No aroma from 6 oz dry hop. What gives?!

[CyberFox]

I can't seem to get any aroma from dry hopping and it's driving me nuts! Even with a 6 oz dry hop, I get barely any aroma. I think I do a pretty good job of mitigating oxygen (ferment in a keg, purge 16x with 30 psi immediately after dry hop, dry hop under pressure, cold crash under pressure, fully closed transfer to fully purged serving keg, purge lines with CO2, etc.), so I'm not sure what the problem is. I'll break down the schedule of my last beer:

5 gallon batch - 30 minute boil
0.5 oz of Warrior at 30 minutes
6 oz of Cascade at flameout
Ferment at 62 degrees with 34/70 yeast
Day 7: Increase temp to 68 degrees.
Day 14: Dry hop under pressure with 6 oz of Cascade at 68 degrees for 4 days
Day 18: Cold crash under pressure for 3 days
Day 21: Fully closed transfer into fully purged (with fermentation CO2) serving keg, then carbonate
Day 28: Drink

I didn't soft crash to 60 or below because it was a lager yeast (resilient to cold) and I wasn't even sure if dropping the yeast before dry hopping was real important since some breweries don't do it (Firestone). I did a 3 week primary thinking that the yeast could finish and drop naturally before dry hopping (not sure if they ever did). I've heard that 34/70 could be powdery, but I've never heard of anyone soft crashing it or having any trouble with dry hop aroma while using it. For my next beer, I was thinking of cold crashing for a couple days before dry hopping to drop the yeast (might even use US-05), then dry hop for 2 days at cold crash temp. Not sure if that would help or not.

Here's a few questions:
1. How big of a difference does dry hopping without the presence of yeast make?
2. Can you figure out what may be wrong with my process that leads to no aroma?
3. What is your overall advice on getting the best dry hop aroma?


Thanks in advance!

Edit: I forgot to mention that I use distilled water and build it up to 50 ppm each for calcium, chloride, and sulfate. I also target 5.4 mash pH at room temperature. I'm seriously confused about what I'm doing wrong. I want big in-your-face aroma, but it's not happening.

 

[rburrelli]

Has anyone else tasted your beer and said it has no aroma?

 

[CyberFox]

Has anyone else tasted your beer and said it has no aroma?

Yes, three other people have tried it and agree with me: the flavor's there, but not the aroma.

 

[scogan]

Do you have to open your fermentation vessel for the day14 dry hop ?
I guess you have had this issue with several different batches of hops ?
Might be worth moving from flameout to whirlpool possibly .??

 

[Panderson1]

I had an issue like that that I believe was caused by me gassing off too much CO2 as the keg was carbing up. Are you using the set and forget method? I also thought it might be my CO2 source (local spanish food mart). I read some bad sources could have some O2 mixed in?

When you say "fully purged" keg, does that mean a star san/liquid purge?

Is it the same source of hops every time? Do you smell the bag of hops?

 

[Bayou Fatma Brewer]

I can't seem to get any aroma from dry hopping and it's driving me nuts! Even with a 6 oz dry hop, I get barely any aroma. I think I do a pretty good job of mitigating oxygen (ferment in a keg, purge 16x with 30 psi immediately after dry hop, dry hop under pressure, cold crash under pressure, fully closed transfer to fully purged serving keg, purge lines with CO2, etc.), so I'm not sure what the problem is. I'll break down the schedule of my last beer:

5 gallon batch - 30 minute boil
0.5 oz of Warrior at 30 minutes
6 oz of Cascade at flameout
Ferment at 62 degrees with 34/70 yeast
Day 7: Increase temp to 68 degrees.
Day 14: Dry hop under pressure with 6 oz of Cascade at 68 degrees for 4 days
Day 18: Cold crash under pressure for 3 days
Day 21: Fully closed transfer into fully purged (with fermentation CO2) serving keg, then carbonate
Day 28: Drink

I didn't soft crash to 60 or below because it was a lager yeast (resilient to cold) and I wasn't even sure if dropping the yeast before dry hopping was real important since some breweries don't do it (Firestone). I did a 3 week primary thinking that the yeast could finish and drop naturally before dry hopping (not sure if they ever did). I've heard that 34/70 could be powdery, but I've never heard of anyone soft crashing it or having any trouble with dry hop aroma while using it. For my next beer, I was thinking of cold crashing for a couple days before dry hopping to drop the yeast (might even use US-05), then dry hop for 2 days at cold crash temp. Not sure if that would help or not.

