Yeast nutrient?

[kukubau]

Hi all

No time long see.
4 days ago I've started brewing my 2nd cider (60 liters) using the o'l good Notty yeast.

This time I could buy unpasteurized apple juice from a local farm in Germany where I live now.
I've sulfited it using a 10% SO2-Solution (Potassium Metabisulfite) 1 ml per liter ratio, not wanting to risk it being contaminated.
After 24 hours I've pitched the yeast without hydrating it, as Ive usually done, but after 24 hours I couldn't see any activity signs. Unfortunately I had to leave Germany for a short vacation and I don't have any idea if it had start fermenting. I haven't added any yeast nutrients as I haven't had any available. The room where the primary fermenter is, is pretty cold, around 20 degrees C.
Can I add yeast nutrients after 10 days to stimulate the yeast cells a bit? I guess 25 °C temperature were better for the Notty.

Greets

 

[dmtaylor]

Nutrients are unnecessary. I never use any and my ciders turn out great. For thousands of years no one used nutrient additions. It will all turn out just fine without any.

 

[Maylar]

20C/68F is fine. Yes you can add nutrients when you get back, if needed. I'm not sure what the sulfite is that you're using, but normally 50 to 100 parts per million is the usual dose. Too much will prevent fermentation for a while.

 

[Maylar]

Nutrients are unnecessary. I never use any and my ciders turn out great. For thousands of years no one used nutrient additions. It will all turn out just fine without any.

A few hundred years ago English cider makers discovered that there was less chance of a stalled fermentation if a couple rats drowned in the cider. They started adding raw meat, like hanging a side of beef or a leg of mutton in the vat. The acids in the cider would react with the meat and bring nitrogen into solution.

I think I'd rather put a bit of DAP in mine instead

 

[dmtaylor]

A few hundred years ago English cider makers discovered that there was less chance of a stalled fermentation if a couple rats drowned in the cider. They started adding raw meat, like hanging a side of beef or a leg of mutton in the vat. The acids in the cider would react with the meat and bring nitrogen into solution.

I think I'd rather put a bit of DAP in mine instead

So you're inferring that there's something wrong with a stalled fermentation. I don't agree. I like a bit of sweetness. Just call me Frenchie. I'm definitely of at least 0.1% French heritage, I think it was my great-great-great-grandmother on my father's father's father's father's father's side.

To each their own. I maintain that you really don't need DAP or dead rats to make good cider.

 

[ten80]

Stalled fermentation sucks if your cider ends way above your expected ending point. Unlikely, but possible if you have poor quality yeast, too low of a temperature, etc.

I don't think that nutrients are necessary for a typical cider and the addition of nutrients may cause a yeast to attenuate further than expected, resulting in an unexpectedly dry cider.

A safer option would be to add more yeast (preferably active) to your cider if there are no signs of fermentation. Active yeast should be able to continue a stuck fermentation if there are no other issues. Any SO2 should have offgassed from the cider by now.

 

[Maylar]

Stalled fermentation sucks if your cider ends way above your expected ending point. Unlikely, but possible if you have poor quality yeast, too low of a temperature, etc.

Low nitrogen levels can cause a stalled fermentation, even with healthy yeast. This is especially true with late season apples from orchards that don't use fertilizers. Some cider makers do that on purpose, as Dave alluded to above.

A safer option would be to add more yeast (preferably active) to your cider if there are no signs of fermentation. Active yeast should be able to continue a stuck fermentation if there are no other issues. Any SO2 should have offgassed from the cider by now.

Claude Jolicoeur writes in his book "The New Cidermaker's Handbook" that fermentation can be restarted by adding a controlled amount of nutrients and aerating the must. This is confirmed by British food scientist and cider geek Andrew Lea ("Craft Cider Making"). Empirical evidence suggests that 25 ppm DAP will drop gravity by another 10 points. The end point can thus be chosen by the amount of nitrogen added.

 

[ten80]

Good points Maylar. I think that the apples I press must have sufficient nitrogen as I have never had a stalled fermentation, even when adding honey for cysers.

I think that a fermentation that never takes off likely doesn't have a nutrient limitation as there would be no fermentation to consume whatever initial concentration of nutrients (including nitrogen) is present.

That was my thinking behind adding active yeast to get the fermentation going versus adding nutrients for this specific scenario.

 

[kukubau]

Thank you guys for your input. Do you think is it too late to add a some sugar/honey/DME/Dextrose to increase the final ABV%? The OG was 1.050 so an estimated 6% ABV%, that IF it ferments all the way down to 0.990 or 1.000.

 

[dmtaylor]

Thnk you guys for your input. Do you think is it too late to add a some sugar/honey/DME/Dextrose to increase the final ABV%? The OG was 1.050 so an estimated 6% ABV%, that IF it ferments all the way down to 0.990 or 1.000.

It's never too late. Go for it.

 

[ten80]

Thnk you guys for your input. Do you think is it too late to add a some sugar/honey/DME/Dextrose to increase the final ABV%? The OG was 1.050 so an estimated 6% ABV%, that IF it ferments all the way down to 0.990 or 1.000.

Sure, but you might want wait till you have confirmed that your yeast is active before adding more sugars.

I like to use honey at about 1 pound per gallon in my ciders and I prefer honey because simple sugars will just thin out the beer with no flavor contribution. 1 pound of honey will raise your gravity by about 35 points after you take into account the slight dilution from the volume of the honey.

Consider adding honey once your fermentation is about 1/2-2/3 complete so that the delicate honey flavor is not blown off by CO2 during the vigorous initial fermentation.

 

[kukubau]

My cider has fully fermented after 10 days. OG 1.050, FG 1.002, ABV=6.4%
Time to rack it and let it mature.