What is that horrible smell?!

[worlddivides]

So, I finished reading American Sour Beers about two weeks ago and started my first Berliner weisse a couple days ago. I think I have a solid recipe, true to style, and should make an awesome beer. I sour worted it in the primary for 73 hours (no hops, no boil), then transferred it back to the kettle today to kill off the Lactobacillus and do the normal boil (1 ounce of Hallertau Mittelfruh for 45 minutes, plus some yeast nutrient and Whirlfloc).

While fermenting at 90F to 115F, the wort had a pretty normal smell. When I moved it from the fermenter to the kettle, the smell was a little different from normal, mainly the additional smell of the lactic acid, I think, but it wasn't a bad smell. While I boiled it, it gave me the biggest and most persistent hot break I have ever seen. The smell started to get nasty around there, but once it switched into a rolling boil, the smell started to become more "normal." By the time the boil was done, the wort smelled pretty normal. The flavor of the wort at the time I took the gravity sample was REALLY nice.

But what's odd is how the entire apartment smells now. My wife came home and said it smells like "poop." I told her that I brewed today, but she said that no beer I have ever brewed before has smelled anything like this. This is the first beer that smells like "poop." I agree that whatever the smell is is nasty, but the crazy thing is how much the smell lingers.

Is this normal? I have heard that sour beers can smell nasty while they're fermenting, but this is weird, considering how it didn't smell bad when it was fermenting or after I boiled it, but while I was boiling it, it gave off some nasty smells and now the whole apartment is permeated with this smell.

Any insight?

EDIT: After further research, my wife and I think it might be the smell of the trees outside, since they got trimmed and cut today, and the horrid "poop smell" went away after we closed all the windows. Either way, there is still the fascinating subject of how the smell of the wort/beer changed before boil, start of boil, later into boil, and then cooled after boil.

 

[microbusbrewery]

Ha, I hope it was the trees. Our local landfill processes green waste into mulch. I've used it before because it's waaaaaay cheaper than buying mulch at Lowe's...but it smells horrible for the first few days, so I can imagine it being from the trees.

If exposed to O2, you can get some pretty horrible aromas from lactobacillus, but I'd describe it more as "hot summer garbage can". I've never really had bad aroma from my sours, other than occasionally some sulfur, but that's only temporary. If you managed to keep O2 away, my money is on the trees.

 

[Agate]

What did you have for dinner the night before? Sure, blame it on the trees!

 

[worlddivides]

To be honest, I'm not too sure it is the trees since that smell cannot be smelled outside of the apartment. It's the next day and the smell is still lingering.

The only real possible culprit is the Berliner weisse, but the fermenter that I soured it in doesn't smell like that, the fermenter I'm doing primary fermentation for it in doesn't smell like that, and the brew kettle doesn't smell like that. Granted, I thoroughly cleaned and sanitized everything after I used it, but it makes me really wonder... What is that smell...?

Like I said, my wife think it smells like poop. I'm not sure what I think it smells like. Definitely not poop, but not anything pleasant either. Hm...

 

[BGBC]

Animal got trapped in the wall after losing its nest in the tree trimming and died in the walls?

Any pets?

 

[worlddivides]

Animal got trapped in the wall after losing its nest in the tree trimming and died in the walls?

Any pets?

No pets.

I think I'm going to go get a think of Febreze since the smell still isn't going away and its existence corresponds almost exactly with the boiling of the soured wort.

Very confused, especially since I can't find a point of origin of the smell. It's strongest in the living room, even though I brewed in the kitchen and cooled the wort down in the bathroom (where the smell is either very weak or non-existent).

 

[microbusbrewery]

Did you spill any?

 

[worlddivides]

Did you spill any?

A tiny bit of it splashed on the kitchen floor, but it's made of stone, I cleaned it up later, and the horrible smell is not present anywhere in the kitchen.

I thought that maybe the steam from the boil might have infused its smell into something, but I can't find anything specific that has the smell. It's just there, but I can't tell where it's coming from.

 

[zippybasher]

oooo that smell,
cant you smell that smell?
That smell of @$$ around you.

Sorry couldn't help it.

 

[worlddivides]

Gotta love Lynyrd Skynyrd.

 

[TurnipGreen]

Does it smell like when you fart in the shower or more like when you step in a dog turd, then try to scrape it off on the grass in your neighbor's front lawn only to find hours latter there is still a bit of turd on your shoes?

That first scenario could be brewing related, the latter is more indicative of stepping in dog poop.

Seriously if brewing sours make the house stink it will be game over for me. I've been hoping to make a Berliner wiess this summer. Wifey won't be happy if it's a smelly process.