Here's a few questions:
1. How big of a difference does dry hopping without the presence of yeast make?
2. Can you figure out what may be wrong with my process that leads to no aroma?
3. What is your overall advice on getting the best dry hop aroma?


Thanks in advance!

Edit: I forgot to mention that I use distilled water and build it up to 50 ppm each for calcium, chloride, and sulfate. I also target 5.4 mash pH at room temperature. I'm seriously confused about what I'm doing wrong. I want big in-your-face aroma, but it's not happening.

Did you try a different Hops like Tettnanger? Whats the AA?
Do you hop in a sock or Hop Ball ?
You should get some Aroma with 6 Oz’s

 

[CyberFox]

Do you have to open your fermentation vessel for the day14 dry hop ?
I guess you have had this issue with several different batches of hops ?
Might be worth moving from flameout to whirlpool possibly .??

I open the lid for roughly 10 seconds to drop the hops in, seal it, and purge 16x with 30 psi. That should result in 0 ppm of oxygen. I've had this issue with all dry hopped beer. I don't think hopping at flameout is the problem because I get all the flavor I want from it. I made a flameout only beer before this and it had the same potency of flavor as this one and no aroma, which I expected. If I get any aroma at all from this beer, it's VERY mild. Maybe a tiny bit more than no dry hop, but it's barely there at all.

I had an issue like that that I believe was caused by me gassing off too much CO2 as the keg was carbing up. Are you using the set and forget method? I also thought it might be my CO2 source (local spanish food mart). I read some bad sources could have some O2 mixed in?

When you say "fully purged" keg, does that mean a star san/liquid purge?

Is it the same source of hops every time? Do you smell the bag of hops?

Yes, I use the set-and-forget method to carbonate. I'm not sure about O2 being mixed in with my CO2. The source I use for CO2 SHOULD be good quality, but who knows? I use CO2 from fermentation to purge my serving keg. Yes, it's hops from Yakima Valley Hops and they are good quality.

Did you try a different Hops like Tettnanger? Whats the AA?
Do you hop in a sock or Hop Ball ?
You should get some Aroma with 6 Oz’s

I haven't tried other hops, but I know that Cascade should give good aroma. I can't remember the AA. I throw the hops in free.
----
I'm wondering if maybe the hops just floated in a pile and never fully submerged in the beer. There's not much surface area in a keg and I didn't agitate it any, so maybe that's something? Doubt it, but I'm not sure either way.

How big of an effect would yeast flocculation have on the hop aroma?

 

[Bayou Fatma Brewer]

I open the lid for roughly 10 seconds to drop the hops in, seal it, and purge 16x with 30 psi. That should result in 0 ppm of oxygen. I've had this issue with all dry hopped beer. I don't think hopping at flameout is the problem because I get all the flavor I want from it. I made a flameout only beer before this and it had the same potency of flavor as this one and no aroma, which I expected. If I get any aroma at all from this beer, it's VERY mild. Maybe a tiny bit more than no dry hop, but it's barely there at all.

Yes, I use the set-and-forget method to carbonate. I'm not sure about O2 being mixed in with my CO2. The source I use for CO2 SHOULD be good quality, but who knows? I use CO2 from fermentation to purge my serving keg. Yes, it's hops from Yakima Valley Hops and they are good quality.

I haven't tried other hops, but I know that Cascade should give good aroma. I can't remember the AA. I throw the hops in free.
----
I'm wondering if maybe the hops just floated in a pile and never fully submerged in the beer. There's not much surface area in a keg and I didn't agitate it any, so maybe that's something? Doubt it, but I'm not sure either way.

How big of an effect would yeast flocculation have on the hop aroma?

