When to go from Primary to Secondary (If at all)

[OctopusInk]

If I rack a beer too soon will it loose any ABV, or cause any harm to the final brew. I am in the habit of primary fermenting for a week and then just transferring to the secondary, however my Brown Ale is still bubbling every 40 seconds or so. Would it be too soon to transfer?

 

[JoeMama]

Just let it be for the time being and let the yeasties do their thing. (Unless you are desperate to start another batch and need the primary)

Check your FG readings as well - remember that you run the risk of oxidation when you xfer.
RDWHAHB
-me

 

[BRBrewer]

Hey guys... I have just bottled my first batch without going to a secondary... Fermentation seemed to finished very quickly within 4 days or so. I had a heater in place and I never seemed to notice the temp drop bellow 28 - 29 - 30*

I bottled it straight after the 4 days and when my hydrometer gave me a reading of roughly 1.0009 or 1.0010. That is if I read it right which hopefully I did. The airlock was not letting out bubbles very rapidly maybe 1 every like 4 - 5 minutes...

My brew seems a nice color but fairly cloudy. Will this mean its ruined? Or did I bottle to early?

 

[Poincare]

How is a brewer supposed to know when the fermentation is over? I'm using a kit and it recommended 5-7 days. I checked the hydrometer on day 7 and it was 1.014. This batch has been bottled now. Is this the right gravity to bottle at? How can I be certain fermentation is done (so I can bottle)? Or, what is the optimal time or how long can I leave the wort/brew in the fermenter without side effects?

 

[Malticulous]

How is a brewer supposed to know when the fermentation is over? How can I be certain fermentation is done (so I can bottle)?

When it's near the expected final gravity and you get the same reading three days in a row.

Or, what is the optimal time or how long can I leave the wort/brew in the fermenter without side effects?

It should be fine for up to three months.

 

[Poincare]

It should be fine for up to three months.

I have read the longer you leave your original wort in the fermenter the longer higher the chance of infection! So, it would seem to me leaving the original wort in the fermenter for 3 months would have a extremely high chance for bacteria infection!

 

[Yooper]

I have read the longer you leave your original wort in the fermenter the longer higher the chance of infection! So, it would seem to me leaving the original wort in the fermenter for 3 months would have a extremely high chance for bacteria infection!

How? If you sanitized before putting the wort in, and kept the primary closed except for checking the SG before bottling, how would the bacteria get in there? That doesn't make sense to me. Bacteria can't permeate through glass or plastic. The only "infection" I can think of is autolysis. The yeast cake at that time might become unhealthy and start to eat itself. That is a nasty, fecal smelling result of leaving it too long on the yeast cake. I don't know how long it is before it's a problem- you should be fine for up to 6 weeks, but I've heard that people have left it in the fermenter much longer.

Now, I've never left mine in primary more than 4 weeks.

 

[PtotheL]

one thing that has happened to me when i transferred to a secondary is a complete lack of carbonation in my beer once it's bottled. if you don't get it into the secondary at the right time, you'll end up with very little yeast left to carbonate the beer.

so there are some risks with using the secondary option.

personally, i've gotten my best flavor, clarity, and carbonation results by leaving my beer in my primary for three weeks then putting it in bottles for three more before even cracking the first one. often times, i will leave some of these in bottles for up to four or five months before i drink them.

woa, quoting from a year-old post...

Is it me or does this guy didn't understand the principle of priming for bottling ?

 

[JUSTBEERPLEASE]

So, I've got the beer in my primary..it's only been about 4 days.. all airlock activity has stopped (there wasn't a whole lot to begin w/), but I'm going to assume that it has fermented. I'm not planning on racking or bottling for at least another 2 weeks, which will remove all doubt that it has indeed fermented... along w/ my hydrometer readings.. but this brings me to my question. I can't decide whether or not to move to a secondary. My primary has a spigot and the only other vessel i have is a 5 gallon carboy. Am I correct in assuming that a glass carboy is not the ideal vessel for a bottling bucket? I'm leaning toward racking to a secondary for the very purpose of freeing up my bucket w/ a spigot for bottling. Also, when transferring the beer out of my primary, no matter what method I choose, is it ok to rack from the spigot and transfer that way? is there going to be enough room between the top of the yeast cake and the opening of the spigot?? any insights or comments would be appreciated.. this is my first batch. thanks.

