Whats the TRUTH about dry yeast? Liquid vs. Dry

[Dylan42]

So I went to a beginners extract brew class at my LHBS (very informative). There we spent a few hours brewing, tasting, and watching the early 90's Papazian video (VHS):rockin: In the video Papazian pitches a packet of dry yeast. The LHBS owner teaching the class, whom I believe to be a very experienced home brewer, mentioned that dry yeast is sort of a thing of the past, and the liquid yeast forms are much more effecient/practical for home brewing today.

Now I have had no issues whatsoever using Wyeast packs or Cal lab vials, but I have seen there are still quite a few people on hear using dry yeast.

So I would like to know the pros and cons between the two. Is a type of yeast form dependent on the beer style? Or is it just preference?

 

[Shooter]

Dry yeast of the past was terrible. It is much better these days. There may be certain advantages and disadvantages of the different liquid packages as well as dry yeast, covered fairly well in other threads, but, generally, you are good using either form.

 

[kh54s10]

If you use liquid yeasts you should be making starters to use them properly.
If you want more variety - use liquid yeasts.
If you want to brew on the spur of the moment - dry yeasts can be used quickly.
If you mail order yeasts in mid summer temperatures - dry yeasts cause fewer problems.

Either is acceptable when used within optimal parameters.

 

[Dylan42]

I just found my answer in the Pros and cons in the Beg brewing forum. Thanks for chiming in guys.
Mods feel free to delete.

 

[cgg]

For most American and English ales, I use dry yeast and find them excellent and cost effective. For specialty ales I need the more specific strains only available in liquid form. They both have a place in modern homebrewing.

 

[BigFloyd]

Did your LHBS owner bother to mention to the beginner brewers that, for most 5 gallon batches using liquid yeast, you need to make a starter to get a sufficient cell count unless you want to buy (from him, $$ cha-ching!) multiple vials/smack packs?

There's nothing at all wrong with using dry yeast. In fact, until you're ready to begin making starters, it can produce better results than seriously underpitching a liquid yeast. Also, dry yeast doesn't usually require the same level of oxygenating your wort as does liquid.

Liquid lets you get very specific when it comes to certain styles, especially certain ones that focus on yeast character. I use it, harvest it, rinse it, store it and culture it.

You can cover a lot of ale brewing territory, however, with US-05, Nottingham and S-04.

 

[JoeSpartaNJ]

I only use dry yeast. Just easier for me and predictable.

I use the US-05 for hoppy beers and usually Nottingham for my maltier/darker ales. I also have used the new BRY-97 West Coast yeast and liked the results.

 

[Tubbster85]

Is this LHBS located in kitsap county by any chance?? I have used both dry and liquid, no starter and still have had great results. Always more than one way to make great beer.

 

[Dylan42]

Do you really NEED to do a starter with liquid yeast though? The wyeast smack pack says its perfectly good to pitch into a wort that is 1.060 and below.

 

[stevo4361]

No don't NEED to, but it goes better and faster in my experience. Starters are insanely easy to do, and work even without stir plates. A bottle or jug, DME, and tinfoil and you're good to go.

 

[afr0byte]

Do you really NEED to do a starter with liquid yeast though? The wyeast smack pack says its perfectly good to pitch into a wort that is 1.060 and below.

No, you don't NEED to, but if you're not going to do a starter(and you're doing an American/British style) you'd be better off going with dry yeast.

 

[TNGabe]

Also, dry yeast doesn't usually require the same level of oxygenating your wort as does liquid.

Exsqueeze me?

 

[afr0byte]

Exsqueeze me?

Supposedly dry yeast come packed with the sterols used when building cells walls (when the yeast are reproducing). Normally liquid yeast use the oxygen we provide to produce these sterols.

 

[BigFloyd]

Supposedly dry yeast come packed with the sterols used when building cells walls (when the yeast are reproducing). Normally liquid yeast use the oxygen we provide to produce these sterols.

This ^^^^^^^ kind of. Dry yeast cells first have to rebuild cell walls (best done in warm tap water). They can then begin reproducing.

From Danstar - "During its aerobic production, dry yeast accumulates sufficient amounts of unsaturated fatty acids and sterols to produce enough biomass in the first stage of fermentation. The only reason to aerate the wort when using wet yeast is to provide the yeast with oxygen so that it can produce sterols and unsaturated fatty acids which are important parts of the cell membrane and therefore essential for biomass production."

