Why I avoid bars in my area

[40watt]

Expectations of the bartender need to be inline with the establishment. If this bar/dive features bud light, bud and coors, don't expect a black and tan, take your money to a finer establishment.

Also, not everyone that serves beer is a bartender, she could have been a waitress and most states require bartenders to be licensed, which includes a formal training, which includes the necessary instructions so that one has an ability to pour a shot of baileys/whiskey and to hand you a guiness so you can barf all over the bar.

This conversation has taken a turn or two. The OP was clearly referring to the sort of places that are common in rural areas, dives and honky tonks. All you need to be able to do is open a long neck.

In regards to anybody truly tending bar, why not take pride in your work. It is your comments that seem a little condescending to me.

 

[WhiskeyR]

I guess here in Houston we're very lucky. It seems like every single bar has an excellent beer selection, including beers of various microbreweries not yet owned by the big guys. Even the bars with less selection will at least have our locally made Saint Arnold brews. We've also got at least 5 bars with a selection of over 100 beers.

 

[cjb]

By the way she's fairly hot. Not centerfold hot or hot enough to overshadow the lack of gray matter, but you could do far worse on a night of drunken debauchery.

Pics or it didn't happen

 

[david_42]

Up here, even the dive bars have a few good beers available. Often cheaper than you can get them at the brewpubs!

 

[doctorRobert]

This conversation has taken a turn or two. The OP was clearly referring to the sort of places that are common in rural areas, dives and honky tonks. All you need to be able to do is open a long neck.

In regards to anybody truly tending bar, why not take pride in your work. It is your comments that seem a little condescending to me.

I'm the condescending one when everyone else is complaining that not enough servers know the difference between a guiness and bud light?

Sure ok.

The girl is paid to keep a clean bar and pour beer. Maybe she does take pride in that. You can be the best bartender to 99% of the population and not know a damn thing about guiness and how it differs from coors light, because they dont care.

 

[MeatyPortion]

Do what I do: find a bar you like and stick with it.

 

[Pilgarlic]

I'm the condescending one when everyone else is complaining that not enough servers know the difference between a guiness and bud light?

Sure ok.

The girl is paid to keep a clean bar and pour beer. Maybe she does take pride in that. You can be the best bartender to 99% of the population and not know a damn thing about guiness and how it differs from coors light, because they dont care.

Condescending? Maybe. Unnecessarily harsh and argumentative? Absolutely. A tad of arrogance? Well, at least a chip on the shoulder. But... 27. All I'm sayin'.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I know what you all mean. I called up a local bar and asked what new beers they had. They said they get shipments every week so the beers are fresh. I said no, what new beers do you have, not how fresh there are. He says, "oh well we just got in a few bottles of Pliny and Westvletern 12 and several new beers from breweries in Austin."

I hung up on him. I didn't even want to waste my words on him. I mean, come on, can't you stock something I can brag about drinking on Monday to all the BMC drinkers? Such a boring selection.

I won't even look at the outside of a bar if it doesn't serve at least two dozen beers made with 800 IBUs, 30 yeast strains, cherries, chocolate, coffee, unmalted wheat, heather, chokeberries, oak, beech, cedar, pumpkin, macadamia nuts, dandelion, soured for 18 years and blended with 12 other beers aged with seaweed that is so elite the bottle can only be opened with the black Centurion Amex card and the bartenders must be certified grandmaster wizard beer judges.

 

[Jota21]

Not to participate in the beer snobbery, because i agree with whoever said it earlier - it's more annoying than wine-snobbery, but I agree with MeatyPortion.

Do what I do: find a bar you like and stick with it.

My favorite bar is my favorite for a reason:

They have around 2 dozen taps, and besides Miller Lite, all are microbrews.
They're half price at happy hour! (same with wings, and all their food is awesome)
They update their website multiple times/week to show current drafts
They print a draft list everyday, it has the ABV and the price right next to it.

I hate it when menus dont show prices!!! Sure, I like Youngs Double Chocolate Stout, but i'm not going to pay $10 for it when Founders Breakfast Stout is $6

/rant

Oh yeah, the bartenders actually know the basics about how to describe a beer I have never tried before, and if it's brand new and they're not familair with it, they'll tell me what style it is, and say "Let me get you a taste of it"...

Definitely worth the generous tip!

 

[edmanster]

Because most people find beer snobs more annoying than wine snobs... If you're a beer snob you don't need an educated bartender, you're educated enough to decide which beer to order on your own.