 

[JoeMama]

Do yourself a favor and get a racking cane or autosiphon. Using the spigot may work for xferring your brew, but it will do a lot of splashing (oxidation) and chances are you will have a bit more trub on your secondary/bottles. I would day that your best bet would be to use the 2ndary to free your bottling bucket, and reutilize it upon bottling time. (This time with your autosiphon)
-Me

 

[JUSTBEERPLEASE]

that makes sense.. i am planning on getting an autosiphon eventually, it'll make things much easier i would imagine... but for now, I actually do have a racking cane, but that requires old school siphoning in which i have to hold the end tight.. when siphoning into a glass carboy, I'll have to let go of the end way up at the mouth of the glass.. won't that cause splashing as well?

 

[HoppyDaze]

I just read thru this post and anyone without a hydromter MUST get one. Without one, you run the risk of bottle bombs. They f***ing EXPLODE. A guy posted pics of a gash he sustained on his palm from one, could have easily cut his wrist veins wide open. Since I saw those pics I absolutely always use one, even though I always did anyway.

Are there visual indicators that a bottle is about to explode? What are the danger ranges on the hydrometer?

 

[HoppyDaze]

So I was told at the LHBS last night that it is ideal to go from primary to secondary only three days into fermentation. More specific at the point then the krauzen starts to settle back down. Then do it again if it continues to ferment vigorously in the secondary stage. To me this makes a lot of sense. The brewer says this maximizes the efficiency of the yeast. Meaning the yeast wont focus on the by product at the bottome since there will be much less of it in the secondary container. The only issue I see is further risk of contamination. Any thoughts on this? Anyone done two, three or even four ferments?

 

[Hugh_Jass]

So I was told at the LHBS last night that it is ideal to go from primary to secondary only three days into fermentation. More specific at the point then the krauzen starts to settle back down. Then do it again if it continues to ferment vigorously in the secondary stage. To me this makes a lot of sense. The brewer says this maximizes the efficiency of the yeast. Meaning the yeast wont focus on the by product at the bottome since there will be much less of it in the secondary container. The only issue I see is further risk of contamination. Any thoughts on this? Anyone done two, three or even four ferments?

I'm a noob myself, but from reading these boards, your LHBS has it backwards. Keeping the beer in the primary allows the yeast to clean up all of the by products produced during the fermentation process that might cause off flavors. Many very experienced brewers on these boards use no secondary vessel at all. It's 3-4 weeks in primary and 3 weeks in bottle. That's the path I intend to follow as well.
Cheers

 

[HoppyDaze]

Yeah Ive read that but transfering multiple times must cut way down on the evil sediment that we constantly try to reduce...

 

[Hugh_Jass]

Whether the beer remains in primary for 3-4 weeks or is transferred to a secondary, the sediment will fall out of suspension.

 

[HoppyDaze]

So I was told at the LHBS last night that it is ideal to go from primary to secondary only three days into fermentation. More specific at the point then the krauzen starts to settle back down. Then do it again if it continues to ferment vigorously in the secondary stage. To me this makes a lot of sense. The brewer says this maximizes the efficiency of the yeast. Meaning the yeast wont focus on the by product at the bottome since there will be much less of it in the secondary container. The only issue I see is further risk of contamination. Any thoughts on this? Anyone done two, three or even four ferments?

any other thoughts on this?

 

[Yooper]

any other thoughts on this?

How many do you need? We have many threads (including this one) dedicated to this discussion.

I know that some very good brewers (I believe TxLaw is one) does do a "secondary" fermentation, where he transfers the beer that isn't quite finished into a new fermenter. Most of us wait until the beer is at FG and then rack it (or wait a couple more weeks, and then rack it).

Each time you transfer the beer, there are some risks. Contamination and oxidation are unlikely but still real risks. Stalling the fermentation by racking too soon is also a possibility.

I'm a believer in the "leave it alone" camp. I leave it in the primary fermenter for 10 days to four weeks, depending on my plans for that beer. If it's being dryhopped, I move it a few days after fermentation finishes so I can dry hop in secondary. If not, then I will leave it longer.

I do think that too many people are unduly concered about leaving it sit in the fermenter until it's finished.

