Way too bitter...

[tackett]

So I recently made a gluten free licorice IPA using anise and six (that's right) six ounces of hops. They were 3 oz glacier and 3 oz Yakima magnum.

Working this thing out on brewers friend (with the schedule I was supposed to use.) it worked out at 100IBU exactly. I apparently screwed my schedule up somehow, because its so bitter I can't even drink it.

I was thinking about boiling up some sorgum syrup and water the way you normally would without hopping it at all. Then do this process.

Agitate the existing beer to suspend some yeast, then transfer it into two buckets, Each with 2.5g.

Then top each bucket off with 2.5g of just the unhopped sorgum brew.

This would leave me with 10 gallons of beer that would hopefully be much less bitter and drinkable.

Of course that would mean to wait longer and let the yeasties take care of the new fermentables.

Will this even work?

 

[Dave37]

What was your hop schedule like? 3 oz of magnum seems a little much since the lowest I've ever seen the Aau for that hop is 14%. Even though they can range from 12-17 (I think) if you used a lot of your hops during the beginning of your boil or maybe even too long in your boil that can explain the overpowering bitterness. While your idea of using the sorghum may help you cut down on your bitterness problem the new sugar content may make your brew too overpowering on the ABV department. Instead of bitterness you will taste fusel alcohol and have a ton of "hot" boozy taste going on instead. Give us your recipe and maybe we can help you out. I've never brewed gluten free.

P.S perhaps the ingredients used to make gluten free beer interact differently with the hops than "normal" malts and grains this could also possibly explain why 6 oz of hops in a 5 gallon batch provided an extreme bitterness.

 

[Nightshade]

Six oz is a lot for a 5gal batch.

 

[afr0byte]

Six oz is a lot for a 5gal batch.

It really depends on where the hops go in the schedule, honestly. I did 12 ounces (4 of which were dry hop) recently in a Double IPA. Admittedly it was a 6 gallon batch (5 gallons in to the keg).

 

[Nightshade]

It really depends on where the hops go in the schedule, honestly. I did 12 ounces (4 of which were dry hop) recently in a Double IPA. Admittedly it was a 6 gallon batch (5 gallons in to the keg).

True and not knowing his hop schedule or the FG/OG makes it a bit tricky to figure out what went wrong.

 

[dcp27]

providing the recipe will help, but what was your OG/FG? while I've found GF beers need more bitterness, 100 IBUs may just be out of balance. also how much anise? that can cause a bitter like finish as well

While your idea of using the sorghum may help you cut down on your bitterness problem the new sugar content may make your brew too overpowering on the ABV department. Instead of bitterness you will taste fusel alcohol and have a ton of "hot" boozy taste going on instead. .

P.S perhaps the ingredients used to make gluten free beer interact differently with the hops than "normal" malts and grains this could also possibly explain why 6 oz of hops in a 5 gallon batch provided an extreme bitterness.

GF malt doesnt interact any differently with hops. the extract does have more of a twang than normal extract tho, which can be reduced similarly to barley extract & adding it late.

also since the OP is turning this into 10G with the dilution, it sounds as though there wouldn't be any ABV increase, just cutting the IBUs in half. just upping the ABV wouldnt cause fusels anyway

Six oz is a lot for a 5gal batch.

IMO 6oz is kinda low for an IPA

 

[Dave37]

providing the recipe will help, but what was your OG/FG? while I've found GF beers need more bitterness, 100 IBUs may just be out of balance. also how much anise? that can cause a bitter like finish as well

GF malt doesnt interact any differently with hops. the extract does have more of a twang than normal extract tho, which can be reduced similarly to barley extract & adding it late.

also since the OP is turning this into 10G with the dilution, it sounds as though there wouldn't be any ABV increase, just cutting the IBUs in half. just upping the ABV wouldnt cause fusels anyway

IMO 6oz is kinda low for an IPA

Really? I would think adding two and a half gallons of fermentable sugars to a liquid which already has a said ABV due to the other 2.5 gallons already being fermented. The yeast would probably consume some more sugar thus upping the ABV no? And then if the ABV doesn't go up would the beer be extremely cloying with so much in fermented sugar within? Even at 100 IBUS 5 gallons of a 50 IBU beer with that much in fermented sugar would be very sweet.

