Bernie Brewer
Grouchy Old Fart
Fwiw, stir plates also introduce oxygen into the wort.
Yes it does. At that point, you want oxygen back in there to get things rolling again.
Fwiw, stir plates also introduce oxygen into the wort.
I read where other people have asked this but never got a really clear answer. Nobody really recommends just scooping/racking from the yeast cake because of the other sediments from hops and whatever. but how is that different that just racking a new beer in top of the yeast cake as plenty of people do here? I understand it's probably better practice to use this washing method, but is it that much of a problem to simplify it and just scoop or siphon the yeast cake into jars?
Well this can be done and beer will be brewed and with success I imagine. It isn't, however, the idea behind the OP's conversation. Washing yeast is about gathering viable yeast to be used at a later time via a proper starter. It's not the same as pitching on a fresh yeast cake. If your storing yeast for some time you want it's storage medium to be as clean as possible. These are two different topics all together.
Alright well I think I followed all the steps here...does this look right for being about two weeks old??
pabloj13 said:Looks great. Make a starter with that for your next batch and you will be very happy.
Do I want to waste some if the liquid on top before making starter or add the entire jar? I'm guessing the latter but just checking
The first few times we washed yeast, there didn't have lids. So we just used saran wrap & rubber bands.Why do we care about headspace in the jars? Surely if the yeast slurry is in cooled boiled water, as soon as the yeast starts to settle out the sterile water froms an oxygen free barrier?(I've read neary all this thread but couldnt find an answer to that!)
We go the extra mile and boil and cool a pot full of water. Pour off *all* the "old, dirty beer" (ODB), then pour in enough cooled water to rehydrate the yeast (we've been using 2 or 3 times the volume of the sleeping yeasties). Put a cover on it, then shake until in a solution.Yeah, I normally pour off as much as I can, just leaving enough to swirl the yeast to resuspend.
You will actually get rather little yeast growth from a pint starter. Typically to get a lot of new yeast you would use at least 1 L, and sometimes more.
Go to mrmalty.com and/or yeastcalc.com, they will show you what size starter to use for a given batch size and gravity.
wormraper said:hmm, so one cup of dme with 1 liter (2 pints almost) is the way to go. would doubling up on the rewashed yeast work as well (I doubt I'll use all 4 or 5 of those bottles up within 6 months )
Yes and no.
One liter + one cup of dme is my go to starter recipe, I measure the amounts, never the gravity.
As for doubling up the yeast, unfortunately you follow the laws of diminishing returns and it will not double the way you expect it to, although it will produce more cell reproduction than just using one jar of washed yeast. Fwiw, I have yet to have a problem with starting a washed yeast, and having it take over a 5 gallon batch with a simple one liter starter.
HollisBT said:Another rule that I try to follow with my starters:
4 days for eating/reproduction
12 hours in the fridge to flocc out
Pull the started yeast out of the fridge the morning of brew day
It is almost a week of prep for a starter, and several people prefer to pitch at high krausen, I have had good results with both, but I prefer to cold crash and decant.
This is a very ymmv suggestion.
Jukas said:4 days? Is this with or without a stir plate? I usually see my starters go through high krausen and finish in 18-24 hours. I may lose out on some yeast growth by not letting it go 36hrs, but I'm guessing it's minuscule compared to the major early growth phase.
Excuse me if this has already been talked about somewhere in this thread, but it sounds to me like the people who are dragging the yeast concentration slider all the way to the right on the Mr Malty calculator are doing a misstep. In his podcast on repitching yeast, Jamil says that the presets on those to sliders are good estimates on the conditions people will have when they let their yeast settle in the fridge. He explains that the extreme thick slurry value of 4.5 billion/ml at the right side of the slider is what the white labs guys achieve with their vials, and I am assuming they use a centrifuge to get that.
A rule of thumb is that you'll have twice the amount of yeast you need after primary fermentation. This is one benefit to yeast washing is that you not only get excess yeast out for future use, but you also have the optimum amount of yeast for optimum beer.How long would you anticipate for the separation in the fridge to take place? I tried this for the first time a couple of days ago, and its started (completed?) to happen, but my jar seems to have about half and half whereas most of the pictures I see posted here the yeast seems like a very small part of what is left in the jar.
I'm thinking this could be because:
A) I'm being impatient, just needs a few more days.
B) I only did one quart jar (I'm new to this so I figure if I'm only supposed to store 1 month then 1 jar is enough), so may be I got more yeast than if I would have split it between 5 jars.
c) I did something wrong
And a second question, if you think the answer might be B then would you still recommend a starter or is that a step I can skip since there's more yeast? I've never done a starter, just used Wyeast activator packs, so if its a step I can avoid and avoid a mistake then I'd like to skip it
Thanks in advance for your help. This thread is great, could be a real money saver as I'm paying about $10 for yeast at the LHBS and trying to start with smaller batches 3-4 gallons until I get the hang of it.
Used close to a quart of water, poured into 1 container, waited about 30 minutes (didn't put this in the fridge although it does make sense now that you mention it) and then poured into the current quart container covered and fridged. Its come down a little since my original post, but still is at least a third yeast looking substance.
awarner322 said:So for making the starter with one of these ball jars...just add the dme after its been boiled to the entire contents of the jar ? or do you pour off the liquid on the top first before putting it in the flask?....wasn't really site what the op meant by 'decant'
BPhad said:Yes pour off 80% of the liquid then swirl it around to get the yeast in suspension. Pour that into your starter wort. I'm on back to back uses of 1056. Good luck.
Has anyone washed WLP007? If yes, what is your process? WLP007 drops and coagulates very quickly.
I had essentially the same experience with washing 007. The washed jars grew up fine in a starter, but in the future I will definitely give it less time to settle. Maybe only 10 min or so, when I normally do 15-20 minutes.That was the yeast the first time I tried washing yeast, and it didn't go that well. As you said, it drops out quick. I collected the top layer off the carboy and I think that was mostly water/beer, with little yeast. I ended up with maybe a 1/8 thick layer on the bottom of my jars. When I re-used it I just used that layer off of all 4 jars at once, and it seemed to be OK, but I wasn't thrilled w/the outcome.
If I reuse one of those very flocculent strains again I will try to let it settle a much shorter time.
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