 

[Agate]

Seriously if brewing sours make the house stink it will be game over for me. I've been hoping to make a Berliner wiess this summer. Wifey won't be happy if it's a smelly process.

If it stinks... You've done something wrong. Sours shouldn't smell bad at all - if they do, it's a sign of contamination. You can sometimes get some sulfur in them, and I suspect that's what happened with OP's beer. But the few dozen I've done so far, they've been really clean.

 

[worlddivides]

I don't think any sulfur was produced, though. Or if there was, it was minimal. The wort didn't smell like sulfur and it tasted very clean with a slight tartness. Definitely lactic acid and no acetic acid.

I had my wife smell the fermenter that the wort was in, as well as the new fermenter that the wort is fermenting with Sach right now and she agreed that neither smelled anything like the horrible smell we're smelling.

But its presence perfectly coincided with the boil to kill off the lactobacillus and add the hops, yeast nutrient, Whirfloc, and so on, so I'm just... confused...

Does it smell like when you fart in the shower or more like when you step in a dog turd, then try to scrape it off on the grass in your neighbor's front lawn only to find hours latter there is still a bit of turd on your shoes?

You'd have to ask my wife. I don't think it smells like poop at all, but she does.

Well, the smell is completely gone now, thanks to Febreze. No idea where it was coming from, though.

 

[Singletrack]

I think I'm going to go get a think of Febreze since the smell still isn't going away and its existence corresponds almost exactly with the boiling of the soured wort.

Very confused...

I agree. Completely confused. Nothing smells worse than a think of Febreze.

 

[worlddivides]

I agree. Completely confused. Nothing smells worse than a think of Febreze.

A... "think"...? I didn't know "think" was a noun... Plus, if you think Febreze has a specific smell, then you don't know anything about Febreze.

 

[Singletrack]

Well, now I'll have to give that a good think. I thing I'm the one got confused.

 

[Agate]

OP, could it be copious amounts of DMS? This can be produced during souring, and would certainly boil off. Might not notice it at room temperature, but once it volatilizes might explain the off aroma... Just a thought?

 

[worlddivides]

OP, could it be copious amounts of DMS? This can be produced during souring, and would certainly boil off. Might not notice it at room temperature, but once it volatilizes might explain the off aroma... Just a thought?

It could have been DMS. The DMS would have completely boiled off in the 1 hour boil I did after the souring. Do you think the DMS permeated the environment with the smell? The wort was a bit stinky for a few minutes early on in the boil (but not before that and not after the boil got rolling).

When the Febreze smell went away, the horrible smell came back (albeit fainter than before and now only in a few specific locations - all locations very far away from the wort that the wort has never been near). It's driving my wife crazy trying to figure out what it is.

 

[Agate]

I can't see how it could have - it's a bit of a stretch. It's so volatile that I can't imagine it sticking around.

 

[worlddivides]

I can't see how it could have - it's a bit of a stretch. It's so volatile that I can't imagine it sticking around.

Yeah... This is a real mystery.

On a side note, what people have said about a low pH inhibiting yeast is REALLY true. The saccharomyces is fermenting the wort now, but it is working slower than any other beer in my life. I'm using US-05, which has started fermentation as fast as 4 hours after pitching and the longest it took to start before now was about 14-16 hours. I added Servomyces and some yeast nutrient, fully aerated the wort, and pitched within the middle of US-05's range, but it took 48 hours before the yeast started and it's still fermenting at a ridiculously slow pace. I don't have a pH meter (can't really justify the cost at this time), but I didn't expect the pH of the wort to affect the US-05 yeast THAT MUCH. I have to imagine it takes a long time for beers with a low pH to carbonate in the bottle too.

 

[Agate]

US-05 works great for low pH, but yeah, I think it has a hard time multiplying in the low pH wort. I usually double pitch with pre-soured beers and get pretty decent fermentation. Usually done in 10-14 days this way, but the krausen is usually pretty weak compared to a standard ale.

 

[worlddivides]

US-05 works great for low pH, but yeah, I think it has a hard time multiplying in the low pH wort. I usually double pitch with pre-soured beers and get pretty decent fermentation. Usually done in 10-14 days this way, but the krausen is usually pretty weak compared to a standard ale.

I used a heterofermentative strain of Lactobacillus, so the gravity had dropped from 1.033 to 1.022 after a little over 72 hours of fermentation around 100F, which gave the US-05 a pretty low starting gravity to work with. I imagine it'll probably get the wort down to about 1.006 by the time it's done, though. It's just taking its time. Definitely working though. There is CO2 being produced and causing activity in the airlock. Just... WAY WAY less than normal.

