Yeast Washing Illustrated

[pabloj13]

So i tried washing my yeast tonight. After racking from the secondary there was enough beer left that i didn't opt to add any extra water; i easily sloshed it into a slurry and poured into my jars. They never settled. I was under the impression it'd only take like 20 minutes or so? been a couple hours now.

Well you want the boiled water (which has very little oxygen) to help the yeast go to sleep. Plus you don't want the yeast to settle, only the trub.

 

[paparker21]

Hmm yea, i hadn't considered the lack of oxygen as a key part of this thing. lol. Wouldn't the fermented beer be very low in oxygen anyway?

What i mean is that i have no settling of ANY layers... it all just stayed a slurry. I guess maybe i'll chock this one up as a failed attempt and try again next time.

 

[Jester]

What i mean is that i have no settling of ANY layers... it all just stayed a slurry. I guess maybe i'll chock this one up as a failed attempt and try again next time.

Maybe it has something to do with the density of the beer in comparison to water. Due to the beer being more dense then water, the yeast wouldn't settle out as quickly... Totally just thinking about this to myself, so it could be a wrong. =)

 

[Accidic]

I've had one a few months ago that took nearly a week in the fridge to begin to really settle. I figured it for yeast resilience. After it settles once it'll settle much faster tho so you can separate it out.

 

[brewhappy]

This is an excellent resource! I rinsed my yeast for the first time a month or so ago. I did a saison with the Dupont strain and then reused it in a Belgian stout. I wasn't sure if the yeast would do well, the first saison was about 7% so I was worried the yeast may have been stressed a little too much. The krausen was also about half the size it was with the first saison. It worked like a champ though! Ended up fermenting the Belgian Stout from 1.091 to 1.013 in 14 days! It's a 10.3% monster. The alcohol is really hot right now so I plan to sit this one up for a while.

 

[kurtism]

This is an excellent resource! I rinsed my yeast for the first time a month or so ago. I did a saison with the Dupont strain and then reused it in a Belgian stout. I wasn't sure if the yeast would do well, the first saison was about 7% so I was worried the yeast may have been stressed a little too much. The krausen was also about half the size it was with the first saison. It worked like a champ though! Ended up fermenting the Belgian Stout from 1.091 to 1.013 in 14 days! It's a 10.3% monster. The alcohol is really hot right now so I plan to sit this one up for a while.

weren't you worried about using the yeast on a different style?

 

[brewhappy]

weren't you worried about using the yeast on a different style?

No I wanted to make something weird anyway. I was initially planning to buy some Chimay yeast, but I figured I had the Saison yeast and I would be able to use it in an appropriate amount of time. Now, not sure how the extra esters and phenols from the Saison yeast will play out in a big dark beer. I've had some big dark Saisons and they have been good. This one is much bigger so it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[Vuarra]

Thanks for this thread... I just bottled some lager using White Labs WLP810 (San Francisco Lager), and at $13 for the test tube, dang right I am washing it.

I may post pics later, but just wanted to thank Bernie for making it as easy as canning

 

[Accidic]

The washed strain (two belgian strains) I used for several pitches was possibly underpitched this last time but took 1.069 to 1.013 in less than 24 hours with a very interesting profile between 71-73 degrees this last time. The d sample was good and I'm hopeful but only time will tell.

 

[MichaelBrock]

I think the sanitizing by boiling is just incidental. My understanding is that you need to boil the water to drive off as much oxygen as possible to keep the yeast from reproducing. Boiling the jars is just convenience.

I have tried this a few times and haven't had a great deal of luck. It takes much longer to settle out for me than the 20 minutes that was suggested in the first post and I have never managed to collect enough yeast for more than a single batch/starter.

 

[ultravista]

I hit the jars with Starsan and use tap water. I have no idea if it's problematic or not.

 

[JeepBrew]

I tried my first wash, it didn't separate. It was a White Labs WLP029, maybe it's just fussy. My next batch uses nottingham ale yeast, I'll try again.