I believe the hops should be submerged. i used about 15 sanitized marbles in a hop sack to get them to sink. My Hop Ball also sinks them. Maybe give that a shot. IMO my hop ball compresses the hops to tightly if I use the maximum amount of hops it can hold but both worked well. They make Keg lids where hops can be attached to it. You may already have some
Cheers

 

[Bassman2003]

I think aroma is most often linked with cold side process related to oxygen exposure. So to clarify, your current process is to connect the fermenter to the serving keg and let the CO2 gas purge the serving keg correct? After the beer is transferred you quickly open the keg lid, drop the hops in and CO2 purge many times to try to get as much O2 out from the small headspace.

All of this sounds like a pretty O2 free approach. How do you transfer the beer? Is it a closed transfer without any O2 exposure?

Since you are force carbing, I would suggest looking into spunding which will naturally carbonate the beer either in your fermenter or in the serving keg. This will for sure help as CO2 tank gas does have some component of oxygen which degrades aroma. Not usually super quickly as in not having any aroma, but it does have an impact.

Everybody hates the oxygen conversation but it plays a huge part and it difficult to get around.

 

[CyberFox]

I think aroma is most often linked with cold side process related to oxygen exposure. So to clarify, your current process is to connect the fermenter to the serving keg and let the CO2 gas purge the serving keg correct? After the beer is transferred you quickly open the keg lid, drop the hops in and CO2 purge many times to try to get as much O2 out from the small headspace.

All of this sounds like a pretty O2 free approach. How do you transfer the beer? Is it a closed transfer without any O2 exposure?

Since you are force carbing, I would suggest looking into spunding which will naturally carbonate the beer either in your fermenter or in the serving keg. This will for sure help as CO2 tank gas does have some component of oxygen which degrades aroma. Not usually super quickly as in not having any aroma, but it does have an impact.

Everybody hates the oxygen conversation but it plays a huge part and it difficult to get around.

Yes, I purge the serving keg with fermentation CO2 by connecting the fermentation keg (kegmenter) to the serving keg, then the serving keg to a jug of sanitizer.

I dry hop in the kegmenter. I disconnect the serving keg from the kegmenter, open the kegmenter's lid and throw in the hops, then purge 16x.

I do a fully closed transfer from the kegmenter to the serving keg using gravity and there's zero oxygen exposure or hop aromatics escaping while doing this.

Maybe spunding might work. I can't really find anything wrong with my process and that's why this is so annoying. No hop aromatics escape after the dry hop, so that's not the problem. I keep coming back to yeast flocculation being the culprit, but I'm not sure how much of an effect that actually has.

...and yeah, mitigating oxygen is a pain in the ass.

 

[Spivey24]

Have you tasted the beer at 21 days right after transfer to see if there is aroma there?

 

[CyberFox]

Have you tasted the beer at 21 days right after transfer to see if there is aroma there?

Yeah, I pulled a sample at 21 days to measure FG and the aroma wasn't there either.

 

[Bassman2003]

Thanks for the info. Are you dry hopping during fermentation for a hazy or more of a west coast after fermentation?

 

[CyberFox]

Thanks for the info. Are you dry hopping during fermentation for a hazy or more of a west coast after fermentation?

No, I didn't dry hop during fermentation. I dry hop well after fermentation since my goal is to dry hop without yeast in suspension. Since I used 34/70 yeast, I didn't bother soft crashing to drop the yeast since it's resilient to cold. I figured that the yeast would drop out naturally at 68 degrees if given enough time (14 days). Despite all this, this beer may as well be a hazy because it's very opaque, which surprises me.

 

[Bassman2003]

Ok. I have a Kegmenter as well. If you are into hoppy beers, I would suggest two things: get a spunding valve and try some pressure ferments. Pressure fermenting really brings out the hops and is convenient with carbonation as well. The Kegmenter is a tank in this regard.

I use a magnet approach. It only has room for around 2 oz but allows me to close the fermenter up and never open it until cleaning.

How is your transfer process? Do you purge the liquid and gas lines before doing the transfer? I run the liquid line from the fermenter into kegland QD "T" that is on top of a 2 liter bottle. I drain the first little bits into the bottle and unhook the QD in the middle of the process. So the line is full of beer when I hook it up to the keg.

