Welding 101 = Fun Brutus Build

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Did you already drill out the banjo orifices for low pressure propane? If so, I'm interested in the hole you went with.

I have this chart, but I'm not sure what the optimal BTUs per hour should be for these banjos.

--
Josh
 
Wow, looking very nice. A few questions:

1) How are you mounting your pumps?
2) What are your plans for a control panel?
3) Could you ship two of those wind screens to my address since our builds look like siblings? :D
 
Looks fantastic and exactly what I will be doing.

A few questions.

1)What did you use to cut your steel? I was thinking of a 6" chop saw I saw on Northern tools for $50 as I imagine my angle grinder won't suffice for perfect cuts, especially 45 degree cuts.

2) Where did you get the material for the wind screens?

3) What material is the diamond bottom and were you able to weld it to the frame or use screws or something?

You are my hero and I am so copying your design.
 
jlandin said:
Did you already drill out the banjo orifices for low pressure propane? If so, I'm interested in the hole you went with.

I have this chart, but I'm not sure what the optimal BTUs per hour should be for these banjos.

--
Josh
Click to expand...

No, these are high pressure burners. 20-30 psi. I'm just going to use propane right now with gas valves going to the burners which will adjust the flame.
 
diatonic said:
Wow, looking very nice. A few questions:

1) How are you mounting your pumps?
2) What are your plans for a control panel?
3) Could you ship two of those wind screens to my address since our builds look like siblings? :D
Click to expand...

1, The one pump I have will be mounted in the middle. I will have to drill several holes and mount the pump with a u-bold (not sure if this is the correct name for it. But have seen them in HD) to the underside of the diamond plate around the middle tubing attaching it to the pump.

2, No control panel. Right now. I'm just doing straight propane with the gas valves to each burner. I will plum the middle burner with a gas valve but Will plug that one end of the valve up for future use.
I going to wait awhile and see how this stand works out before I even think about building a control arm on it and start setting it up for all the electronics. Which is going to have to wait awhile due to budgets.

3, Would like to, but Im out of plate steel. Bought enough for the three shields.
 
ghart999 said:
Looks fantastic and exactly what I will be doing.

A few questions.

1)What did you use to cut your steel? I was thinking of a 6" chop saw I saw on Northern tools for $50 as I imagine my angle grinder won't suffice for perfect cuts, especially 45 degree cuts.

2) Where did you get the material for the wind screens?

3) What material is the diamond bottom and were you able to weld it to the frame or use screws or something?

You are my hero and I am so copying your design.
Click to expand...

1, I used a 10" table saw. All I did was change out the wood cutting blade with a 10" metal cutting blade. I wanted to save some cash from having to buy a chop saw. I already had the table saw on hand.
That chop saw in my option will work. It can cut the size tube 1.5 which I used on my build.
I have said it and will say it again. I wouldn't recommend using a angle grinder. Sure, you COULD use it. But once it came time to cut NICE 45 degree angles..I don't think so!

2, The 16ga carbon sheet metal was bought local. But Ive have seen them being sold on eBay. Just type in sheet metal.

3, The diamond plate is think aluminum which I had cut to size. All I had to do was cut out notches out for the corners and center tubing . I countersunk the screws into it. Using #8 1 inch sheet metal screws.

Hero...WOW. Thats is a strong word my friend. But thanks for the compliment!
 
SouthernYankee said:
No, these are high pressure burners. 20-30 psi. I'm just going to use propane right now with gas valves going to the burners which will adjust the flame.
Click to expand...

Ok, so you are going with high pressure regulators. I'm converting my banjos to low pressure propane, that's why I asked. Thanks,

--
Josh
 
SouthernYankee said:
1, I used a 10" table saw. All I did was change out the wood cutting blade with a 10" metal cutting blade. I wanted to save some cash from having to buy a chop saw. I already had the table saw on hand.
That chop saw in my option will work. It can cut the size tube 1.5 which I used on my build.
I have said it and will say it again. I wouldn't recommend using a angle grinder. Sure, you COULD use it. But once it came time to cut NICE 45 degree angles..I don't think so!

2, The 16ga carbon sheet metal was bought local. But Ive have seen them being sold on eBay. Just type in sheet metal.