 

[pabloj13]

I tried my first wash, it didn't separate. It was a White Labs WLP029, maybe it's just fussy. My next batch uses nottingham ale yeast, I'll try again.

Did you try pouring into the jars anyway? Last night I washed my 2nd generation of 1056 from an oatmeal stout. It was hard to see the layers at all. Instead I just waited 20 minutes for the trub to settle in the carboy, poured about a half a gallon into a gallon jar, shook like crazy, waited 20 more minutes and poured a little less than a pint into 4 pint jars. Got 3 jars of pure healthy yeast and 1 of a mix of live/dead yeast. This was after not being able to see separate layers.

 

[sfrisby]

Finally got through this entire thread and have one question that I haven't seen answered, though it's been asked several times. How high of an ABV can you go before you shouldn't wash yeast?

Closest I found was just a page ago where someone used yeast from a 7% saison. Thanks.

 

[brewhappy]

Finally got through this entire thread and have one question that I haven't seen answered, though it's been asked several times. How high of an ABV can you go before you shouldn't wash yeast?

Closest I found was just a page ago where someone used yeast from a 7% saison. Thanks.

I think 7% is the upper limit. You can always try but you may not get a good result. I think 6% or under is ideal.

 

[Accidic]

I've washed at 9.5 with zero problems. However, it's one time I wouldn't direct pitch by volume. The route I took in my case was to run two starters. The first I did was in a 1L, let it go just until active (about 6hrs in my case) then "pitch" liquid from the top to a much larger starter. Only problem there was guessing if my cell counts were adequate but on 3L with the amount of cake I figured I was ok on the lighter beer I was doing.

Yes, it's possible I could have had some mutated yeast but I noticed no off flavors to speak of. Also I found a large amount of yeast sediment left behind on the first starter which I'm pretty sure was the yeast that didn't make it. I do think the 7% suggestion is conservative tho. I should point out that mine was pacman and it tolerates a pretty high alcohol tho.

 

[stbnj]

This was very helpful! I am trying to reduce costs and saving 7-8 bucks a batch is a great start. Obviously for the occasional Belgian or saison but its nice to keep some washed 1056, 1450, Cry Havoc, and San Diego Super yeast on hand.

 

[Esmitee]

This was very helpful! I am trying to reduce costs and saving 7-8 bucks a batch is a great start. Obviously for the occasional Belgian or saison but its nice to keep some washed 1056, 1450, Cry Havoc, and San Diego Super yeast on hand.

Yes I agree with you it is a money saver, AND another something to do with brewing !LOL

BTW STB, you must be around the block from me Tall Timbers, Taviastock?, I also live in LEH. Small World. I really don't know any other brewers in this Area....HI

 

[JeepBrew]

Did you try pouring into the jars anyway? Last night I washed my 2nd generation of 1056 from an oatmeal stout. It was hard to see the layers at all. Instead I just waited 20 minutes for the trub to settle in the carboy, poured about a half a gallon into a gallon jar, shook like crazy, waited 20 more minutes and poured a little less than a pint into 4 pint jars. Got 3 jars of pure healthy yeast and 1 of a mix of live/dead yeast. This was after not being able to see separate layers.

Thanks pabloj13, I think there are multiple issues going on. I have a significant yeast cake at the bottom of my secondary. This indicates to me that I racked it too early. I'm planning to let it finish and try washing again from this cake.

 

[brewser7]

Bernie, Thanks again for this guide. I was able to wash yeast for the first time tonight and it all went according to plan. Now I guess I get to wait a couple days to see how my little mason jars compare to yours. I hope to re-use the first one within the next week.

Cheers

 

[ultravista]

How will you know if the yeast has mutated or changed over time? I'm not talking going bad (rancid) but not quite the same as the original.

 

[Accidic]

If you can taste it you'll know. If you can't, I wouldn't think it'd matter. I would presume i'd you were going to enter a batch that you'd get fresh yeast just in case.

