Yeast Selection for a North American Dubbel

[SiriusStarr]

Hi all,

I'm going to be doing a partial mash Dubbel for my next brew (hacking together a recipe based on my own tastes from the many available online) and was wondering about yeast strains. I've spent much time on this forum and elsewhere reading up on the common strains used, but as I haven't used any of them myself, I don't have a great sense of the character of each. From the sounds of it, the most popular are Wyeast 3787, 1214, 1762, and 3522 (or whatever the White Labs equivalents are).

The complicating factor: Since these strains are all derived from Belgian breweries, it's not hard to select one if you're trying to clone a particular brewery's beer. I don't want to get into a debate over what's the best beer, obviously, but I personally do not care for most Belgian Belgians. All of my favorite Belgian style beers come from North American breweries, e.g. Unibroue, Anderson Valley, North Coast, Russian River, etc. In fact, I personally find many "authentic" Belgian ales distasteful; I had a glass of Chimay the other day that I couldn't finish. (The one exception to this is Affligem, whose tripel I adore.) Once again, not making any value judgments here; if you disagree with me, that's fine; I'm just stating what I personally enjoy. I would say that I don't feel that it is usually the yeast character that I object to in these beers (it often seems like the yeast character is a little more boring/lacking than some of the good North American Belgians I've had), however, but rather the choice of malts, etc.

So I was wondering, does anyone know which yeast strains tend to be used by North American breweries in Belgian styles, or does anyone have recommendations of what strains they've used before for a dubbel? Wyeast 3864 would be the obvious choice, since it's Unibroue's yeast, but it's of course not available. I haven't been able to find much information on the use of any of the other strains in beers I'm familiar with and enjoy.

Thanks.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

They usually use the strains that come out of Belgium.

 

[SiriusStarr]

They usually use the strains that come out of Belgium.

I assumed this was the case, just wasn't sure which ones. Any descriptions of the strains are appreciated too.

 

[tonyolympia]

Do a search on the Basic Brewing Radio web site for their episode "Kentucky Belgians." There's a great PDF document attached to that episode that details the results of a tasting panel experiment with the same wort was brewed with six different Belgian strains. (The White Labs versions.)

 

[SiriusStarr]

Do a search on the Basic Brewing Radio web site for their episode "Kentucky Belgians." There's a great PDF document attached to that episode that details the results of a tasting panel experiment with the same wort was brewed with six different Belgian strains. (The White Labs versions.)

Here's the link for future readers. It's the 01/26/2012 show.

Thanks for sharing this! It's a great resource. From looking at that, it looks like 540 (i.e. WY1762) might suit my tastes best in a dubbel. I'm looking for that rich, caramel/toffee flavor with some accenting fruit/spice from the yeast. 550 (i.e. WY3522) sounds like a great yeast for a tripel and I'm anxious to try it, but maybe too rich in spices and tropical fruit for a dubbel.

 

[tonyolympia]

550 (i.e. WY3522) sounds like a great yeast for a tripel and I'm anxious to try it, but maybe too rich in spices and tropical fruit for a dubbel.

I'm using Wyeast 3522 / WLP 550 in my next brew, a Belgian Tripel. Other than a couple of Saisons using the DuPont strain, this will be my first Belgian. 3522/550 sounds like it has a nice flavor profile, and I like that it's rated more flocculent than other Belgian strains.

 

[sjbeerman]

Here's the link for future readers. It's the 01/26/2012 show.

Thanks for sharing this! It's a great resource. From looking at that, it looks like 540 (i.e. WY1762) might suit my tastes best in a dubbel. I'm looking for that rich, caramel/toffee flavor with some accenting fruit/spice from the yeast. 550 (i.e. WY3522) sounds like a great yeast for a tripel and I'm anxious to try it, but maybe too rich in spices and tropical fruit for a dubbel.

If your looking for a caramel/toffee flavor then I would recommend using Belgian candi syrup. I would also be careful with some of the temps they used as fermenter geometry plays a role in the amount of esters and phenols generated. I used 1762 on a dark strong and started at 68 and ended at 72 and it didn't come out well and scored fairly poor at the NHC. I recently remade the brew and started at 64 and ended at 68. I'm currently awaiting the results.