I bubble O2 through a 0.5 micron stainless aeration stone when using liquid yeast. For the occasional simple ale recipe (like a SMASH) in which I'll use rehydrated dry yeast, I just aerate by splashing through a strainer.

 

[TNGabe]

This ^^^^^^^ kind of. Dry yeast cells first have to rebuild cell walls (best done in warm tap water). They can then begin reproducing.

From Danstar - "During its aerobic production, dry yeast accumulates sufficient amounts of unsaturated fatty acids and sterols to produce enough biomass in the first stage of fermentation. The only reason to aerate the wort when using wet yeast is to provide the yeast with oxygen so that it can produce sterols and unsaturated fatty acids which are important parts of the cell membrane and therefore essential for biomass production."

I bubble O2 through a 0.5 micron stainless aeration stone when using liquid yeast. For the occasional simple ale recipe (like a SMASH) in which I'll use rehydrated dry yeast, I just aerate by splashing through a strainer.

Huh, that's new to me. So I guess aeration is also unnecessary if you pitch yeast at krausen?

I don't think tap water should be used to rehydrate. It needs to be sterile water.

 

[Dan-]

Generally, pure O2 aeration is serious overkill unless you're making high gravity lagers or RIS's.

Single packs of liquid yeast are sufficient below 1.050 OG with no starter necessary.

Dry yeast gives me terrible headaches (so I assume this can happen to others).

 

[BigFloyd]

Huh, that's new to me. So I guess aeration is also unnecessary if you pitch yeast at krausen?

I don't think tap water should be used to rehydrate. It needs to be sterile water.

From Dr. Clayton Cone (yeast guru for Lallemand) -

"Let me give you some facts regarding rehydration and you can decide for
yourself where you want to compromise.
Every strain of yeast has its own optimum rehydration temperature. All of
them range between 95 F to 105F. Most of them closer to 105F. The dried
yeast cell wall is fragile and it is the first few minutes (possibly
seconds) of rehydration that the warm temperature is critical while it is
reconstituting its cell wall structure.

As you drop the initial temperature of the water from 95 to 85 or 75 or 65F
the yeast leached out more and more of its insides damaging the each cell.
The yeast viability also drops proportionally. At 95 – 105 F, there is
100% recovery of the viable dry yeast. At 60F, there can be as much as 60%
dead cells.

The water should be tap water with the normal amount of hardness present.
The hardness is essential for good recovery. 250 -500 ppm hardness is
ideal. This means that deionized or distilled water should not be used.

What I do is to boil some tap water in a Pyrex measuring cup , cover it with sanitized foil, and let it cool to around 100*F. Works like a champ.

 

[eastoak]

Generally, pure O2 aeration is serious overkill unless you're making high gravity lagers or RIS's.

Single packs of liquid yeast are sufficient below 1.050 OG with no starter necessary.

Dry yeast gives me terrible headaches (so I assume this can happen to others).

that's a new one. do you get headaches from reused dry yeast or just the initial dry yeast from the packet?

 

[BigFloyd]

There's nothing about dry yeast that I've ever heard which would even remotely cause headaches. Once it rehydrates and rebuilds cell walls, it's just like liquid yeast.

More likely, the headaches are a result of fusel alcohols from fermenting to hot.

 

[shoreman]

Dry yeast makes great beer - I can't really think of any cons with it - it stores well and is pretty simple to use right out of the pack. There are many great strains available now including a saison and hefe strain.

If you want easy, reliable yeast go with dry
If you want alot of variety go with liquid but there's more work to be done like making a starter.

 

[stbnj]

I have been on a dry yeast kick lately, I probably have about 15 packets in the fridge of several varieties. I am in the process of picking one American Ale yeast to rule them all, between S05, BRY97 and Mangrove Jacks West Coast. But anyway, my favorite thing about dry yeast is that I don't need a starter. This makes it much easier to brew suddenly if the opportunity presents itself.

 

[TNGabe]

From Dr. Clayton Cone (yeast guru for Lallemand) -

"Let me give you some facts regarding rehydration and you can decide for
yourself where you want to compromise.
Every strain of yeast has its own optimum rehydration temperature. All of
them range between 95 F to 105F. Most of them closer to 105F. The dried
yeast cell wall is fragile and it is the first few minutes (possibly
seconds) of rehydration that the warm temperature is critical while it is
reconstituting its cell wall structure.