 

[jonmohno]

Would it be ok, say i have some washed yeast which i cant tell if it was washedas good as i wanted sitting in the fridge for good for a month.I dont plan on making a starter because i have no dme. im doing a double small batch, i have 3-4 oz of this yeast in my fridge with obvious light amber beer color above it. \

My question,is since im doing a double small batch would it be ok to decant the top then add water,swirl it up and pitch 1/2 each of the cloudy mix avoiding the more trub on the bottem? I just think since i have enough yeast slurry which was pooly washed probably that i could rewash it upon pitching? Im just saying because ive been told i have enough to pitch for a 5 gallon batch- i have 4 oz of quasi washed yeast for 2- 1.6 gallon batches,am i good? Or am i doomed to need a starter,im shure the answer is starter, but someones said i have enough slurry for a 5 gal batch when i 1/3 5 gal batches.

 

[pabloj13]

Would it be ok, say i have some washed yeast which i cant tell if it was washedas good as i wanted sitting in the fridge for good for a month.I dont plan on making a starter because i have no dme. im doing a double small batch, i have 3-4 oz of this yeast in my fridge with obvious light amber beer color above it. \

My question,is since im doing a double small batch would it be ok to decant the top then add water,swirl it up and pitch 1/2 each of the cloudy mix avoiding the more trub on the bottem? I just think since i have enough yeast slurry which was pooly washed probably that i could rewash it upon pitching? Im just saying because ive been told i have enough to pitch for a 5 gallon batch- i have 4 oz of quasi washed yeast for 2- 1.6 gallon batches,am i good? Or am i doomed to need a starter,im shure the answer is starter, but someones said i have enough slurry for a 5 gal batch when i 1/3 5 gal batches.

I would estimate how much yeast solids you have and use MtMalty to tell you how much you need. I wouldn't worry about the trub. That little bit isn't going to hurt anything.

 

[jdubb75]

Here is some WLP007 I washed around 6:00. It's been in the fridge about 3 1/2 hours. Money in the bank!

I'll probably decant and wash again only to put it in a few smaller containers.

This was my first time washing and definitely look forward to washing more in the future.

 

[blitzcreeg]

thanks for the great write up with pics. it helped me greatly today. As i washed my yeast for the first time.

 

[Thehopguy]

Ive only washed yeast once but geez u guys seem to have gotten SO much more yeast than I did

I followed instructions exactly and ended up with 4 pint mason jars, about each had only about 25 ml of yeast at the bottom

but either way it fermented my next batch so it was still a success.

 

[brew2enjoy]

This is a picture of one of my jars of washed WLP007. Its been about a month now. I have these floating chunks and I can't tell what they are. It is in all 4 jars i did. Is this cause for concern?

 

[tbel]

This is a picture of one of my jars of washed WLP007. Its been about a month now. I have these floating chunks and I can't tell what they are. It is in all 4 jars i did. Is this cause for concern?

I'm no expert, but I have six jars of washed yeast that have been in the fridge for almost a year now. None of them have chunks. They are starting to appear a little gray so I've probably gotta dump them. I used one a week or so ago and it made a nice starter, but I'm not sure how long I want to push them.

Any way if that were mine I'd dump it. Dumping washed yeast is a lot cheaper than ruining a batch of beer.

 

[pabloj13]

i'm no expert, but i have six jars of washed yeast that have been in the fridge for almost a year now. None of them have chunks. They are starting to appear a little gray so i've probably gotta dump them. I used one a week or so ago and it made a nice starter, but i'm not sure how long i want to push them.

Any way if that were mine i'd dump it. Dumping washed yeast is a lot cheaper than ruining a batch of beer.

+1

 

[brew2enjoy]

I would normally agree but these little floaties have been there ever since I siphoned out of the fermenter into these jars. I used alot of whole hops in this recipe so I think that's what I'm seeing here. Just wanted to see if anyone else has ever had something similar.