3, The diamond plate is think aluminum which I had cut to size. All I had to do was cut out notches out for the corners and center tubing . I countersunk the screws into it. Using #8 1 inch sheet metal screws.

Hero...WOW. Thats is a strong word my friend. But thanks for the compliment!
Click to expand...

So was the sheet metal already in a circle or did you curve it around and weld it into a cylinder? Also what was the diameter of the circles?
 
jlandin said:
Ok, so you are going with high pressure regulators. I'm converting my banjos to low pressure propane, that's why I asked. Thanks,

--
Josh
Click to expand...

Right, I'm using a HP regulator for now. Let me guess. You want low pressure on yours so the flame wont blow out on the igniter once turned on?
 
ghart999 said:
So was the sheet metal already in a circle or did you curve it around and weld it into a cylinder? Also what was the diameter of the circles?
Click to expand...

The sheet metal was straight. Then curved into a ring and the ends welded together. The size of them: 12.5" inside diameter by 4" wide.
:mug:
 
OK. So you started with roughly a 40" long piece of 16G sheet metal and curved it into a circle. Was this difficult to curve and hold in place while you welded it? How did you do this exactly?

Maybe I should just buy a table saw too instead of a chop saw. Table saw can be used for everything whereas chop saw is so limited, albeit smaller than a 10" table saw.
 
ghart999 said:
OK. So you started with roughly a 40" long piece of 16G sheet metal and curved it into a circle. Was this difficult to curve and hold in place while you welded it? How did you do this exactly?

Maybe I should just buy a table saw too instead of a chop saw. Table saw can be used for everything whereas chop saw is so limited, albeit smaller than a 10" table saw.
Click to expand...

Yes, roughly a 40" long piece of sheet metal and using the outside of a home depot 5 gal. plastic cooler to roughly make the ring. Start at one end and start to form it over the outer part of the cooler and shape it around it. If you don't have a cooler then try to find something round. Maybe a Corney.

Once, I had the size I wanted. I took a pair of vise grips to hold the ends together. I placed a "tack" weld in the middle..then started to weld from one end to the other end of the ring.

Believe me, if I had a chop saw I would of rather used it. Working with a 60" piece of tubing can be a pain to saw. I had to lay the piece on the saw table then clamp it in several different places on the "saw guide" so it wouldn't move while I was cutting it.
The chop saw you wouldn't have this problem.
 
SouthernYankee said:
Thanks for the link Josh. I might have to look at these later on down the road.
Click to expand...

Yankee and Josh, you guys should do like I do and go visit a scrap yard. You can frequenly find a scrapped furnace, and pull these parts out:
honeywellvalve.jpg

Automatic gas valve and
honeywellmodule.jpg

Ignition/valve control module. Be sure to pull the pilot/ignitor out, too, and the wires connecting them.

Over the years I've picked up several of these for brew systems (my home system, Club rig, a couple of friends rigs), and the most I ever paid for them was $5! A couple of times, when I was buying some stainless or copper item, I got the furnace parts for free. The one on my home rig was just such a freebie, and it's been running for over 8 years, no problem. And if the parts you find in your local yard are for Natural Gas, you can pick up a conversion kit for a few bucks on eBay.

With these installe, all you have connect your temp control to send 24 vac to the module on a call for heat. The module opens the Pilot Valve and generates a spark at the pilot, sensed the pilot flame, and opens the Main Gas valve to your burner. If the pilot blows out (or is drowned by a keggle overflow), the module cuts the Main Gas and repeats the ignition sequence, which takes less than 5 seconds. MUCH more reliable than using a Standing Pilot valve. I fill my HLT the day before a brew day and have the rig on a simple light timer. By the time I'm ready to start, I already have plenty of hot water.
 
Update: 3/13/2010
Nothing really new to report or post.
In the process of putting together the black pipe propane supply.

Still waiting for the stainless gas lines and a few fittings to arrive via mail. Hopefully they will arrive on Monday.


001-5.jpg

003-4.jpg
 
I'm jealous that you'll be ready to brew on yours before I'm ready to brew on mine :).

Did you use pipe dope on the gas line threads or the yellow teflon tape? Also, I have the same red-handled brass valves on my gas beam, so we continue the similarities!
 
diatonic said:
I'm jealous that you'll be ready to brew on yours before I'm ready to brew on mine :).

