Way, way, way over the top Sam Adams Utopia clone - #2

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paulthenurse said:
I'd suggest the 1118 instead of adding more of the 099 on the theory that the 099 has maxed out. It has worked for us and brought us down to our finished gravity. I think you will be ok but the addition won't hurt.
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EC-1118 is rumored to be the solution to world peace, the recession, and even political battles.

OK maybe not, but I plan on using the EC-1118 on mine after WLP001 craps out, it has a very good reputation for fermenting where other yeasts give up or flat out die.
 
Well. the 2 gallon super starter seems to have done something. I decanted the liquid off the top, and racked the utopia onto the yeast cake, added the maple syrup and stirred. Gravity went up to around 1070 with the additional maple, but I'm getting a bubble in the airlock every 15 seconds or so.

I have ec1118 in the fridge for when i really need it.
 
Ok, let me see if I'm following your fermentation timeline. You started at1090 and fermented down to 1030 then added 5 lbs of DME to get you back up to 1052. You pretty much stalled there so you racked onto a new yeastcake of 099 and added maple syrup immediatley. Is that correct?

If that is how it went down I'd think you will be lucky if the 099 can handle that load. They just had two big meals and pretty much felt like you do on Thanksgiving by the time the second football games comes around. Then we had some friends come over and took them all out to an all you can eat Chinese banquet and want them to eat everything out on the tables before they can leave, go home and go to sleep. That's asking a lot out of their little yeastie bellies.


I'd ride them as far as they would take me then be quick to add the 1118. I'd also make a 50/50 starter for the 1118 out of the Utopia before I pitched it.

PTN
 
No, that's not entirely what happened. Looking at my notes (and rounding the readings off here), we started with an AG 5 gallon mash of about 1.090. Pitched the WLP099 and servomyces. After 3 days it was down to about 1.030. I added 5 lbs of DME, it went back up to 1.050 and dropped down to 1.040 a few days later.

Then I added 4 more lbs of DME, servomyces, and a splash of maple syrup. It went back up to 1.080 and dropped down to 1.054 after two weeks and stalled. I made the big started, put 1.5 lbs of maple onto that new yeast cake and racked onto that. It was at 1.070 a few nights ago, and bubbling away.

There was almost a gallon of trub left over when I racked onto the new cake.
 
korgman said:
There was almost a gallon of trub left over when I racked onto the new cake.
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That was a startling realization, when we racked off last year and found a good four GALLONS of lees on the bottom of the fermenter. But think about it. It takes a TON of yeast to eat all that sugar. And a TON of yeast is what you get.

Chris is still making weak excuses for not stirring and adding the maple syrup to our batch. His latest excuse was "I pulled a sample to measure and my wife walked by and knocked the hydrometer on the floor." He did say it bubbled for a few days after he stirred it the last time. And so, of course, it's like pulling teeth to get him to stir it. The lad makes me crazy.

PTN
 
Never mind, I went and found the answer in the original WWWOTTSAUC thread. We racked off the primary fermentation March 12th last year.

Yeager, I ended up working a double here in Pawtucket to cover a sick call and so I got tonight off. Can you pull a bottle and bring it by the shop tonight?

PTN
 
korgman said:
Then I added 4 more lbs of DME, servomyces, and a splash of maple syrup. It went back up to 1.080 and dropped down to 1.054 after two weeks and stalled. I made the big started, put 1.5 lbs of maple onto that new yeast cake and racked onto that. It was at 1.070 a few nights ago, and bubbling away.
Click to expand...

Well the 099 still has life in it yet. Back down to 1.058. Keep going baby!
 
Whew... That was one hella a long read :)

Good stuff, hope it comes out for all the guys attempting this recipe, seems like it would be really cool to make.

I need to do a couple of AG's then I might have the balls to try a super big beer like this.
 
Well, seems stuck again. Down from 1058 to 1056 in a week. I don't think the 099 is going to do much better at this point. Time for the ec1118? Thoughts?

So, if i understand correctly from PTN : One pint of water with one pint of current uptopia for the starter. Aerate like hell. No additional DME? Just utopia diluted 50/50? ProMash computes my current beer to be 17.5% ABV.

I'll probably add sermomyces in the starter too.
 
korgman said:
Well, seems stuck again. Down from 1058 to 1056 in a week. I don't think the 099 is going to do much better at this point. Time for the ec1118? Thoughts?