Now, to answer the specific question: "So I was told at the LHBS last night that it is ideal to go from primary to secondary only three days into fermentation. More specific at the point then the krauzen starts to settle back down. Then do it again if it continues to ferment vigorously in the secondary stage. To me this makes a lot of sense. The brewer says this maximizes the efficiency of the yeast. Meaning the yeast wont focus on the by product at the bottome since there will be much less of it in the secondary container" all I can say to that is "huh?" Why would the yeast focus on the by products? That makes no sense at all, and isn't how it works. All those transfers would do is force the yeast still in suspension to work harder to ferment the wort.

 

[southern_brewer]

i found my start sg wa

 

[southern_brewer]

my first all grain beer is in the secondary now

5 kilos of pale malt
1 kilo of crystal malt

this is a dark larger category reason for extra crystal and for the reason the brew shop mixed both in to the same bag when it was crushed i hate when that happens . Plan for a dark larger if that happens or pay a kid to separate it with chop stick for 5 dollars and hour .

and i used two hops at various times through the boil
tettnang and Hallertau .

i found my start gravity was 1.050
and my final gravity was 1.003

before transferring to my secondary where it is at the moment .

it kinda happend fast also it took about 13 days to ferment most of the sugar in the primary Another reason never to go by the air lock as to me it didn't seem to bubble as much as some of the home brew kits i have done in the past .

in about 2-4 weeks i am hoping to keg and gas the beer in the fridge in my bar.

i have read in a few posts way back where people need a blow off tube with certain beer and not with others .

this is generally with the dark malt beers like stout dark lagers and dark ales for some reason if your going to brew these beers its better to have a large head room in your primary ferment er as they can generate a lot of foam onto of the wort and if you have a small head space that foam has to go some where and it usually blocks up your airlock and blows the top of your primary fermeter with a big sticky mess to clean up.

a use of a large tube blow off tube into a gallon water container can stop you cleaning up a big mess and generally wont get blocked up use a 1 inch tube on your primary when doing a dark beer and your air lock on your secondary .

 

[histo320]

So from what I have read. Basically, 1 week in Primary is enough correct? I am wanting to transfer to secondary on Sat, (will have been fermenting for 7 days), then brew a new batch for the primary.

I think I will try the 1-2-3 method.

 

[cantari]

moved... .

 

[TerapinChef]

So from what I have read. Basically, 1 week in Primary is enough correct? I am wanting to transfer to secondary on Sat, (will have been fermenting for 7 days), then brew a new batch for the primary.

I think I will try the 1-2-3 method.

Depends. An English bitter might be done after seven days. My Belgian Dark Strong has been fermenting for almost six weeks, and it's still not done. You just need to check your hydrometer, check your hydrometer, check your hydrometer.

 

[HoppyDaze]

Question: when transferring from a primary to a secondary what is the best procedure for getting the most amount of beer from the primary without getting into and also transfering the trub at the bottom? Especially if the primary is a bucket that you cant see through. I am both worried about wasting beer and sucking up a bunch of sediment into the secondary rendering it a waste of time

 

[JUSTBEERPLEASE]

so, i'm a bit worried about the amount of head space in my secondary. I'm dry hopping and i racked from a 6.5 gal bucket into a 5gallon carboy. i clearly lost a lot of beer to the boil and also some hesitation at the end of my racking (i was afraid to siphon the trub so i left more beer behind than i should have and i would say there's a good 5.5 inches of head space in the carboy.
i'm wondering how much affect this will have. does too much head space guarantee oxidation?

 

[jimmymcfarlson]

Im new to homebrewing and just wondering if wheat beers need secondary fermentation. It is just a simple German wheat extract kit and has been in primary for 3 weeks.

 

[vespa2t]

Question: when transferring from a primary to a secondary what is the best procedure for getting the most amount of beer from the primary without getting into and also transfering the trub at the bottom?

dont worry about it too much. Your racking cane wont pick up all that much, just dont move it around. Some will get transfered, but it might be a couple ounces compared to a couple pounds left behind.

Im new to homebrewing and just wondering if wheat beers need secondary fermentation. It is just a simple German wheat extract kit and has been in primary for 3 weeks.

you dont have to, as long as you are at your FG. I like to so that it clears up a bit, and I usually dry hop or add some raspberries in secondary.

does too much head space guarantee oxidation?

no, as long as there is still active fermentation going on and the CO2 purges the headspace. I tend to worry more about lack of headspace rather than too much...

 

[Couldbebrewing]

In the process of brewing our first batch. This forum has been very helpful. Wish i would have done a little more research before we just jumped in head first. I found one of the most confusing things at first are the hydrometer readings.