I'm not a snob I'm a geek because one can never learn enough about beer.. If something is on tap I haven't herd or seen before I will ask a question before I buy a pint.. If the barkeep doesn't know then I will get it anyways and maybe give them advise on how to answer the next person who asked.. I'm not better than anyone else but have a good enough pallet and a open mind and that's a big difference between the two.. Sam from DFH said it best... But to stick your nose up over a brand and not a style because some just don't fancy a great IIPA or a Stout is snobbery.. With me there ain't nothing better than a BUD out playin 18 when I forget to brown bag my own...

 

[drunkengoblin]

This thread has definitely taken an unintended tone. No beer snobbery intended on my part. I figured you guys would enjoy a story of a beer lover's struggles in the middle of nowhere. I have nothing against BMC drinkers. I actually have nothing against BMC beers. I found it odd that Guinness, which was well known in every other place I've lived, is unheard of in my corner of the cornfield. I also found it odd that the idea of different styles of beer was baffling to this woman. If you want to call it beer snobbery, then go for it.

 

[40watt]

This thread has definitely taken an unintended tone. No beer snobbery intended on my part. I figured you guys would enjoy a story of a beer lover's struggles in the middle of nowhere. I have nothing against BMC drinkers. I actually have nothing against BMC beers. I found it odd that Guinness, which was well known in every other place I've lived, is unheard of in my corner of the cornfield. I also found it odd that the idea of different styles of beer was baffling to this woman. If you want to call it beer snobbery, then go for it.

Trust me you aren't a snob.

 

[doctorRobert]

Condescending? Maybe. Unnecessarily harsh and argumentative? Absolutely. A tad of arrogance? Well, at least a chip on the shoulder. But... 27. All I'm sayin'.

And am I the condescending one.

I don't think I'm being harsh, all I said was that this thread was full of snobbery.

And to the OP, I never intended to infer that I thought you specifically were a beer snob, but a lot of people were acting like one in this thread.

 

[BenjaminBier]

This thread has definitely taken an unintended tone. No beer snobbery intended on my part. I figured you guys would enjoy a story of a beer lover's struggles in the middle of nowhere. I have nothing against BMC drinkers. I actually have nothing against BMC beers. I found it odd that Guinness, which was well known in every other place I've lived, is unheard of in my corner of the cornfield. I also found it odd that the idea of different styles of beer was baffling to this woman. If you want to call it beer snobbery, then go for it.

I know what you mean - there are a couple of beer legends that you think pretty much everyone has heard about. If not, well, it's a chance to talk about craft beer with someone and make a good impression about people who like "dark beer."

Who knows, maybe if you figure out a way to talk about craft beers that makes sense to people, they'll try ordering a keg from their distributor.

Usually if I meet someone who doesn't know what craft beer or micro beer is, they at least know "dark beer" or "strong beer." If worst comes to worst, you could try "different beer."

 

[jaycount]

I was at a bar the other day that has about 20-30 beers on tap. Some alright microbrews. It's not a destination but it's ok.

I asked for a pint of Spaten Optimator. She walked up to the tap handles and they had 2 Spatens on tap. One of them clearly said "Optimator", I could read it from my side of the bar. She had to ask me which handle was the Optimator...

I don't ask for much but be able to read and tell me what you have on tap/in bottles. You don't even need to know styles. I have internet on my phone, I'll look it up if I need to know. But please please please know what you have and be able to read the taps/kegs/bottles.

 

[edmanster]

And to the OP, I never intended to infer that I thought you specifically were a beer snob, but a lot of people were acting like one in this thread.

+1... Water doesn't count as a social lubricant..lol... I will drink what my friends are drinking even if it gives me a headache just not as much if theres nothing better...

 

[MeatyPortion]

I was at a bar the other day that has about 20-30 beers on tap. Some alright microbrews. It's not a destination but it's ok.

I asked for a pint of Spaten Optimator. She walked up to the tap handles and they had 2 Spatens on tap. One of them clearly said "Optimator", I could read it from my side of the bar. She had to ask me which handle was the Optimator...

I don't ask for much but be able to read and tell me what you have on tap/in bottles. You don't even need to know styles. I have internet on my phone, I'll look it up if I need to know. But please please please know what you have and be able to read the taps/kegs/bottles.

Seriously, that's what gets me sometimes. It's not about beer knowledge; it's about basic competancy. Again though, find a bar you like and stick with it.

 

[BigBeachMuscles]

Same thing where i live. I asked if she had any microbrews in bottles, She was like "What's that?? You mean like sam adams??"