Kegland has all of the parts for a solid cold side. I use their spunding valve and QDs that are designed for EVA Barrier tubing.

So basically it is pressure fermentation resulting in a finished carbonated beer in the fermenter, drop the hops, let sit for 5 days, pressurized gravity transfer into the fermenter-gas purged & pressurized keg. All closed and no need to tank CO2 outside of serving.

I will be making a video of my setup and a brew in a few weeks. It is very simple once it is all set up and running.

 

[Panderson1]

"I open the lid for roughly 10 seconds to drop the hops in, seal it, and purge 16x with 30 psi. That should result in 0 ppm of oxygen."

IMO you're never going to get rid of all the O2 no matter how much you purge. Also the hop pellets are still going to have O2 attached to them after purging.

 

[day_trippr]

What temperature are these beers being served?
And do they ever open up as they warm?

Cheers!

 

[Spivey24]

Yeah, I pulled a sample at 21 days to measure FG and the aroma wasn't there either.

I have had plenty of IPAs that were bangin straight out of the fermenter but quickly eroded once transferred. But if you are getting nothing straight out of the fermenter, then maybe it’s your hops. Have you tried other varieties like Citra? Also I get the pellets in 2oz packages from Yakima so I just open and use them immediately.

 

[Spivey24]

Ok. I have a Kegmenter as well. If you are into hoppy beers, I would suggest two things: get a spunding valve and try some pressure ferments. Pressure fermenting really brings out the hops and is convenient with carbonation as well. The Kegmenter is a tank in this regard.

I use a magnet approach. It only has room for around 2 oz but allows me to close the fermenter up and never open it until cleaning.

How is your transfer process? Do you purge the liquid and gas lines before doing the transfer? I run the liquid line from the fermenter into kegland QD "T" that is on top of a 2 liter bottle. I drain the first little bits into the bottle and unhook the QD in the middle of the process. So the line is full of beer when I hook it up to the keg.

Kegland has all of the parts for a solid cold side. I use their spunding valve and QDs that are designed for EVA Barrier tubing.

So basically it is pressure fermentation resulting in a finished carbonated beer in the fermenter, drop the hops, let sit for 5 days, pressurized gravity transfer into the fermenter-gas purged & pressurized keg. All closed and no need to tank CO2 outside of serving.

I will be making a video of my setup and a brew in a few weeks. It is very simple once it is all set up and running.

But do you get killer aromas? You never quite mention how they turn out.

 

[Bayou Fatma Brewer]

I can't seem to get any aroma from dry hopping and it's driving me nuts! Even with a 6 oz dry hop, I get barely any aroma. I think I do a pretty good job of mitigating oxygen (ferment in a keg, purge 16x with 30 psi immediately after dry hop, dry hop under pressure, cold crash under pressure, fully closed transfer to fully purged serving keg, purge lines with CO2, etc.), so I'm not sure what the problem is. I'll break down the schedule of my last beer:

5 gallon batch - 30 minute boil
0.5 oz of Warrior at 30 minutes
6 oz of Cascade at flameout
Ferment at 62 degrees with 34/70 yeast
Day 7: Increase temp to 68 degrees.
Day 14: Dry hop under pressure with 6 oz of Cascade at 68 degrees for 4 days
Day 18: Cold crash under pressure for 3 days
Day 21: Fully closed transfer into fully purged (with fermentation CO2) serving keg, then carbonate
Day 28: Drink

I didn't soft crash to 60 or below because it was a lager yeast (resilient to cold) and I wasn't even sure if dropping the yeast before dry hopping was real important since some breweries don't do it (Firestone). I did a 3 week primary thinking that the yeast could finish and drop naturally before dry hopping (not sure if they ever did). I've heard that 34/70 could be powdery, but I've never heard of anyone soft crashing it or having any trouble with dry hop aroma while using it. For my next beer, I was thinking of cold crashing for a couple days before dry hopping to drop the yeast (might even use US-05), then dry hop for 2 days at cold crash temp. Not sure if that would help or not.

Here's a few questions:
1. How big of a difference does dry hopping without the presence of yeast make?
2. Can you figure out what may be wrong with my process that leads to no aroma?
3. What is your overall advice on getting the best dry hop aroma?