 

[tbel]

Well, you didn't include that bit of info to begin with.
I guess as long as they appear to be unchanged during that time it may be safe. Not sure I'd use it but that's just me.

 

[CthulhuDreaming]

Thanks for doing this excellent write-up on the yeast washing process.

I am left with a question on starters though. It seems that all that I've read on making them is geared towards brewing beer - naturally, the little bit of wort left after decanting isn't going to hurt beer.

What if I wanted to make a starter from my washed yeast for a non-beer fermented beverage (e.g. mead, cider, wine)? Would you use something other than malt extract (e.g. a dextrose solution, etc) to avoid adding any malt flavor to your beverage?

So far, I've used nothing but dried yeast for non-beer recipes, but I've wondered what you'd do should you want to use a starter instead.

 

[Accidic]

I could be mistaken but I was under the impression the malt starter is for the nutrition of the yeast and gets it ready for the job ahead. Nutrient/energizer definitely adds flavor alternatively so I don't see how that would be better than decanting.

 

[CthulhuDreaming]

I could be mistaken but I was under the impression the malt starter is for the nutrition of the yeast and gets it ready for the job ahead. Nutrient/energizer definitely adds flavor alternatively so I don't see how that would be better than decanting.

I may not have been really clear in what I was asking. I'm aware that the liquid from the malt starter gets decanted - but it's going to be nigh impossible to keep all of the malt flavor in the starter out of the product. So what I'm wondering is this - would that small amount of malt contribute unwanted flavors to non-beer product, or should I stop over thinking this and RDWHAHB?

 

[Brewitt]

or should I stop over thinking this and RDWHAHB?

Definitely!

 

[wolverinebrewer]

I may not have been really clear in what I was asking. I'm aware that the liquid from the malt starter gets decanted - but it's going to be nigh impossible to keep all of the malt flavor in the starter out of the product. So what I'm wondering is this - would that small amount of malt contribute unwanted flavors to non-beer product, or should I stop over thinking this and RDWHAHB?

What non-beer product in particular are you thinking of making? The only experience I have in this is making Graham's English Cider located in the cider recipe section. I used washed S-04 and carbed with 1/4 c. brown sugar. I made a normal DME starter which I decanted.
This was made on 9/11/11 so its still a little young but I have tried a couple bottles. It did have that yeasty aroma right when it was opened but I really couldn't taste much. Like apfelwein, its tart and the apple taste is faint but good. I made the mistake of drinking Ed's apfelwein too early but I saved a few that are now at 10 months. It definately gets much better with age and I'm hoping these do too as I'm going to let them sit for another couple of months.

 

[hungry4hops]

How many times can yeast be washed and reused?

 

[Jukas]

How many times can yeast be washed and reused?

Common answer is that yeast shouldn't be reused past 5th generation.

From Earlier in the thread. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/yeast-washing-illustrated-41768/index3.html#post567284

I read somewhere that you should only propagate yeast for four generations. Don't jump on me here, I know some people pay no attention to that, but it's what I read.

Ok, let's say you buy a pack of yeast and make a batch of beer. That's one generation. You wash your yeast and collect four jars of yeast. You could do more, or less, I'm just using four as an example. You make four starters and four batches of beer out of those four jars. That's generation 2. You wash your yeast from the last jar and collect four more jars/batches. That's generation 3. Add four more for generation 4 and you have a total of thirteen batches of beer from the original pack. So that's potentially 65 gallon of beer from one pack of yeast. Or 130 gallons if you're like me and brew mainly ten gallon batches. Of course that's assuming you brew with all those saved yeasts before they go bad; they don't last forever.

 

[Jukas]

I just ran some napkin math and if the beer is your first gen and you get 4 jars of yeast from washing that, and you aggressively wash each subsequent batch into four jars you would end up with

2nd gen 4
3rd gen 16
4th gen 64

Total 84 batches of beer assuming my math is correct. However it's highly unlikely that most homebrewers would be able to make that many batches before the yeast lost viability.