 

[wildwest450]

Seriously, that's what gets me sometimes. It's not about beer knowledge; it's about basic competancy. Again though, find a bar you like and stick with it.

Funny how you Keep saying that. That's why I only go to two or three local bars.

_

 

[beergolf]

I am pretty lucky where I live. Most of the bars have lots of very good brews.

In fact I am going to my favorite bar in about an hour. Monk's in Philly. Huge beer selection and super knowlegable staff. YUM.

 

[MeatyPortion]

Funny how you Keep saying that. That's why I only go to two or three local bars.

_

Same with me. When I spend money on a beer at a bar I want to know that I'm not going to have to deal with petty annoyances, hence why I go to the bars that I do.

 

[40watt]

Same thing where i live. I asked if she had any microbrews in bottles, She was like "What's that?? You mean like sam adams??"

For someone who doesn't know any better, at least she is on the right track.

 

[SwampassJ]

Same with me. When I spend money on a beer at a bar I want to know that I'm not going to have to deal with petty annoyances, hence why I go to the bars that I do.

WOB I can order food from any resturaunt around and have it delivered and I can order many good beers.

 

[gdev]

Aren't you missing a chance to educate? or at least make a request so something might change in the future? I mean weren't we all once people that only drank BMC? I know I certainly didn't always know about great types of beer and the variety that is out there.

 

[40watt]

Aren't you missing a chance to educate? or at least make a request so something might change in the future? I mean weren't we all once people that only drank BMC? I know I certainly didn't always know about great types of beer and the variety that is out there.

If you take care not to come off like an ass, this could be a noble cause. Without examples of different beer, it seems unlikely any difference could be made.

 

[NPK]

I also live in the middle of nowhere, IL similar to drunkengoblin. The city may not be that much different, but here are my thoughts on it...

I've hung out with different groups, drinking craft beers, and got the: it's dark/heavy/not Miller Lite/wouldn't want to drink it all night, etc, etc. Everyone generally hangs out with each other for the company of everyone else. A beer with much more flavor than a standard BMC can get in the way of that. Hell, glass bottles of BMC are looked at as a PITA. I've not bought BL for home in ages, but I have no problem drinking it while hanging with friends.

All we can do is provide information that there is more out there than BMC and give out samples to those who are willing to try. If they take to it and want to learn more...Great! If not, we need to let them enjoy what they want, and back off.

BMC and bourbon satisfies probably over 95% of the palates around here. I doubt bars are going to start sweating the 5% it doesn't.

 

[Mike_A]

BMC beers are good when buying a pack for a group of people - it's the "most common denominator". When I got friends who are die hard Bud fans or Miller fans, I get Coors. When I go to a bar and order a pitcher for the table, there's a good chance that's what it will be. If I order a pint for myself, I'll order whatever looks tasty and is available.

gdev has an extremely valid point in that most if not all people were at one time BMC drinkers and did not know the wonderful world of beer that existed beyond their confines.

I get up in a huff when people aren't even willing to explore different styles of beer simply out of stubbornness. These are the same type of people who will go to the same restaurant every week and order the same thing every time, without having tried anything else on the menu.

But the OP's post was just plain funny. Very much /facepalm.

 

[mlarnold]

Myself and one of the cooks in the adjoining restaurant ,fellow home brewer, have managed to educate the two establishments which doenst mean that we can talk the owner into stocking good beer, bmc's have there place and from what ive seen people come to a bar to get wasted not to enjoy a beer

 

[Pilgarlic]

Not really on topic, but, I went to a bar for happy hour tonight. We have our homebrew club meetings there. It's always been a bit annoying that they really didn't have good craft brews. Last week they added Cigar City Maduro (Brown Ale), Brooklyn Brewing Brown Ale, SN Glissade, Palm, Abita Purple Haze and one more I've forgotten. I sat there and had a Maduro and a Brooklyn Brown and thought "my beer at home is better than this". I also sampled the Palm and the Glissade. Here I am at home hoping the buzz wears off a bit so I can have on of MY beers.

 

[Slurm]

I don't like to think of myself as a beer snob -I was born and raised in the rural midwest, and am quite capable of enjoying a case of PBR... But I have become a bit of a beer geek: I know the difference between a porter and a stout -and I enjoy trying new beers, and talking about beers while drinking other beers.

 

[maffewl]

Honestly, if a bartender can hold a glass and pull a lever, I'm happy ...Also helps if she's hot.

