Has anyone recently harvest yeast from Saison Dupont?

[;ㅅ;]

I harvested yeast from Saison Dupont and made a starter, and put it in the wort I made on Sunday.
(Pils, wheat, vienna, oat, EKG+90 minute boil.)

The airlock started moving on Tuesday, And when I opened the fermentation tank and checked it smelled like DMS. Today, I checked fermenter and found that the smell of DMS disappeared a lot, And it smells spicy and smoky, acrid, A little bit sour smell.

After pouring beer from the bottom of the fermentation tank, I drank it. PH is down (5.4->4.5) with some sour, young beer taste, and some citrus scent and a odd smell of fermenter.

I've never brewed Saison before, but I've had some Saison. I've never felt this way in Saison...

What's going on with my beer?

I don't know if this will get better, but I'm going to put Brett in the fermenter as my last hope.

Thank you for reading it.

The first picture is the picture of today's fermentation tank, and the bottom is yesterday.

 

[jsphlynch]

A couple thoughts:
1) You're only a couple days into fermentation, so the character still has a lot of changing to do. Let it finish out before letting the panic set in and making rash decisions.
2) 2-day lag is a bit long, suggesting low viable cell count and/or vitality. How old was the starter? How much did you step it up from the original dregs?
3) Some of the character you describe could possibly indicate a contamination got into your starter as you were harvesting your yeast from the bottle. Did the starter itself have any of this same character?
4) What are you trying to accomplish with the Brett?
5) What was OG and what's the gravity at now?

 

[IslandLizard]

I harvested yeast from Saison Dupont

You mean from a (commercial) bottle of Saison Dupont beer?

and made a starter

How big was that starter?
It takes a few step ups when harvested a bottle culture, to grow enough (healthy) yeast for pitching.

and put it in the wort I made on Sunday.

What size batch is that?

 

[;ㅅ;]

A couple thoughts:
1) You're only a couple days into fermentation, so the character still has a lot of changing to do. Let it finish out before letting the panic set in and making rash decisions.
2) 2-day lag is a bit long, suggesting low viable cell count and/or vitality. How old was the starter? How much did you step it up from the original dregs?
3) Some of the character you describe could possibly indicate a contamination got into your starter as you were harvesting your yeast from the bottle. Did the starter itself have any of this same character?
4) What are you trying to accomplish with the Brett?
5) What was OG and what's the gravity at now?

1) Yes, I think I'm a little impatient, too. I'll give more time to beer.

2) On 3/31, I made a 1 liter yeast starter for 2ml 750 bottles of Saison Dupont dregs, gave that enough time, left only yeast, and added 500ml of water and DME mixture again.

3) I didn't feel that scent in the starter, but I felt malt and some fruity scent.

4) I consulted a nearby brewer and tried to make a mixed fermentation ale with brett after the first fermentation. My first sour beer

5) OG is 1.072, and I measured it now and it didn't go down.

 

[;ㅅ;]

You mean from a (commercial) bottle of Saison Dupont beer?


How big was that starter?
It takes a few step ups when harvested a bottle culture, to grow enough (healthy) yeast for pitching.


What size batch is that?

Yes, Commercial bottle. Batch size is 5.25 Gallon(20L).

I made a 1 liter yeast starter, gave it enough time, left only yeast, then put 500ml of water and DME mixture back in.

 

[;ㅅ;]

I've tasted it again, and it just tastes like young beer and smells a little better.

I'm sure the airlock moved, but it's weird because the gravity is stable.

Should I add more yeast? If it's not impossible to recover, I'm thinking of buying another yeast and putting it in.

 

[doug293cz]

1) 네, 저도 조금 참을성이 없는 것 같아요. 나는 맥주에 더 많은 시간을 줄 것이다.

2) 3/31, 세종 듀퐁 2ml 750병을 사용하여 I made a 1 liter yeast starter, gave it enough time, left only yeast, then put 500ml of water and DME mixture back in.

3) 스타터에서 그 향기를 느끼지 못했지만 맥아와 약간의 과일 향을 느꼈습니다.

4) 근처 양조업자와 상담을 받았고, 첫 번째 발효 후 브렛과 혼합 발효 에일을 만들려고했습니다. 제 first sour beer

5) OG is 1.072, and I measured it now and it didn't go down.

You are likely to get more responses if you post in English, since many, many more members speak/read English than Korean. Non Korean readers can always use Google translate to read your post, but many won't expend the effort.

doug293cz
HBT Moderator

 

[;ㅅ;]

You are likely to get more responses if you post in English, since many, many more members speak/read English than Korean. Non Korean readers can always use Google translate to read your post, but many won't expend the effort.

doug293cz
HBT Moderator

Oh, I'm sorry, it's automatically translated, so it changes from English to Korean. I wrote it properly.