Thanks in advance!

Edit: I forgot to mention that I use distilled water and build it up to 50 ppm each for calcium, chloride, and sulfate. I also target 5.4 mash pH at room temperature. I'm seriously confused about what I'm doing wrong. I want big in-your-face aroma, but it's not happening.

Here’s some info from Beersmith About Aroma’s. Seems to be a challenge for some

https://beersmith.com/blog/2021/07/01/the-challenge-of-hop-aroma-oils-in-beer-brewing/

 

[CyberFox]

Ok. I have a Kegmenter as well. If you are into hoppy beers, I would suggest two things: get a spunding valve and try some pressure ferments. Pressure fermenting really brings out the hops and is convenient with carbonation as well. The Kegmenter is a tank in this regard.

I use a magnet approach. It only has room for around 2 oz but allows me to close the fermenter up and never open it until cleaning.

How is your transfer process? Do you purge the liquid and gas lines before doing the transfer? I run the liquid line from the fermenter into kegland QD "T" that is on top of a 2 liter bottle. I drain the first little bits into the bottle and unhook the QD in the middle of the process. So the line is full of beer when I hook it up to the keg.

Kegland has all of the parts for a solid cold side. I use their spunding valve and QDs that are designed for EVA Barrier tubing.

So basically it is pressure fermentation resulting in a finished carbonated beer in the fermenter, drop the hops, let sit for 5 days, pressurized gravity transfer into the fermenter-gas purged & pressurized keg. All closed and no need to tank CO2 outside of serving.

I will be making a video of my setup and a brew in a few weeks. It is very simple once it is all set up and running.

Yes, I purge the transfer lines with CO2 before the transfer. The transfer lines are also EVA barrier with the QDs. A video would be pretty cool.

What temperature are these beers being served?
And do they ever open up as they warm?

Cheers!

I have the beer at 38 degrees out of the keg and no matter how much I let it warm up, there's no extra aroma.

I have had plenty of IPAs that were bangin straight out of the fermenter but quickly eroded once transferred. But if you are getting nothing straight out of the fermenter, then maybe it’s your hops. Have you tried other varieties like Citra? Also I get the pellets in 2oz packages from Yakima so I just open and use them immediately.

I'm using Cascade lately because I figure that if I can get good results with a somewhat lower intensity hop, I should get awesome results with something like Citra. I also get the 2 oz packages from Yakima and use them straight away.

 

[Bassman2003]

But do you get killer aromas? You never quite mention how they turn out.

Best I have had in 20 years of brewing. I have also been studying low oxygen brewing the past four years which has improved things a lot as well.

 

[ejf063]

Try doing the cold crash to soft crash method -just to see. Drop the temp down to 33* for 3-4 days, then get the temp back to about 45-55 degrees and then add the hops.
Then, burp the beer 2 times a day. Do this by blowing co2 through the liquid out-post. So the co2 gas goes all the way through the beer. This will rouse up everything in the fermenter. Degas as you blow the co2 through the liquid out-post. Maybe 10 seconds or so.
This burp method works really well for me. I dry hop only 2 to 3 days tops and I have had great success since doing this.
Finally, (and this was advice from a friend who is in a brew club), set it and forget it. He found that hoppy beers are best served after about 20 days of resting in the serving keg. Lager it. it will be fully carbonated after about 14 days on the gas. You'll let it sit one more week and give it a try. I did this once, and it was one of the best beers I did. The hard part is waiting that 20 days. It was worth it for me.

 

[CyberFox]

I just heard a podcast with Monkish, Trillium, and Weldwerks (dry hopping is discussed at 1 hour 9 seconds). It's pretty interesting that they all dry hop warm for 3+ days. Monkish even said that they mimicked Vinnie Cilurzo's (Russian River) West Coast IPA dry hop process. Monkish also said they they don't rouse the hops and they lager for as long as possible. Definitely not what I would have expected. It just goes to show that you can achieve good results with different techniques (cold/warm dry hop, short/long duration, etc.). Above all else, the main rule for making quality beer is to mitigate oxygen.

