you still use hops in your beer?

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Even if you don't want to give out the recipe, could you at least explain the goal in the beer, or what it is supposed to be like? What exactly are you planning to launch?
Didn't you one time post about doing a Solera out of a 40oz Bottle?
I think if you threw down some of your theories about the "True Beer" concept, people would give you some feedback, if that is what your after.
I think most people are using hops. I have even heard of brewers adding 1 ibu, in order to legally call it beer.
 
I can understand someone using the words 'True Beer', but I would think the usage would be limited to a country, or continent, or district.
What was the first large-scale (or multiple small scale) malt based spiced alcoholic beverage? That could be called true beer.
And not the global megamulti brews that we're being offered by megamulti stores and chains of pubs.

Something that defines a certain place on earth, perhaps in a certain era. More of a mark in history, than a modern belief system.
 
fredthecat said:
All im saying is that i reserve a certain level of purity for my True Beer. Not being judgemental of whatever some people choose to make. :)
Click to expand...

This statement itself is kind of judgemental because it implys the beer without hops is "true" beer even though thats not necessarily "true" at all...

Beer has been a constantly evolving this over centuries... As far as known history, the Egyptians made beer that was closer to mead and its been evolving ever since as people discovered better things to improve it along the way and one way was to balance the cloying sweetness and preserve the beer. They used hops as well as what was available to them at the time.. (American colonists used pine cones)...
Research shows despite the romanticized stories many earlier beers where actually pretty terrible tasting with wild yeasts coming out infected and different tasting each time since nothing was known of sanitation (or yeast) at the time... many brewers would have a "Magic paddle" they used to make the beer and this was used to inoculate the beer with yeast that was growing on it. This is also one of the reasons for the stereotyped cauldron for the witches as many brewers were women that wore pointy hats to advertise their craft until the church decided they were unwanted competition and coincidentally the "witch" was born and many brewers were burned at the stake.

To simplify it , Pagans were around long before Christianity was born... does that make it the "True" religion?
 
augiedoggy said:
This statement itself is kind of judgemental because it implys the beer without hops is "true" beer even though thats not necessarily "true" at all...

Beer has been a constantly evolving this over centuries... As far as known history, the Egyptians made beer that was closer to mead and its been evolving ever since as people discovered better things to improve it along the way and one way was to balance the cloying sweetness and preserve the beer. They used hops as well as what was available to them at the time.. (American colonists used pine cones)...
Research shows despite the romanticized stories many earlier beers where actually pretty terrible tasting with wild yeasts coming out infected and different tasting each time since nothing was known of sanitation (or yeast) at the time... many brewers would have a "Magic paddle" they used to make the beer and this was used to inoculate the beer with yeast that was growing on it. This is also one of the reasons for the stereotyped cauldron for the witches as many brewers were women that wore pointy hats to advertise their craft until the church decided they were unwanted competition and coincidentally the "witch" was born and many brewers were burned at the stake.

To simplify it , Pagans were around long before Christianity was born... does that make it the "True" religion?
Click to expand...

So this about religion now?
Can politics be far behind?:D
 
This thread went sideways real quick. Loving it!! :mug:

Edit: Yes, I "STILL" use hops.
 
...yet it seems any thread where someone tries to talk about the benefits of LODO brewing, with substantive factual brewing literature as it's basis, gets locked and pilloried! :rolleyes:

:mug:
 
I attempted to make a small batch True Beer yesterday. I used no hops and thought if I’m not using any hops why not really get with it so I didn’t use yeast or barley, either. We’re talking TRUE!

Instead I used nothing but frozen water, vodka, and cranberry juice and made a series of 12 oz batches. It was wonderful!

OP is right, you don’t need no stink’n hops!
 
cyberbackpacker said:
...yet it seems any thread where someone tries to talk about the benefits of LODO brewing, with substantive factual brewing literature as it's basis, gets locked and pilloried! :rolleyes:

:mug:
Click to expand...

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Click to expand...
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher (circa the early 1800's)


With regard to LODO I have personally progressed through each of Arthur Schopenhauer's truth stages.
 
cyberbackpacker said:
...yet it seems any thread where someone tries to talk about the benefits of LODO brewing, with substantive factual brewing literature as it's basis, gets locked and pilloried! :rolleyes:

:mug:
Click to expand...

There's nothing wrong with talking about LoDO, as long as it's related to the topic of the thread. No thread has been closed for discussing LoDO. One common reason that a thread gets locked is that it has descended into name calling, bickering, and mostly OT comments. Once a thread goes off the rails, that can be the end of the thread.

I'm posting a bit of educational material instead of just deleting the quoted post as "off topic." Hopefully it will help folks understand why moderation occurs.

doug293cz
HBT Moderator
 
doug293cz said:
There's nothing wrong with talking about LoDO, as long as it's related to the topic of the thread. No thread has been closed for discussing LoDO. One common reason that a thread gets locked is that it has descended into name calling, bickering, and mostly OT comments. Once a thread goes off the rails, that can be the end of the thread.