You are right about the fusel alcohol but even with a clean double fermentation without any recipe to go on I would think there would be a ton of hot alcohol finish on this beer.

 

[dcp27]

you're misunderstanding. say you had 2.5gals of fermented wort that started at 1.06 and fermented to 1.015. if you add another 2.5gals of 1.06 wort to that, you're not increasing the abv nor are you adding any sweetness (given it ferments similarly as expected)

 

[Dave37]

you're misunderstanding. say you had 2.5gals of fermented wort that started at 1.06 and fermented to 1.015. if you add another 2.5gals of 1.06 wort to that, you're not increasing the abv nor are you adding any sweetness (given it ferments similarly as expected)

Ahhh gotcha i see what youre gettin at.

 

[tackett]

Wow thanks for the fast responses!

I've been trying to copy my recepie but brewers friend is being weird.

The details are:
Magnum 2oz for 60 min
Cascade 1oz for 60 min
Magnum 1oz for 30 min
Cascade 1oz for 30 min
Magnum 1oz for 2 min
Cascade 1oz for 2 min
(7 oz I was mistaken)

Brewers friend works this out to 101ibu and I got a 1.062 OG and scored a 1.014 FG. (~6.5%)

The star anise I used .25oz which was about 2 stars. Boiled them for 10 min

I used some Nottingham ale yeast I had on hand.



That was what the schedule was supposed to have been. And I could have sworn that's what I did, but I'm not sure where I screwed up.

Maybe I need to sample closer to the top....

 

[Dave37]

Almost 50% of your hop bill going in at 60 minutes could explain why you have a huge bitter bomb!

What did u mean when u said sample from the top?

 

[dcp27]

unless that was only like a 2gal boil, brewers friend *miscalculated. adding 5oz of bittering hops (30min add is basically a bittering add) esp mostly with a high AA one definitely explains why you got a way too bitter beer. bitterness will fade with time, but being an IPA you obviously don't want to wait for that so your plan is the best option. i'd be sure to add some late hops to the 'unhopped' half tho (at least 4oz). with only 2oz late hops, as is its basically a very bitter pale ale and bumping the grain to 10gals is approaching a blonde

using the same amount of hops, a better schedule for this would've been

1-2oz magnum @60
1oz cascade @10-20
1oz magnum @10-20
1oz cascade @0-5
1oz magnum @0-5
1oz cascade @dry hop
1oz magnum @dry hop



*no IBU calculation is accurate, esp as it approaches 100 IBUs, but its off from normal calculations

 

[tackett]

Dang. Well that explains it.

So what you are saying is that the IBU calculations are not right when they get that high?

So I guess the only way to really know is just through experience?


Also, why the late hop additions in the "unhopped" boil?

 

[dcp27]

no IBU calculation is very accurate and even moreso the higher it gets. just pick one way and stick with it as reference across your beers. it may not be 100 IBUs, but comparatively it is.

the late hop additions for the unhopped boil are because you don't have enough late hops for this to be an IPA, especially if you double the volume. i'd just boil the extract long enuf til its settled (so like 5mins) then throw in a few oz of hops and let it steep for abit. you could just load up on dry hops instead, but its not the same

 

[tackett]

K thanks! I'm doing this tonight.

 

[Cathedral]

Six oz is a lot for a 5gal batch.

Maybe in communist Russia. I do 6oz 5g's all the time, most recently my vienna/amarillo SMaSH, or my 600 Year IPA (6 oz centennial.) For a hophead, it's an even keel.

However, if OP or anyone isn't an all-time IPA drinker, I can definitely see how it can appear too bitter. But, IMHO, I've never encountered an IPA that is too bitter. Most are, "Good, but could've used more hops!"