Did you use pipe dope on the gas line threads or the yellow teflon tape? Also, I have the same red-handled brass valves on my gas beam, so we continue the similarities!
Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to firing it up and give it a test run with some water.

I used pipe dope.
Yeah the red handle gas valves. I like the look of the valve itself and it only has a half turn which I also liked.

You need to post some photos when you start yours. I really am interested in your process.

:)
 
jlandin said:
Ok, so you are going with high pressure regulators. I'm converting my banjos to low pressure propane, that's why I asked.
Click to expand...

Josh, in general terms, converting burners is asking for trouble. Any burner designed for high pressure propane will definitley NOT work at low pressure. For example, Yankee's burners like 20 psi, they would probably run OK on 15. But LOW pressure propane is less than ONE PSI! A typical propane barbeque regulator, for example, is set to about 7" wc.
 
Fletch said:
Josh, in general terms, converting burners is asking for trouble. Any burner designed for high pressure propane will definitley NOT work at low pressure. For example, Yankee's burners like 20 psi, they would probably run OK on 15. But LOW pressure propane is less than ONE PSI! A typical propane barbeque regulator, for example, is set to about 7" wc.
Click to expand...

That's not accurate. Many including myself have done so with a bit of drilling.


edit - and you would need a low pressure reg for propane, or nothing extra for NG (usually)
 
samc said:
That's not accurate. Many including myself have done so with a bit of drilling.


edit - and you would need a low pressure reg for propane, or nothing extra for NG (usually)
Click to expand...

Never seen one that worked PROPERLY. Especially propane burners converted to NG. I've seen guys post pics of "successful" conversions, complete with the totally black bottomed SS keggles sitting on top of them.
 
Fletch said:
Any burner designed for high pressure propane will definitley NOT work at low pressure.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but this is just not true.

Perhaps some burners won't work well with an orifice conversion, but most will work great when done properly. Especially the "kick a** banjo" (BG-14).

--
Josh
 
3/15/2010

Alright, stainless gas fittings arrived today. And the "cheap" adjustable propane regulator.

Will start to assemble the fittings to the stand tonight, after I put the kids to bed!

003-5.jpg

004-5.jpg
 
99% DONE, as for the install goes.

TEST run:
Findings after a 15 min burn test.

1. Buy yourself a GOOD QUALITY propane regulator. The one I bought off ebay is a piece or Chinese garbage. I'm not just saying that. FACT, it has Chinese written on the hose! It broke after these photos were taken. The threads to the adjustment screw are already striped.
So with that being said. I'm going to buy a nice regulator.

2. The wood heat shield. Worked very well. I will need to shield just the two ends of it however. It got a little black....I don't want to cut it shorter, its the size I like.
I'm thinking about putting aluminum caps at the ends..this might help.

3. The 1200 F barbeque paint works like a charm. Awesome stuff..

4. Still need to secure the pipe a little better.

5. Don't know if I like the stainless hose that short. Those are 24" hoses..I might go up a size or two.
OR......even hard pipe connect it.

011-2.jpg


Look at that heat!
025.jpg

024-1.jpg

018-1.jpg
 
Things around the burner will get a wee bit more hot when there is a keggle on there.

Just curious about the reg, Does it have 1/4" pipe connections on it? Only reason I ask is, IIUC the 1/4" connection regs can sometimes limit the feed of propane on a low pressure setup.


IIUC= If I understand correctly.

Its looking great otherwise. Keep it up.:mug:
 
GreenMonti said:
Things around the burner will get a wee bit more hot when there is a keggle on there.

Just curious about the reg, Does it have 1/4" pipe connections on it? Only reason I ask is, IIUC the 1/4" connection regs can sometimes limit the feed of propane on a low pressure setup.


IIUC= If I understand correctly.

Its looking great otherwise. Keep it up.:mug:
Click to expand...
Thanks GreenMonti!

I bet the keggle will "expand" the flame and heat at the bottom of it. As you indicated with the keggle sitting on it.

This is a high pressure setup. It has a 3/8 connection to the 1/2" gas pipe.
The regulator is crap...When it worked, the burners got plenty hot. But the build quality of the regulator is worthless.
The one end of the regulator at the body looks to be 1/4...dont know, I didn't measure it.
 
