine drinker, the fourth is my wife so she at least tastes most of what I make and for beer she tends to like fruit beers or porters/stouts.
The two BMC drinkers more or less just said it tasted bland, maybe a little grainy?
Wine drinker said it wasn't bad but had almost a flour like taste in the finish
My wife said it had a perfume taste

So it may be far from DMS, since that's described as cream corn and none of that feedback is close to cream corn.

I'd always recommend at least a 75-minute boil if not 90 when you're using a lot of Pilsner malt, regardless of where it comes from.

I haven't noticed any DMS in particular, but I always do a long boil with this malt.

I always use a 60 minute boil for this malt and have never had any issues.

Update on the extract potential of this grain (i.e. the increased efficiency) that I experienced:

The first bag, bought January 2014, had the increased extract potential mentioned in this thread. I found it to fall somewhere around the 1.041 range.

The second bag, bought March 2015, had a more normal extract potential of 1.037 . As for taste character, I'll have to post back once I get to taste a beer brewed with this new bag.

stpug said:

Update on the extract potential of this grain (i.e. the increased efficiency) that I experienced:

The first bag, bought January 2014, had the increased extract potential mentioned in this thread. I found it to fall somewhere around the 1.041 range.

The second bag, bought March 2015, had a more normal extract potential of 1.037 . As for taste character, I'll have to post back once I get to taste a beer brewed with this new bag.

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Any new impressions? I just ordered a sack each of the Pilsner and Munich from my LHBS. I'm excited to try it in some lagers and maybe a Kolsch.

jsguitar said:

Any new impressions? I just ordered a sack each of the Pilsner and Munich from my LHBS. I'm excited to try it in some lagers and maybe a Kolsch.

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Thanks for the reminder. I've used the new pilsner malt in several brews since March. A few are sour beers which have not been sampled too much, but three others have been turned around.

A petite saison which consisted of pils ~60% and spelt ~40% is on tap right now and is very tasty. Of course, the gravity and grist were both very modest but the beer itself is good, however, it is dominated by yeast and hops. I really like this beer but it's not like the pilsner malt plays a huge role.

A berliner weisse consisting of pils 70% and wheat 30%. Tart and refreshing. No yeast or hops to get in the way, but the lactic qualities are the real centerpiece. At 5 lbs total grist for 5 gallons, I guess I can't expect much of any malt qualities to poke through. Again, a fantastic beer but certainly not malt-focused.

A cream ale consisting of 62% pils, 26% corn, and some character malts, with a moderate OG. This is probably the best example of beer with the new bag of pilsner malt, and I truly love this beer. Easy drinking, light-mod ABV, and an overall great summer beer. The pilsner malt is just enough to get some grainy malt character but not enough to pull your attention away from everything else. Again, a great beer and probably the best example I've produced with the new bag of pilsner malt. This is my third version of this beer and the first version to use avangard pilsner; the only changes I'll be making to the grist of this beer in the future will be the character malts - the pilsner is there to stay (that's two-thumbs up for the pils ).

Overall, I would say the new bag is very similar to the last in terms of "usual" pilsner malt qualities but just not as much extract potential as the last bag. It's a great pilsner malt IMO.

The munich I/light sack I have (also Avangard) is very good. I've used it in several beer, one of which was 100% dunkle munich. The malt qualities are distinct and pronounced, and in the fresh-bread (with crust) character. Not dark enough to pull off a dunkle on it's own, but the beer was very tasty. I've used this malt in many beers (including the cream ale mentioned above) and it's very good.

The last Avangard malt I've used is their Pale Ale malt and I generally do NOT like it. Very distinct and specific characteristics. Works well in dark malty beers but not great for anything lighter than a brown ale. I won't buy this bag again.

Hope this helps.

That's very helpful! Thanks for that. Yeah, I just had to call my LHBS guy to make sure it was the Munich light that I ordered and I'm glad I did because he had me down for the dark. I just don't use that much dark Munich but I'm using light Munich in a lot of different beers. I just love the stuff.

I'm glad to hear that the Pilsner and Munich are quality malts because I think they're reasonably priced as well. It's saving me some money over ordering Weyermann online. I look forward to using it.

jsguitar said:

That's very helpful! Thanks for that. Yeah, I just had to call my LHBS guy to make sure it was the Munich light that I ordered and I'm glad I did because he had me down for the dark. I just don't use that much dark Munich but I'm using light Munich in a lot of different beers. I just love the stuff.

I'm glad to hear that the Pilsner and Munich are quality malts because I think they're reasonably priced as well. It's saving me some money over ordering Weyermann online. I look forward to using it.

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What LHBS did you buy from and how much was a 55-lb sack?

wardens355 said:

What LHBS did you buy from and how much was a 55-lb sack?

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Homebrew Pro Shoppe in Olathe. I'd have to double check because I haven't paid for it yet but I think he said the Pilsner was $54 something and the Munich was $60 and some change I think.

jsguitar said:

Homebrew Pro Shoppe in Olathe. I'd have to double check because I haven't paid for it yet but I think he said the Pilsner was $54 something and the Munich was $60 and some change I think.

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That's pretty good. I've been buying online whenever there's 20-25% off deals to dampen the shipping cost. Do they do a bulk order whenever they get enough people in on the order?

Just an FYI, I have made solid beers with Avangard Pilsener, Vienna, and pale ale malts. Just got a bag of Munich Light and plan to make a Munich Dunkel with it in the next few weeks. Good maltster so far.

wardens355 said:

That's pretty good. I've been buying online whenever there's 20-25% off deals to dampen the shipping cost. Do they do a bulk order whenever they get enough people in on the order?

Just an FYI, I have made solid beers with Avangard Pilsener, Vienna, and pale ale malts. Just got a bag of Munich Light and plan to make a Munich Dunkel with it in the next few weeks. Good maltster so far.

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Yeah, I thought it was good. When I was in recently I noticed his malt prices were quite a bit lower and he told me he just starting getting a better deal from his supplier. I don't know about the bulk order, but it wouldn't hurt to give him a call and ask. He's always really nice.


Good to hear another positive endorsement of Avangard.

I just opened a bag of Avan pils and have been using their Munich dark over the past few months. Their dark is only 15L (or at least the one I have) and has a really good flavor, it's full and smooth. I prefer it over Weyermann...brewed the same beer three times now, twice with Avangard Munich and once with Weyermann and I can tell the difference.