 

[Halbrust]

as fermenter geometry plays a role in the amount of esters and phenols generated.

Care to elaborate for us here?

 

[sjbeerman]

Care to elaborate for us here?

Commercial breweries have much taller and wider fermenters than typical homebrew setups and the the distribution of heat throughout the primary is much different than on a homebrew scale. This is discussed in more details in "Brew Like a Monk." Therefore, the fermenter geometry plays a role in addition to pitch rate, oxygen concentration, and temperature regarding the development of esters and phenolic compounds.

 

[SiriusStarr]

If your looking for a caramel/toffee flavor then I would recommend using Belgian candi syrup. I would also be careful with some of the temps they used as fermenter geometry plays a role in the amount of esters and phenols generated. I used 1762 on a dark strong and started at 68 and ended at 72 and it didn't come out well and scored fairly poor at the NHC. I recently remade the brew and started at 64 and ended at 68. I'm currently awaiting the results.

I'll be using candi syrup, so no concerns there.

Could you elaborate on "it didn't come out well?" Too phenolic or too bland? From poking around, it sounds like this yeast should be pitched fairly cold (64ish) and then allowed to rise.

 

[sjbeerman]

I'll be using candi syrup, so no concerns there.

Could you elaborate on "it didn't come out well?" Too phenolic or too bland? From poking around, it sounds like this yeast should be pitched fairly cold (64ish) and then allowed to rise.

I think there was too much phenols. Even though I have temp control, the yeast just took off and I believe the temp rised faster than it could be cooled.

 

[ArcaneXor]

A few years ago I attempted an experiment with what was supposed to be an Abbey Malt-Styrian Goldings SMaSH - a split batch with a different yeast in each - S33 dry yeast and Wyeast 2565 Koelsch yeast. As it turned out, the Abbey malt didn't self-convert, so I added some Pale Ale malt to the mash. The results with the S33 were disappointing - sweet, one-dimensional, almost bland. The WY2565 version was lively, delicious, surprisingly complex and did bear a strong resemblance to a Belgian Dubbel, but lacking the phenolic flavors.

I can't guarantee that this will work every time (it was one of my first all grain batches - who knows what unusual things I did to that beer), but if you want to give it a shot, it's 67% Weyermann Abbey Malt and 33% Weyermann Pale Ale Malt for an OG of 1.066. 28 Rager IBUs, with a large FWH addition of 9 IBUs (note: in this case I calculated FWH like a 60-minute addition for bitterness), 14 IBUs from the 60-minute charge, and the rest from small, equal-sized additions at 20, 10, 5 and 0 minutes.

 

[phenry]

Wyeast 3864 is the Unibroue strain. At least that's what I assume Wyeast implies by its origin being Chambly.

 

[SiriusStarr]

Hm, so pitch cold and keep it pretty cold with 1762, it sounds like.

Kolsch yeast for a dubbel? Interesting... I would expect it to err on the side of too clean of a profile. I tend to feel like if you're not using Belgian yeast, you're not making a Belgian, but it just goes to show you there's no one right way to do anything.

Yes, 3864 is the Unibroue strain, but it's a private collection yeast and thus isn't available most of the time. Trust me, I will be maintaining a culture of it as soon as it comes out again.

 

[phenry]

Hm, so pitch cold and keep it pretty cold with 1762, it sounds like.

Kolsch yeast for a dubbel? Interesting... I would expect it to err on the side of too clean of a profile. I tend to feel like if you're not using Belgian yeast, you're not making a Belgian, but it just goes to show you there's no one right way to do anything.

Yes, 3864 is the Unibroue strain, but it's a private collection yeast and thus isn't available most of the time. Trust me, I will be maintaining a culture of it as soon as it comes out again.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/vssprogram.cfm?website=1

And it looks like you're in luck, 3864 is coming out next month. I'll definitely be picking some up, love doesn't describe my feelings for LFDM.

 

[SiriusStarr]

http://www.wyeastlab.com/vssprogram.cfm?website=1

And it looks like you're in luck, 3864 is coming out next month. I'll definitely be picking some up, love doesn't describe my feelings for LFDM.

Welp, time to look up how to maintain yeast cultures... XD