Freaking awesome. Any idea what kind of pressure you were getting to the Banjos? I was leak testing my gas beam tonight... and the regulator I got only goes to 15psi. It's the first stage regulator out of a 2 stage setup for an RV. It can supposedly deliver up to 1,000,000 BTU/hour... I've just got my fingers crossed that 15psi will be enough for the Banjos to be happy. Should find out Thursday when I get my burners mounted.

Also, I have no idea if it is a problem... not being a propane expert, but can the gas pipe get too hot where you have it running and present a safety issue? I thought people run gas pipes at the bottom to protect them from the heat.

Looking 100% KICK-ASS!
 
diatonic said:
Also, I have no idea if it is a problem... not being a propane expert, but can the gas pipe get too hot where you have it running and present a safety issue? I thought people run gas pipes at the bottom to protect them from the heat.

Looking 100% KICK-ASS!
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing when I installed the pipe. The tube did get very hot. But not the pipe.
But I am going to move the pipe towards the bottom more. I also, didn't like
the gas lines being spread out that much.
I will re-do the pipe and valves to better a position.

I don't have a clue as to what psi I was achieving with the cheap regulator. I'll be looking for a good quality 20 or 30 psi one.
 
5_Thumbs said:
What PSI was the "cheap" regulator that you purchased?

Cheers! :mug:
Click to expand...

It was an adjustable 0-20 psi one. Just made really poor.

Ive read different websites which require the BG14 to have a 30 psi regulator. Then again, Ive also came across other sites which state 20 psi.

The regulator you have listed is almost the same one I use for my turkey fryer. Except it is only a 10 psi one. To bad, could have saved some cash if it were a 20 or 30 psi one.
 
Wow, after reading this forum for the last 10 days non stop (no kidding!) and trying to figure things out for my brew stand, I think I finally have found the right design. I have no doubt that I will building my B10 clone for many weeks if not months to come but your design is perfect. If you don't mind, I will copy it.

As far as build goes, I have a friend that has agreed to weld my stand for some beer....awesome.

Some questions for you as I am trying to source all my materials...

1. Where did you get your casters? Model #?

2. What made you decide on Banjo burners instead of the 10-tips jet burner?

3. How many linear feet of 1.5X1.5 have you used for the whole built? I ask because my local supplier on sells in 24' length.

Again, this looks amazing.....thanks for sharing.

JP
 
copster88 said:
Wow, after reading this forum for the last 10 days non stop (no kidding!) and trying to figure things out for my brew stand, I think I finally have found the right design. I have no doubt that I will building my B10 clone for many weeks if not months to come but your design is perfect. If you don't mind, I will copy it.

As far as build goes, I have a friend that has agreed to weld my stand for some beer....awesome.

Some questions for you as I am trying to source all my materials...

1. Where did you get your casters? Model #?

2. What made you decide on Banjo burners instead of the 10-tips jet burner?

3. How many linear feet of 1.5X1.5 have you used for the whole built? I ask because my local supplier on sells in 24' length.

Again, this looks amazing.....thanks for sharing.

JP
Click to expand...

Awesome, feel free to copy and use it anyway you want.

To answer your questions.

1. Castercity.com : http://www.castercity.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=3PB4X&ReturnTo=../cm3-stem.htm

I used model number ER26 ****TOO LARGE***. If I had to buy them again. I would go with ER29 or maybe ER25
I had to grind down the rubber and metal screw on my bench grinder. The were just to large to fit inside the 1.5 square tube. I know it says the ER29 is for 1.5 inch on there site...but you want the next size or two down.

2. I cant comment on the 10-tip burners. I have never used them. I just liked how the BG14 looked and believe me they are awesome in size. Plus the heat output is great.

3. 50 feet in total. I ordered 10, 60 inch pieces.
 
I used 4 of these on my nearly identical frame and they are awesome. There's a ½"-13 nut welded behind the bottom plate on each corner vertical tube that they screw in to. When you lock them it stops the caster wheel from turning *or* swiveling. For the price, they are awesome.
 
diatonic said:
I used 4 of these on my nearly identical frame and they are awesome. There's a ½"-13 nut welded behind the bottom plate on each corner vertical tube that they screw in to. When you lock them it stops the caster wheel from turning *or* swiveling. For the price, they are awesome.
Click to expand...

Those are awesome casters. Wish I looked there first. I could of saved on my car insurance! :ban:
 

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