I'm posting a bit of educational material instead of just deleting the quoted post as "off topic." Hopefully it will help folks understand why moderation occurs.

doug293cz
HBT Moderator
Click to expand...

So everyone is clear, moderators discuss these actions, no one moderator is solely responsible. Doug's statement above is exactly right. Feel free to discuss LoDO, but try not to descend into bickering and name calling, and don't take over other threads. Start your own thread. If someone tries to blow it up, report it.
 
I truly appreciate the moderators posting and not deleting, and my post above is the first time I have EVER posted anything about LODO. I have been an active member for almost ten years-- I read a lot (generally at least once a day), but I personally try to only post when I have something of value I think will benefit the community.

But I still find humor/ridiculousness in the below response when there is a sense of a "benevolence" in allowing my "off topic" commentary to exist in this thread rather than be deleted even though it is "off topic" when this freaking whole thread is one big OT cluster!

I cannot imagine, nor would i personally want to, what moderating forums is like. That said, my commentary above references LODO but is a greater comment on moderation on the forum in general from a long time user-- albeit yes I have noticed that threads on LODO seem to get heated, labored, edited, deleted, and locked seemingly the most in the last year or two.

The problem with that specific topic, is I find the topic fascinating, but only to try and return to threads at later time and cannot find them at all or wholly difficult to follow because of editing.

I hope my "tone" is not coming across as disparaging, rather as one that has just been discouraged at times... because to me, and again it is my perception and what I am reading/engaging with, it just seems like there is a ton of garbage posts on here that last into perpetuity, and others with actual brewing value that get edited to nothing, or not allowed to develop because of snarky, petty, trolling, whatever you have posting-- and then being locked, etc.

Again, thanks to the moderators though... managing so many thousands?!? of daily users from across the world has to be a challenge.

:):(:confused::mad::smack:

And a :goat: so that apparently I am "on topic" (insert tongue in to cheek)!

:mug:



doug293cz said:
There's nothing wrong with talking about LoDO, as long as it's related to the topic of the thread. No thread has been closed for discussing LoDO. One common reason that a thread gets locked is that it has descended into name calling, bickering, and mostly OT comments. Once a thread goes off the rails, that can be the end of the thread.

I'm posting a bit of educational material instead of just deleting the quoted post as "off topic." Hopefully it will help folks understand why moderation occurs.

doug293cz
HBT Moderator
Click to expand...
 
cyberbackpacker said:
I truly appreciate the moderators posting and not deleting, and my post above is the first time I have EVER posted anything about LODO. I have been an active member for almost ten years-- I read a lot (generally at least once a day), but I personally try to only post when I have something of value I think will benefit the community.

But I still find humor/ridiculousness in the below response when there is a sense of a "benevolence" in allowing my "off topic" commentary to exist in this thread rather than be deleted even though it is "off topic" when this freaking whole thread is one big OT cluster!

I cannot imagine, nor would i personally want to, what moderating forums is like. That said, my commentary above references LODO but is a greater comment on moderation on the forum in general from a long time user-- albeit yes I have noticed that threads on LODO seem to get heated, labored, edited, deleted, and locked seemingly the most in the last year or two.

The problem with that specific topic, is I find the topic fascinating, but only to try and return to threads at later time and cannot find them at all or wholly difficult to follow because of editing.

I hope my "tone" is not coming across as disparaging, rather as one that has just been discouraged at times... because to me, and again it is my perception and what I am reading/engaging with, it just seems like there is a ton of garbage posts on here that last into perpetuity, and others with actual brewing value that get edited to nothing, or not allowed to develop because of snarky, petty, trolling, whatever you have posting-- and then being locked, etc.

Again, thanks to the moderators though... managing so many thousands?!? of daily users from across the world has to be a challenge.

:):(:confused::mad::smack:

And a :goat: so that apparently I am "on topic" (insert tongue in to cheek)!

:mug:
Click to expand...
:off:
The goal of moderation is mostly to maintain civil discourse in the forums, and to weed out spam. Threads occasionally get locked when civility declines, or the discussion goes way off topic, but rarely do threads get deleted. Deleted posts seldom have significant technical content. So, I don't think moderation removes useful information from the site.

We don't attempt to curate the validity of technical information. That would be an impossible task, as what was "true" yesterday, may not be true tomorrow. There is a wide spectrum of quality in the technical information posted to HBT - from flat out wrong, to harmless but useless, to helpful, to insightful, and even ground breaking on occasion. It is up to the users to employ their critical thinking skills, along with their assessment of the posters' expertise, to filter the barley from the chaff. That does make finding good information more challenging, but there really isn't anyway around that.

This discussion of moderation is "off topic." So, let's cut it off here. Please no more discussion of moderation in this thread. If you want to discuss moderation more, PM a mod.

doug293cz
 
fredthecat said:
Its not a gruit. It is beer that is down to the bare bones of what beer is and yhen ratcheted up again in my own style. You can be critical all you want. I cant really release my details as they are confidential in preparation for my launch.