So, if i understand correctly from PTN : One pint of water with one pint of current uptopia for the starter. Aerate like hell. No additional DME? Just utopia diluted 50/50? ProMash computes my current beer to be 17.5% ABV.

I'll probably add sermomyces in the starter too.
Click to expand...

yup thats where we're stuck too. yeah k that's the right ratio and the servo couldn't hurt either
 
Trying to get Yeager to go down into his cellar and pour a couple of quarts of maple syrup into the batch is just about the single most frustrating exersise in the world. When I talked to him last we were down around 1030. The maple will bump us up around 1032-34. If he doesn't add the maple by Saturday I'm going to kidnap McKenzie.

PTN
 
korgman said:
Well the 099 still has life in it yet. Back down to 1.058. Keep going baby!
Click to expand...

And now 3 weeks later its down to 1050. I started a packet of ec1118 a few days ago and pitched tonight anyhow. Oh, and before that, i scooped out 4 ounces into a measuring cup, covered that with a piece of cheese cloth (yeast filter), and poured out two 2oz samples for me and a buddy. WOW. I cannot believe how great it has turned out after only two months.

The cheese cloth really collected some nice clumps of yeast. Great filter for a pour out of the primary fermenter. Worked great. Smooth and no floating yeast in the snifter.
 
Update, one month later its still at 1050. :( I don't know...I really wanted to push this one down more. Do I just give up and rack to secondary. Do I try to make a super starter (2 gallons) with EC1118, decant the liquid, and rack onto the cake? I figure I'm at 19% now, but damn I really want to break that 20% sound barrier.

Any thoughts?
 
Do another 1118 addition. I think you might be getting an inhibiting effect from all that alcohol you have in there, it's making it inhospitable for the 1118 to get going. I'd build up the 1118 starter two or three steps to try to really get them rocking and rolling before dumping them in the soup. Just go progressively stronger and stronger with the amount of beer. Say you use 1:1 beer/water for the f1rst step, then go 2:1, then 3:1. Keep adding a bit more beer to the activley fermenting starter, don't wait till fermentation dies down and the yeast settles out. Add the additional beer when it's at the peak of fermentation.

Try adding some oak chips to the carboy while you are at it. We got a signifigant drop in our gravity after we did that last year. Don't ask me why, I could offer up some guesses but that would be all they would be.

PTN
 
PTN, how big a starter? Like I said, I was going to make a 2 gallon starter, get a nice cake, decant, and pitch onto that. With that much water, I wouldn't want to add beer to it and throw all that back in and dilute the beer. are you talking about a normal 1/4 gallon 1.040 starter? Add a pint of beer...another pint...and another?
 
I wouldn't let it get to the point where there even is a cake. You want to keep the yeast in a state of rapid fermentation, a full boil, if you will. Here is how I would do it. I'd take a cup of the beer and add a cup of filtered water, mix it up, aerate and add the yeast and see if it takes off. Once it gets going take out another cup of beer and add 1/2 cup of filtered water to that, aerate it and add it to the first bit. Let that continue. When it gets to a full boil mix two cups of beer and 1/2 cup of water into the soup. The idea is to get the yeast used to increasingly higher parameters and stresses. Pitch the whole lot back into the primary when it is back up to maximum fermentation and cross your fingers. Say a novena. Light a candle. Drink a shot of tequila for luck. Talk to it. Sing to it.

PTN
 
I think I have cultivated the STRONGest strain of EC1118 ever. Hopefully this stuff will chow through the rest of this brew. Paul, I tried what you said, and it never took off. So I threw that starter back into the batch, had a little cake left in the jug, and put a standard 4 cup DME muntons starter on that. After 2 days, it really started rolling. So I added 1 cup of the Utopia to that. After another day, I put another cup in. Got some really good reaction, kept adding. I've got 4 cups of Utopia (already at 19%) in there now and its still bubbling. I gotta guess this starter is at 15%, so hopefully it won't get shocked when I add it to the main brew.
 
Great news, looks like there was some life in that first starter attempt that I chucked in before making this latest starter. Down to 1.046. I just pitched in the really active starter that I've been working on from that first failed (I thought) starter, and I took a grav reading right after pitching to verify that I was still around 1050. I guess there was something going on in that sample that got poured back in last week. Now with this additional new stuff (which was just absolutely rocking in the jug), I might be good. Will check for bubbles in the primary fermenter soon.
 