I have a couple other bits of information I've found recently as far as yeast goes. I was thinking of cold crashing to drop 34/70 out of suspension before the dry hop. It turns out that Bel Aire Brewing discovered that 34/70 will still ferment in the mid 30s, so that idea won't work. I was also thinking of using BRY-97 as an alternative to US-05. It turns out that BRY-97 is considered a "late hop stripper" unlike US-05. Looks like I'll be sticking with Chico yeast from here on.

Not sure where my last beer went wrong, but I'll use Chico yeast next time and make sure to drop as much yeast out of suspension as possible before the dry hop.

 

[Bassman2003]

Can't go wrong with a Chico variant. My only concern with burping through the liquid in post is that you do not know what is trapped in that line. Probably air which in normal practice would be shot out of the fermenter except now you are bubbling it back through the beer after the yeast is done. Plus air is always injected every time you hook up a disconnect. Small but all of these things add up in a world of parts per billion.

 

[mac_1103]

My only concern with burping through the liquid in post is that you do not know what is trapped in that line. Probably air which in normal practice would be shot out of the fermenter except now you are bubbling it back through the beer after the yeast is done.

So take a hydrometer/taste sample first. Now the line's been purged with beer.

 

[Bassman2003]

Yep. Good workaround.

 

[bigplunkett]

Before any hop forward brew I check the hops. Smash a couple of pellets up in between your hand if it's dull now it will be dull later.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

14 days is a long time. I shoot for 3-7days max. If I was doing 6 oz I would
-don't all for 3 days
-split it 3 oz on day 1, then another 3 on day 7
-2 oz every other day
Then crash it. If you have the equipment, try splitting some batches and doing the same amount of hops on different schedules. It amazing how much it can change the beer.

 

[OzzyPeeps]

I can't seem to get any aroma from dry hopping and it's driving me nuts! Even with a 6 oz dry hop, I get barely any aroma. I think I do a pretty good job of mitigating oxygen (ferment in a keg, purge 16x with 30 psi immediately after dry hop, dry hop under pressure, cold crash under pressure, fully closed transfer to fully purged serving keg, purge lines with CO2, etc.), so I'm not sure what the problem is. I'll break down the schedule of my last beer:

5 gallon batch - 30 minute boil
0.5 oz of Warrior at 30 minutes
6 oz of Cascade at flameout
Ferment at 62 degrees with 34/70 yeast
Day 7: Increase temp to 68 degrees.
Day 14: Dry hop under pressure with 6 oz of Cascade at 68 degrees for 4 days
Day 18: Cold crash under pressure for 3 days
Day 21: Fully closed transfer into fully purged (with fermentation CO2) serving keg, then carbonate
Day 28: Drink

I didn't soft crash to 60 or below because it was a lager yeast (resilient to cold) and I wasn't even sure if dropping the yeast before dry hopping was real important since some breweries don't do it (Firestone). I did a 3 week primary thinking that the yeast could finish and drop naturally before dry hopping (not sure if they ever did). I've heard that 34/70 could be powdery, but I've never heard of anyone soft crashing it or having any trouble with dry hop aroma while using it. For my next beer, I was thinking of cold crashing for a couple days before dry hopping to drop the yeast (might even use US-05), then dry hop for 2 days at cold crash temp. Not sure if that would help or not.

Here's a few questions:
1. How big of a difference does dry hopping without the presence of yeast make?
2. Can you figure out what may be wrong with my process that leads to no aroma?
3. What is your overall advice on getting the best dry hop aroma?


Thanks in advance!

Edit: I forgot to mention that I use distilled water and build it up to 50 ppm each for calcium, chloride, and sulfate. I also target 5.4 mash pH at room temperature. I'm seriously confused about what I'm doing wrong. I want big in-your-face aroma, but it's not happening.

Been meaning to contribute to and bookmark this thread.

In my limited experience, hop flavour is easy enough, hop aroma is end of the rainbow stuff.

It takes a ton of hops and doesn't last long.

Aroma is evanescent.


The other problem is it's never enough for a hophead.

Give the same beer to a bud light drinker they say WOW ... what an aroma

But as soon as we are used to it it's gone.