 

[IslandLizard]

I made a 1 liter yeast starter, gave it enough time, left only yeast, then put 500ml of water and DME mixture back in.

Cultivating from bottle dregs is better and more successful when stepping up in smaller volumes, not by adding 1 liter starter wort to a few ml of harvested yeast.
For example, starting with 15-30ml ==> 50-80 ml ==> 200-300ml ==> 1-2 liter

BTW, if you can buy yeast, the Dupont yeast strain is available as WY3724 (or WLP566 oops, WP565, thanks @CascadesBrewer, or OYL-500).

WY3726 is similar but not the same, just a bit easier to work with. She's not as prone to stalling as 3724 tends to do under adverse conditions (such as back pressure, or a temp drop at the wrong time).

BTW, your beer is fermenting, that's where all the foam is coming from. Not sure what's floating on top in the 2nd picture. Yeast perhaps?

5) OG is 1.072, and I measured it now and it didn't go down.

Measured with a hydrometer or refractometer?

Anyway, please stop opening the lid let it be for 2-3 weeks, doing her thing.

4) I consulted a nearby brewer and tried to make a mixed fermentation ale with brett after the first fermentation. My first sour beer

Are you saying you added Brett to your Saison? When? How much?
Brett does not make beer sour, souring bacteria do.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

BTW, if you can buy yeast, the Dupont yeast strain is available as WY3724 (or WLP566 or OYL-500).

Note that is WLP565. Also, OLY-500 is a hybrid yeast, but in a side by side, I found the results to be VERY similar to WLP565. Supposedly, OLY-500 has less issues with the "stall" than the Dupont strain is known for.

I tend to lean on White Labs yeast (well, I like Imperial or Omega more these days for liquid yeast, but I use a lot of dry yeast...except for Saisons) but Drew Beechum likes to say there is a noticeable difference between WY3724 and WLP565. He has recommended using them both together, but that seems like too much effort and $$ for me.

 

[;ㅅ;]

I've tasted it again, and it just tastes like young beer and smells a little better.

I'm sure the airlock moved, but it's weird because the gravity is stable.

Cultivating from bottle dregs is better and more successful when stepping up in smaller volumes, not by adding 1 liter starter wort to a few ml of harvested yeast.
For example, starting with 15-30ml ==> 50-80 ml ==> 200-300ml ==> 1-2 liter

BTW, if you can buy yeast, the Dupont yeast strain is available as WY3724 (or WLP566 or OYL-500).

WY3726 is similar but not the same, just a bit easier to work with. She's not as prone to stalling as 3724 tends to do under adverse conditions (such as back pressure, or a temp drop at the wrong time).

BTW, your beer is fermenting, that's where all the foam is coming from. Not sure what's floating on top in the 2nd picture. Yeast perhaps?


Measured with a hydrometer or refractometer?

Anyway, please stop opening the lid let it be for 2-3 weeks, doing her thing.


Are you saying you added Brett to your Saison? When? How much?
Brett does not make beer sour, souring bacteria do.

Understand, That's how it works. Thank you for letting me know.

Those pictures were posted just in case, just for reference, I think they're just yeast too.

I measure with a triple scale hydrometer and a sugar refractometer.

After the first fermentation, I'm thinking of putting in a pack of yeast (WLP6501 vial).

Thanks for your help.

 

[IslandLizard]

I measure with a triple scale hydrometer

That will give you the most accurate results, it's a direct read, in %Brix or SG, but needs larger samples, thus more beer.

and a sugar refractometer

They only need one drop, which is easy to steal without lifting lids, etc. But, once fermentation starts their readings get skewed due to the presence of alcohol (having a much higher refraction index than sugar). A calculator needs to be used to convert the reading to actual %Brix or SG.
For example, this one, and use Part II:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/

 

[;ㅅ;]

That will give you the most accurate results, it's a direct read, in %Brix or SG, but needs larger samples, thus more beer.


They only need one drop, which is easy to steal without lifting lids, etc. But, once fermentation starts their readings get skewed due to the presence of alcohol (having a much higher refraction index than sugar). A calculator needs to be used to convert the reading to actual %Brix or SG.
For example, this one, and use Part II:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/

There was such a difference, I didn't know. Thank you for letting me know! I will wait long enough for it to ferment, and then measure it according to the method you told me.