Now the first question. I have seen some tutorials that use a satelite primary fermenter to test the SG of the brew during the process. The one in particular i saw they used the hydrometer tubing and pored a sample of the beer that they obtained with a sanitized glass before the start of the primary stage. After the initial reading they placed it in a empty beer bottle and allowed to ferment in the same area as the primary and used this to check there readings so they wouldnt have to open the primary fermenter. Any idea on to how accurate these readings would be?

 

[vespa2t]

The one in particular i saw they used the hydrometer tubing and pored a sample of the beer that they obtained with a sanitized glass before the start of the primary stage. After the initial reading they placed it in a empty beer bottle and allowed to ferment in the same area as the primary and used this to check there readings so they wouldnt have to open the primary fermenter. Any idea on to how accurate these readings would be?

As long as santitation is kept a priority, the most accurate would be to sample from the primary (or secondary) and check it. I havent ever done this alternate method, but sounds like there could be error since the fermentation temps could be different from the small mass and the large mass, thus causing slightly different fermentation rates...

 

[Couldbebrewing]

As long as santitation is kept a priority, the most accurate would be to sample from the primary (or secondary) and check it. I havent ever done this alternate method, but sounds like there could be error since the fermentation temps could be different from the small mass and the large mass, thus causing slightly different fermentation rates...

That is what i was thinking as well when i saw it. I guess it gives you a rough idea of where your fermentation is at without having to take a sample from your primary multiple times and risking contamination. I am going to try this technique with my next batch and see how they compare at each hydrometer reading. If the difference is minimal then i am sure i could repeat it. if not, no loss.

 

[reim0027]

I use a White Labs Liquid yeast, and do a yeast starter (even though it says I don't have to). I leave my beer in the primary fermentor for 1 week. I am afraid to remove the lid (thereby introducing oxygen into the mix every time I open it) to check the SG. Typically, after a few days of bubbling, the bubbles slow down significantly. When I rack it over to the secondary fermentor (5 gallon carboy), I check the SG. In all of my 3 batches (I know, not many), the SG has been very close to my target FG.

Once in the secondary fermentor, I start taking readings every few days. Since there is much less headspace, I am not as concerned about introducing O2 into the mix. I have found the SG drops only slightly over the first week or so, then stays constant. Once it is constant, then I leave it for a few more days (or a minimum of 2 weeks) to let the yeast flocculate. Sometimes, I leave it in there longer. Since, I am starting with a liquid yeast (with a high number of CFUs), and doing a starter kit (which increases the CFUs), there is more yeast to flocculate. It is good to know I can leave it for much longer withouit worry of autolysis.

Then, I bottle, agitate in 1 week, then check the carbonation in 2-3 weeks (from the start of bottling). So, I was doing the 1-2-3 method on accident (I haven't heard of it until now).

Questions (assuming you took the time to read through all of this):
1. Should I worry about removing the lid from my primary fermentor to check the SG?
2. Are there any specific beer types that require more precise timing for moving to the secondary fermentor?

 

[MVKTR2]

Been at this a year now with 11 batches under my belt... hmmm 55 gallons... has a nice ring! My word isn't gospel, but I just wanted to throw my hat in the ring with those "lazy" brewers that leave the bier in the primary for approx. 3 weeks. Got to love a hobby that rewards lazyness... errr I mean patience. That's my SOP on any normal below 1.060 SG bier. Fwiw I use an ale pale for primary fermentation and have had no oxidation etc. problems from leaving bier in a plastic bucket for up to 24 days. My local HB club has a Master level bjcp judge that says my brewing practices are solid as he hasn't detected any off flavors. I trust his palate a lot more than mine!!!

Schlante,
Phillip

 

[Tealc]

Hi all!

I've been reading through the whole thread now, trying to learn as much as I can before asking questions. I bought a kit of "Cooper's Real Ale" just to get started, but I want to get a result as good as possible to inspire me to go on. All I have is one fermenting bucket, so my original plan was to keep the brew in the primary until bottling time. I do not have any bucket with a spigot, and it seems hard to find one where I live. My concern is how to add the priming sugar at bottling. I was told to just put a small amount of sugar in each bottle, but I fear it's going to be hard to measure the correct amount this way.

If I understand it correctly, I should have at least a primary fermenting bucket and a bottling bucket, and optionally a secondary bucket. Or would it be easy enough to skip the bottling bucket aswell?