As you drop the initial temperature of the water from 95 to 85 or 75 or 65F
the yeast leached out more and more of its insides damaging the each cell.
The yeast viability also drops proportionally. At 95 – 105 F, there is
100% recovery of the viable dry yeast. At 60F, there can be as much as 60%
dead cells.

The water should be tap water with the normal amount of hardness present.
The hardness is essential for good recovery. 250 -500 ppm hardness is
ideal. This means that deionized or distilled water should not be used.

What I do is to boil some tap water in a Pyrex measuring cup , cover it with sanitized foil, and let it cool to around 100*F. Works like a champ.

I guess I should have said 'I don't think you want to use unboiled tap water'.

 

[Molybedenum]

I've used both - just finished an extra pale ale with S-05, and have an excellent super saison from Belle. I also brewed a pils with a WL vial, and a strong Belgian with a Wyeast.

My anecdotal evidence points at there being no real difference. All the beers turned out fine or great, with the only issues stemming from the choice of malt bill.

As long as you don't use the tiny Munton's sachet that Midwest ships by default, you'll be golden.

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

If cell count was an issue, couldn't one rehydrate a dry yeast at the right temperature range (95-105F), let it cool to pitch temperature, then make a starter as if it were a liquid yeast (as at point, if it were properly rehydrated, it would be)?

 

[passedpawn]

I just found my answer in the Pros and cons in the Beg brewing forum. Thanks for chiming in guys.
Mods feel free to delete.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/vs-pro-con-analysis-109318/#post1204665

I'll let the discussion go on because that's how forums work. Have at it.

 

[BigFloyd]

I guess I should have said 'I don't think you want to use unboiled tap water'.

Agreed.

If cell count was an issue, couldn't one rehydrate a dry yeast at the right temperature range (95-105F), let it cool to pitch temperature, then make a starter as if it were a liquid yeast (as at point, if it were properly rehydrated, it would be)?

Actually, you can if you'd like. If you're going to make a starter using dry yeast, that's how you would properly do it (vs. sprinkling it dry into starter wort which is not a good idea as it kills too many cells). The reason most folks don't is that the price of buying a second packet of dry yeast (for an ale over 1.060) isn't much more than what you'd spend on making the starter wort to culture the additional cells.

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

Actually, you can if you'd like. If you're going to make a starter using dry yeast, that's how you would properly do it (vs. sprinkling it dry into starter wort which is not a good idea as it kills too many cells). The reason most folks don't is that the price of buying a second packet of dry yeast (for an ale over 1.060) isn't much more than what you'd spend on making the starter wort to culture the additional cells.

I'm not sure where you folks are buying your yeast, but an 11g packet of Nottingham is pushing $4 around here. If I had to get more yeast a quart starter would cost me all of a $1 in DME, if that. And wouldn't that starter beer actually become a part of your full batch anyway? True, at worst it is only $4 for a convenient second packet, but some penny-pinchers might take issue with that.

I've never made a starter, but I am thinking that I may try it as I made some dissappointing beers recently and I think it may have something to do with my pitch rate for those brews, so it is something to which I need to pay attention.

 

[Dylan42]

I went ahead and made a starter, figured it couldn't hurt anything. Will be using it tomorrow morning.

 

[jbguzzi]

Lots of good stuff. Its all about the yeast. I always make a starter, and i love using dry yeast. I have been rehydrating with go-ferm. Works great. Healthy yeast=great beer.

 

[limulus]

I only use dry yeast. Just easier for me and predictable.

I use the US-05 for hoppy beers and usually Nottingham for my maltier/darker ales. I also have used the new BRY-97 West Coast yeast and liked the results.

These are also my go to strains. I never make a starter. Nottingham is really fast too and within 12hrs, I normally have vigorous fermentation.

 

[JoeSpartaNJ]

These are also my go to strains. I never make a starter. Nottingham is really fast too and within 12hrs, I normally have vigorous fermentation.

Lately I have been getting activity within 4 hours. I brewed a batch of pale ale on Saturday, full fermentation by Sunday morning. This morning I noticed the krausen already beginning to fall. Gotta love Safale 05.