Can't sense it any more after the first night or 2 it's undetectable

But down to the physics

Contact time, surface area and temperature vs hop charge

Your best bet is recirculating through a Randal or hop back to maximise contact and surface area vs your weight of hops.

5 days constant recirc at your fermenting temp IMO for best results

Then disconnect clean, refill with hops and run cold ish 5-10c to get the illusive "high notes' with something like mosaic + bru 1

Keep us posted

 

[CyberFox]

Been meaning to contribute to and bookmark this thread.

In my limited experience, hop flavour is easy enough, hop aroma is end of the rainbow stuff.

It takes a ton of hops and doesn't last long.

Aroma is evanescent.


The other problem is it's never enough for a hophead.

Give the same beer to a bud light drinker they say WOW ... what an aroma

But as soon as we are used to it it's gone.

Can't sense it any more after the first night or 2 it's undetectable

But down to the physics

Contact time, surface area and temperature vs hop charge

Your best bet is recirculating through a Randal or hop back to maximise contact and surface area vs your weight of hops.

5 days constant recirc at your fermenting temp IMO for best results

Then disconnect clean, refill with hops and run cold ish 5-10c to get the illusive "high notes' with something like mosaic + bru 1

Keep us posted

That reminds me of the "lupulin threshold shift": when a really hoppy beer now seems pedestrian. Beers are so hoppy now that it's getting harder to get your hop fix. The goal posts keep moving!

I don't get to brew too frequently, so it makes poor results that much more disappointing. I'm fermenting a pumpkin spice beer right now and I'm going to try cold crashing for a few days to drop any residual yeast, then "dry spice" at 38 degrees for two days. I'm also going to add some ascorbic acid to help prevent oxidation. I haven't dry hopped/spiced cold or used ascorbic acid before, so it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

 

[OzzyPeeps]

It's the same with any kind of 'tolerance' ...

Same with bitterness.

The more beer U drink the less bitter they seem.

Your taste buds get 'inured' to it.

Changing it up is good.

Mixing up different beers to keep your tastebuds guessing.

But I feel the same way about hops as I do about garlic and ginger in my curries ... no such thing as too much

"Stinging" with hops? Hahahah I laugh at you!

The only thing that will ever stop me is a fatal lupulin overdose!

Have you tried any of the co2 extracts from hopsteiner or Barth Haas?

Hop crack right there

 

[CyberFox]

It's the same with any kind of 'tolerance' ...

Same with bitterness.

The more beer U drink the less bitter they seem.

Your taste buds get 'inured' to it.

Changing it up is good.

Mixing up different beers to keep your tastebuds guessing.

But I feel the same way about hops as I do about garlic and ginger in my curries ... no such thing as too much

"Stinging" with hops? Hahahah I laugh at you!

The only thing that will ever stop me is a fatal lupulin overdose!

Have you tried any of the co2 extracts from hopsteiner or Barth Haas?

Hop crack right there

I agree about tastebuds getting accustomed to flavors. There was one time where I drank nothing but NEIPAs for nearly a month and I switched over to stouts and pilsners for a few weeks. When I tried the NEIPAs again, they seemed way more hoppy than before and I figured it was due to the changeup. It's always good to have variety.

I feel the same way about hops: no such thing as too much. Hop burn would be the only possible downside, but there are ways to avoid that. I'll never have a beer that's too hoppy.

I haven't tried CO2 extracts, but I might in the future. I want to be able to make awesome beer with pellet hops before getting fancy. I figure that if I can make good beer with the basics, then I could really blow it out of the water with the fancier stuff.

When it comes to hop aroma, I'm still on the fence about dry hopping under pressure vs using a blow-off. Some say that aroma can be blown off and I'm not sure if it's true. It seems like most people who dry hop under pressure, due to the concern of losing aroma, usually spund to limit the pressure in the vessel. It seems to me that aroma would still escape anyway once the pressure gets high enough.

 

[BrewZer]

I don't keg or dry hop, so I'm asking this from a process perspective: is it possible you're purging a lot of your hop aroma with those 16X CO2 purges after you drop the hops in?