My second question is about the hydrometer. Is it necessary to take a sample of beer from the primary and put in a separate container for the measuring, or can I put the hydrometer directly into the primary? As I understand from previous posts, there should be a layer of CO2 on top of the brew to protect it even if the lid is opened? I've never done this before, so I would appreciate some help

 

[reim0027]

I would recommend getting a second "bottling" bucket. That way, you can add the priming sugar to that bucket, then your beer. Then with gentle mixing, you can ensure even distribution. You don't need a spigot for the bottling bucket (but it helps).

I don't know the answer to your second question. I assume as long as the hydrometer is sanitized, it won't be a problem. But, I have never done that.

Welcome, BTW

 

[Throckmorton]

I should find out the true test if plastic is good long term. Been lazy and left my pale ale on the trub in the plastic fermentor for a good two months now... maybe longer. Plan on bottling today.

 

[MauiMaltMan]

IMO, If you're doing a simple brew (without secondary flavoring) a secondary is optional.

A Secondary Will:
+ Reduce the Chance of Gushers, Bottle Bombs, and Over Carbonation if you Carb in the bottle (not on tap.)
+ Clear the Beer and give it that nice "translucent" look
- Add one or two weeks in addition to bottle carbing...making you wait longer to drink your brew (this seems to only be a problem for rookie brewers...)

IMO, you MUST do a secondary and consider a clearing (tertitiary) stage when working with fruit in the primary/secondary. The one time I dismissed a tertitiary, I ended up with 2 foot gushers and an unhappy date covered in mango wheat.

Right now, I am making a standard light ale, so I will be skipping the secondary in favor of adding one week (2 weeks total) in the primary.

Bubbles are an inaccurate way to measure fermentation BC of interfering variables such as temperature, atmospheric pressure, etc. If you want to have a scientific number to tell you when to move, get a hygrometer.

IMO, the egyptians, vikings, and early american settlers didn't have hygrometers and they seemed to make good beer.

Here's the simple steps to getting good at making beer:
1) Try it
2) succeed or fail
3) Adjust appropriately

"May the Yeast be with You."

 

[mahilly]

New old guy here - back to brewing my first batch in ten years. I've read much of this thread and the consensus seems to be that clearing a batch in a secondary for 2 or 3 weeks is no problem. However, my ingredient kit (Scotch Ale) came with a gelatin packet (to be added in the secondary), but says not to let it clear for more than 2 to 3 days or there wont be enough yeast left over for carbination after bottling. True? Not true? What say you experts?

My fermentation is at day 8 and ready to go to the next step. Just trying to decide whether to transfer to a secondary (with gelatin), or skip the gelatin and just let it clear in the primary for a few more days before bottling.

Thanks for any feedback. Mike.

 

[Orfy]

Take a look at it. If it seems clear enough then don't bother.
If you need it and want to go to secondary then pitch it a few days before bottling.

I personaly would leav it in primary until it clears. If it doesn't I'd pitch the gerlitine in the primary them keg/bottle 3 days after.

 

[mahilly]

Thanks! One more question...i used my bottling bucket (7 gal. plastic bucket w/ spigot) as the fermenter. If let it clear for a few more days should I just bottle straight from that bucket? or will it stir up the yeast cake and cloud my bottles? Or should I rack to my other bucket (that doesn't have the spigot) and bottle from that one using a cane/siphon? Did I mention it's been 10 years since I last brewed beer;> Thanks!!!

 

[MBM30075]

I did a Hefe a couple of weeks ago. OG was 1.051 @ 72 degrees (1.052 corrected). After 4 days in primary, almost all bubble activity had stopped. I removed the lid and had a lot of foam on top, so I re-capped for another 2 days. After 2 more days (6 days total in primary), I took a gravity reading and it said 1.013 @ 72 degrees (1.014 corrected). So I racked to secondary and let it sit for 3 days. (This is only my third batch, so I'm still short on stock and impatient ).
When bottling, just messing around (after everything was bottled) I took a gravity reading and it was in the higher teens (something like 1.016 or 1.017).
After reading a good bit on this forum, I'm concerned about bottle bombs, especially since I'm bottle aging my stuff in my son's room (his room stays the most constant temperature in the winter: right around 70 degrees!).

Should I move the bottles out to somewhere else, like a closet, to prevent injury? If it helps, 2 days after bottling, I tried some of the hefes, and they were great! Fully carbonated and everything!

What to do?