Put down the hydrometer and walk away from the fermenter. There is black magic at work here, and you have no business messing with it. Accept that it is working and come back in two months. Don't mess with the dark powers of fermenting yeasties, just be thankful that they have accepted your offerings and have started back to work.

Now... Begone!!!!!

PTN
 
OK, I just had to check, down to 1.040 just over thirty days later. I'm thinking its time to rack to secondary and add the woodchips. Time for the next addition. I have 4 ounces of woodchips that having been sitting in Cognac for 6 weeks. How much do I add? Do I let them dry out a bit first? Opinions?
 
Hey Korg,

That's great. It's working. If it were up to me I'd add the chips now to the primary. You had such a hard time getting those yeasties to finish up the dance why would you want to take the beer off of it? I'd go ahead and take the chips out of the cognac and add them straight to your container. I would add the entire six ounces and monitor the brew for the level of percieved 'oakyness.' Remember that that oakyness will be strong at first but that it will fade in time. OTOH, no one like to drink plywood. I bet that it will be time to take them out in a month or so and that you will have had an additional drop in your gravity at that time. That is what happened to us. So then you can rack off the chips and the yeast cake at the same time. You will probably have a substantial increase in clarity from the chips. (Hello Adolphus Busch.)

Again, I'm offering my opinion on your beer based on what worked for us. YMMV. Good luck, it seems like you are headed in the right direction.

PTN
 
sorry to be late on the updates here fellas. we racked this over to a rum seasoned barrel @7/27/10, she was down to @1.038+-. it was still sweet but not cloying sickenly like it was at 1.058. thinking about leaving it in the barrel till turkey day then bottling in small bottles.
 
Woo, I started reading the last WWWOTTSAUC thread yesterday and have spent about 3 hours total to get to this place... How has U2 turned out so far? The first edition looked amazing. I haven't gotten to partake of the SA Utopias, but I am a big fan of the Dogfish Head 120 Minute IPA, Worldwide Stout, and the BrewDog Tokio IS (closest alcohol % I have had to the Utopias)

On a side note...

I brewed my very first batch of beer on Saturday.

My recipe was pretty simple since I have no idea what I am doing:

3.3lb Muntons Hopped Dark LME
3 Cups of Sugar

1 SmackPack of Wyeast Scotch Ale

This was all reduced into a 2.5 gal Mr. Beer Fermenter

My intial gravity reading was 1.075

After 3 days, the primary is still in a steady bubble, but I am concerned about the sweetness of this though- The flavor and thickness of the wort was very close to Aunt Jemima's... Should I pitch some beano next week if my 10 day gravity reading is above 1.02X?

I would like to finish in the 9-10% ABV range with a flavor rivaling a Thomas Creek UTC.

Good luck guys and any advice is greatly appreciated--
 
Well there is a lot to be said for not knowing what you are doing, you can't be frightened by thinking that you are biting off way more than you can chew.

I'm not saying that you can't make a Utopia Clone in a Mr Beer for your first batch of beer. Anything is possible. What I am saying is that if you give it a go and it comes out anything close to the original I'll crawl on my hands and knees to South Carolina and set myself on fire outside of your house.



PTN
 
Paul thats terrible. However I agree, if he pulls it off I'll carry you on my back. Don't be discouraged though. You can make decent beer in a Mr. Beer. Its how I got started. My buddy now makes all his Brett and Sour beers in my old Mr Beer fermentors.
 
No, this isnt a Utopia clone I'm attempting (that is for another day with a real kit). I just want a 9-10% Up The Creek clone. I am just overly concerned that my yeast will wig out before it can eat up all the sugars and I will have an intolerably sweet malt beverage. :(

The Utopia clone is coming though, sometime.
 
lastsecondapex said:
No, this isnt a Utopia clone I'm attempting (that is for another day with a real kit). I just want a 9-10% Up The Creek clone. I am just overly concerned that my yeast will wig out before it can eat up all the sugars and I will have an intolerably sweet malt beverage. :(

The Utopia clone is coming though, sometime.
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Best of luck to ya, lad. If you pull off a Utopia Clone from any sort of a kit I'll up the ante and carry Albert on my back as I crawl to SC.

As far as what you made, you need to give us a little bit more information on what you did, the ingredients you used and the techniques you followed to get your brew into the Mr Beer. I'll be more than happy to help you out but could you start another thread and ask those questions there?

PTN
 

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