 

[CyberFox]

I don't keg or dry hop, so I'm asking this from a process perspective: is it possible you're purging a lot of your hop aroma with those 16X CO2 purges after you drop the hops in?

That's a good point, but I still have no clue if aroma loss from purging is a myth or not. It's similar to how it's thought that using a blow-off during dry hopping, instead of dry hopping under pressure, could lead to aroma loss. I wish I had a definitive answer.

16 purges at 30 psi is my usual practice. For my last beer, I decreased it to 10 purges at 6 psi and I still didn't have big aroma. That was with a 6 oz dry hop, which I think should be enough. I also dry hopped under pressure. I've also tried continuously purging while adding the dry hops and it didn't seem to make a difference.

I'm going to try dry hopping my next beer with ground up hops at 38 degrees with a blow-off attached to see what happens.

 

[HM-2]

Are you rousing at all, or just dumping and leaving?

I've had intermittent issues getting decent dry hop extraction over the years, but my currently process (which works pretty reliably) is fairly similar to yours.

Can you dump the yeast as well? I've noticed significantly improved hop flavour and aroma from dumping trub before dry hopping.

 

[Bassman2003]

Cyber, I am not trying to promote anything as I make these just to share, but my transfer video is complete if you have not seen it...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...d-pressure-transfer-video-is-complete.729035/

 

[Redhouse Brewing]

That's a good point, but I still have no clue if aroma loss from purging is a myth or not. It's similar to how it's thought that using a blow-off during dry hopping, instead of dry hopping under pressure, could lead to aroma loss. I wish I had a definitive answer.

16 purges at 30 psi is my usual practice. For my last beer, I decreased it to 10 purges at 6 psi and I still didn't have big aroma. That was with a 6 oz dry hop, which I think should be enough. I also dry hopped under pressure. I've also tried continuously purging while adding the dry hops and it didn't seem to make a difference.

I'm going to try dry hopping my next beer with ground up hops at 38 degrees with a blow-off attached to see what happens.

I used to have same issue until I tried a recommendation by Denny Conn. If I’m making an IPA (not hazy) then I soft crash after fermentation to 45°F for 24 hours. Add the hops and purge 3 cycles. I leave the hops for 48-72 hours. Then crash down to 34°F for 24 hrs and then do closed transfer into a keg that has been filled with properly mixed star san and purged out with co2.

If I’m making a hazy (NEIPA) then I dry hop on day 7. There was study done by a chemist at Wyeast that found dry hopping on day 7 gave the best stable haze/turbidity. I’ll have to say this findings are definitely accurate. My hazies have been stellar since I started using that advice. I do set the spunding valve to 12 psi when dry hopping hazies.

Give those recommendations a try and see if it helps. I know it helped me and now all my beers come out excellent tasting with plenty of aroma that lasts throughout the keg.

 

[CyberFox]

Are you rousing at all, or just dumping and leaving?

I've had intermittent issues getting decent dry hop extraction over the years, but my currently process (which works pretty reliably) is fairly similar to yours.

Can you dump the yeast as well? I've noticed significantly improved hop flavour and aroma from dumping trub before dry hopping.

I'm not rousing, but I'm going to grind the hops into a powder, so there should be no problem getting good extraction even in cold temperatures. I also can't dump the yeast because I ferment in a keg. I'm going to cold crash before dry hopping for my next batch, so no yeast should be in suspension. We'll see how that goes.

Cyber, I am not trying to promote anything as I make these just to share, but my transfer video is complete if you have not seen it...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...d-pressure-transfer-video-is-complete.729035/

That's an awesome video! That's the kind of video anyone could use who's trying to figure out the setup. I do everything the same except using a spunding valve.

I used to have same issue until I tried a recommendation by Denny Conn. If I’m making an IPA (not hazy) then I soft crash after fermentation to 45°F for 24 hours. Add the hops and purge 3 cycles. I leave the hops for 48-72 hours. Then crash down to 34°F for 24 hrs and then do closed transfer into a keg that has been filled with properly mixed star san and purged out with co2.

I'm trying a similar technique with my next beer. I've also heard about dry hopping on day 7 for the best haze. I'm not really aiming for clear or hazy. All I really care about is it being unfiltered.