+1... Oh wait... Were you talking about a draft lever?

 

[Pilgarlic]

I don't like to think of myself as a beer snob -I was born and raised in the rural midwest, and am quite capable of enjoying a case of PBR... But I have become a bit of a beer geek: I know the difference between a porter and a stout -and I enjoy trying new beers, and talking about beers while drinking other beers.

I've read long and nuanced debates about the difference between a porter and a stout, most concluding it doesn't REALLY exist. Enlighten us.

 

[doctorRobert]

I've read long and nuanced debates about the difference between a porter and a stout, most concluding it doesn't REALLY exist. Enlighten us.

And I'm the argumemtitive one?

Edit: maybe check out the bjcp style guidlines?

Sorry that was the chip on my shoulder.

 

[MeatyPortion]

WOB I can order food from any resturaunt around and have it delivered and I can order many good beers.

Yup, that's why I've started eating at home more. Every once in awhile I like to go down to Brasserie V, have a burger and some beers I've never heard of. Nice way to spend an hour or two.

http://www.brasseriev.com/

 

[motobrewer]

I sat there and had a Maduro and a Brooklyn Brown and thought "my beer at home is better than this". I also sampled the Palm and the Glissade. Here I am at home hoping the buzz wears off a bit so I can have on of MY beers.

wa wa wa my name is pilgarlic and i brew the best beer in the world wa wa wa

 

[r8rphan]

Amen brother. It's amazing the amount of tools on here who will bash anyone who can't recite a bjcp style guideline for every category. I require two things of my bartender, a nice smile and a bit of cleveage.


_

Werd Dat!!! :rockin:

I'm just continuing to read through this thread in hopes that eventually a picture of said bartendress appears.....

 

[Pilgarlic]

wa wa wa my name is pilgarlic and i brew the best beer in the world wa wa wa

na na na na boo boo to you, too.

 

[Pilgarlic]

And I'm the argumemtitive one?

Edit: maybe check out the bjcp style guidlines?

Sorry that was the chip on my shoulder.

Whelp.

While I'm at it, I'll send a set of the Style Guidelines to Martyn Cornell?

http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/so-what-is-the-difference-between-porter-and-stout/

 

[doctorRobert]

Whelp.

While I'm at it, I'll send a set of the Style Guidelines to Martyn Cornell?

http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/so-what-is-the-difference-between-porter-and-stout/

Still trying to pick a fight? I'll bite.

The answer is typically defined as the amount of roasted barley. But of course there is overlap between the styles just like nearly every other style.

Also neither Stout nor Porter is a bjcp style, but a category of styles. I'm sure you are capable of taking a look through the style guidelines to find a plethora of differences.

Are you trying to tell me that there is no discernible difference between a dry stout, a robust porter and a Russian imperial stout?

 

[Pilgarlic]

Actually, the only thing I said was that there is a legitimate debate as to whether a clear difference can be drawn between "Porter" and "Stout". I think there is, and that debate has been worn to shreds. Those on either side have brought BJCP into the debate in one way or another, but few would suggest that BJCP provides a final answer to this interesting question.

I am familiar with the guidelines and the difference between a category and a style, but I'm not at all sure how that bears on my suggestion that to simply state "I know the difference between a porter and a stout" begs an interesting question. Doc, I wasn't asking for, or providing, an answer. I was pointing to a question. My opinion? For what it's worth? The lines between "Porter" and "Stout" have become so blurred as to become essentially indiscernible. But I won't argue that... I'm not knowledgeable enough. Again... check my posts. No answer... just pointing to a question.

Now, as to interesting questions: Interesting questions get more interesting, not as people advance answers, but as they advance the question. That is, the question becomes polished and refined and becomes more enlightening and more interesting. We are, of course, tempted to say "That question is dead! Answered! (BJCP, Jamil, Palmer, your god here) said so! Look here!" That's not interesting, unless you're talking about a question like "is the world round or flat?" It's an almost religious approach ("The God in whom I trust has spoken.) The question as to the difference(s), if any, between a porter and a stout, is, I would hope you'd agree, not a simple question like that. Which is exactly why I offered no answer, just the question.

In general, I find questions, and those who advance them, more interesting than answers, and those who advance them, unless the question is black and white, which few interesting questions are.

I am not telling you you're wrong to deal with this kind of question by consulting the BJCP guidelines. But you'll miss many good questions by accepting the quick and obvious answer.

As to this question, Stout v Porter, I have your answer. Thanks.