 

[Agate]

It'll get there... It's a pretty tough environment to pitch into, so it'll take some time. If it stalls, adding a pitch of brett wouldn't be a bad idea, it could handle the low pH no problem.

 

[worlddivides]

It'll get there... It's a pretty tough environment to pitch into, so it'll take some time. If it stalls, adding a pitch of brett wouldn't be a bad idea, it could handle the low pH no problem.

True, but I'm trying to keep this as close to style as possible, and I've never had a Berliner Weisse with Brett character (although I would imagine they exist). Hopefully it won't stall, but if it does, I'll try to use a method other than Brett to get it restarted.

 

[Singletrack]

I think I'm going to go get a think of Febreze since...

A... "think"...? I didn't know "think" was a noun... Plus, if you think Febreze has a specific smell, then you don't know anything about Febreze.

Well, now I'll have to give that a good think. I thing I'm the one got confused.

When the Febreze smell went away...

Back to the important stuff: I've been thinging about this for a long time now, and I'm just sure I've seen "think of Febreze" discussed somewhere, so that has to be the right way to say it.

Also, I thing Febreze has one of those "perfume" smells that I don't like. Some say it has no smell, but the same some also thing the smell goes away, so...

Now back to your regularly scheduled stenches, pH effects, etc.

 

[worlddivides]

Back to the important stuff: I've been thinging about this for a long time now, and I'm just sure I've seen "think of Febreze" discussed somewhere, so that has to be the right way to say it.

Also, I thing Febreze has one of those "perfume" smells that I don't like. Some say it has no smell, but the same some also thing the smell goes away, so...

Now back to your regularly scheduled stenches, pH effects, etc.

Febreze itself has no smell, but almost all the versions of it now are sold with some kind of smell. When I went to buy one yesterday, they had: linen and sky, vanilla and cream, Greek seaside, rain and meadows, spring and renewal, and like 30 other smells that I can't remember.

It's interesting because originally Febreze wanted to be released as an odorless product that got rid of negative smells, but they found out that most people are used to the smells in their houses and didn't actually WANT to get rid of bad smells, so they then added fragrances to it, and advertised it according to its good smell, and it sold like crazy. After it started selling well, they started emphasizing the odor-erasing properties about it. The innovative thing about Febreze is the hydroxypropyl beta-cyclodextrin that binds to volatilized hydrocarbons, essentially getting rid of odors. As innovative as it was, it didn't sell until they started adding pleasant smells to it.

(My wife recently read a book that talked in detail about it)

 

[IDMaynard]

So did anyone have any actual suggestion on what caused the odoriferous issue? I have a Ordinary Bitter that has a poopish(poop adjacent?) aroma, not taste, and if I let it sit in the glass for a few minutes it is gone. I thought about trying to purge CO2 through the dip tub of the keg and open the overpressure valve at the top a couple of times to see if I could force it out of solution.

 

[user 344105]

I've cut red oaks before that smelled like the steps to the subway. And my wife has described the odor in the house after I've brewed as "brussels sprout fart".

 

[IslandLizard]

And my wife has described the odor in the house after I've brewed as "brussels sprout fart".

That points to DMS, the smell of cooking cabbage.

 

[Skeeter686]

So did anyone have any actual suggestion on what caused the odoriferous issue? I have a Ordinary Bitter that has a poopish(poop adjacent?) aroma, not taste, and if I let it sit in the glass for a few minutes it is gone. I thought about trying to purge CO2 through the dip tub of the keg and open the overpressure valve at the top a couple of times to see if I could force it out of solution.

If you're referring to a sulphur kind of aroma, I had that recently with two beers. They weren't yeasts that I thought would normally do that, so I don't know what I did to anger them.

The one seemed to eventually go away. For the other, I was considering something similar to what you describe.

 

[VikeMan]

I used a heterofermentative strain of Lactobacillus, so the gravity had dropped from 1.033 to 1.022 after a little over 72 hours of fermentation around 100F, which gave the US-05 a pretty low starting gravity to work with.

So...33% apparent attenuation. What strain did you use? I've never seen/heard of a drop anywhere near that big. Lance Shaner (Omega Labs) did experiments comparing the attenuation of various strains, i.e. WLP677, WLP672, Wyeast 5335, Wyeast 5223-PC, OYL-605 in a 1.037 OG wort. The highest apparent attenuation was 12%, with WLP677.

Given your seemingly unprecedented drop and the horrible smell, I kind of suspect there were other bugs along for the ride.