You can cut the condescending tone any time 2015 join daters
Click to expand...

Maybe, as soon as you cut yours...
 
OK, I'll pick up the ball.

I do want to know more about non-hops beers. Not trolling...I'm serious. I have never done one, though I have experimented a lot with additives like coriander, vanilla, oak, whisky, etc. But's always been in a hopped beer. I'd like to expand my knowledge on this. Maybe some people here could steer me to a good primer?
 
it's funny how people get all bent out of shape when i just try to give some advice.

all im saying is that in major homebrew contests True Beer wins every time for aroma, taste and overall. No hops is the secret that the pros use. I will be posting my recipe soon.
 
fredthecat said:
No hops is the secret that the pros use.
Click to expand...
Ah ha! I knew something was up when our tour guide at Sierra Nevada took us into that room that had the HOP ROOM sign on the door and bales of hops the size of refrigerators in bins about the room. I just couldn't piece it together until now. It was a distraction to pull our attention away from the man behind the curtain and what was really going on at the brewery.

I hope the secret ingredient isn't Unicorn farts fermented with magic pixie dust though. I'm all out of that color.
 
im not saying its the only secret but its the major one. never heard of sierra nevada, so i cant comment on that
 
fredthecat said:
it's funny how people get all bent out of shape when i just try to give some advice.

all im saying is that in major homebrew contests True Beer wins every time for aroma, taste and overall. No hops is the secret that the pros use. I will be posting my recipe soon.
Click to expand...

It's more the way you came in here with this smug superiority about what you're doing, and then withheld any details about what you actually did except not using hops. That's not advice, that's self-congratulatory nothingness at best, or trolling at worst.

In other words...
tumblr_mpe54zOcNi1qdlh1io1_250.gif
 
fredthecat said:
it's funny how people get all bent out of shape when i just try to give some advice..
Click to expand...

What's funny is this so called true beer that's so top secret that no recipe has been posted. So what is the purpose of this thread?
 
What is untrue about beer with hops? Historically unoriginal perhaps, but untrue seems to be a bit of a stretch.
 
drainbamage said:
It's more the way you came in here with this smug superiority about what you're doing, and then withheld any details about what you actually did except not using hops. That's not advice, that's self-congratulatory nothingness at best, or trolling at worst.

In other words...
tumblr_mpe54zOcNi1qdlh1io1_250.gif
Click to expand...
I only saw this thread because an unrelated condescending comment that the OP made in another completely unrelated thread and then the need he felt to talk about the superiority of his "True Beer" in another thread which was about brew room pc setups which he was mocking.

I searched all his posts and found that he mentions his "True beer" every chance he can in just about every thread hes posted in while often also mocking any beer with hops as inferior ..

Fredthecat, Your certainly entitled to your opinion but when you shove it down peoples throats while mocking their practices at the same time it wont get you far..

That said ,
I am curious as well what you use at a bittering agent to balance the beer .. im also curious if its just one style beer you can brew this way or if your using herbs or something else to make them unique from each other.

I dont believe for a second that the pro brewers are making and selling beers made without hops... This comment makes me question your knowledge. Do you think hops are conspiracy or something?

Also can someone please tell me what "lodo" means in this thread since we are obviously not talking about downtown Denver?
 
augiedoggy said:
I dont believe for a second that the pro brewers are making and selling beers made without hops... This comment makes me question your knowledge. Do you think hops are conspiracy or something?
Click to expand...

In sour beer production some brewers use just enough hops to meet the legal requirement for their state license. So yes if it is possible some Pro's would use no hops at all.
 
augiedoggy said:
I dont believe for a second that the pro brewers are making and selling beers made without hops... This comment makes me question your knowledge. Do you think hops are conspiracy or something?
Click to expand...


I worked at a brewery that made a Heather beer with no hops, just Heather flowers, plus there's a place near me that specializes in botanical beers and often doesn't use hops. Also Scratch Brewering sounds like they don't use them on lots of beers (they wrote a book called "The Homebrewers Almanac" that I hear good things about.

It's not really common but there are hopless beers out there made by pros
 
fredthecat said:
it's funny how people get all bent out of shape when i just try to give some advice.

all im saying is that in major homebrew contests True Beer wins every time for aroma, taste and overall. No hops is the secret that the pros use. I will be posting my recipe soon.
Click to expand...

First of all, you haven't given us any advice yet. Your first post had no substance whatsoever, just a personal value statement, coated in a layer of attitude. I have seen nothing but chest-thumping and shrill defensiveness from you on every post in this thread. Every time you post you merely open yourself to more ridicule. We're not "getting bent out of shape." We're mocking you.

Let's see if you can come through with the goods:
1. Give us some empirical data re these "major homebrew contests" in which your so-called "true beer wins every time." Don't just name names, give us links so that we have the proof. Who are these "pros"?
2. Where is this "advice" you speak of? Give us something we can learn from. Prove to us that you really know something of value.
3. Post your recipe or GTFO.

You started this thread. Impress us with your acumen.
 
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