Voss kviek yeast thoughts

[Beenym88]

I brewed with lallemend kviek Voss yeast it was a total beast grain to glass in 6 days. I made an IPA with citra and Amarillo which both should taste like citrus but it has a distinctly orange kinda fake flavor. Did anyone else experience this I don’t think the flavor is the hops I’m not sure I’d use this yeast again.

 

[RevA]

I've used it a few times. With noble and English hops it made a delightful cirtus and tropical flavor. With South African hops it had a slightly unpleasant astringeny and weird orange flavor. So it might be the hops.

 

[McKnuckle]

I've used it twice; the first time was an amber ale with some sort of typical American C-hops. It tasted disgusting and was dumped. I left hop matter in the fermenter, which I don't normally do, and blame that for the harsh flavor.

The second time is in a keg now - I brewed a simple English style pale/bitter recipe, with torrified wheat and Carastan augmenting the pale ale malt, and Goldings hops. This time it's clean, but has a vague orange/citrus taste that overwhelms the ingredients. It's not exactly bad, but it doesn't really taste like beer either. I'm drawing the conclusion that this yeast is its own thing, not really suitable for use with styles where you want any sort of classic expression.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Hmmm. I'm getting ready to brew a ~1.060 pale ale with Voss, a mix of UK base malts, and Mittlefrüh. Probably just splitting ~30IBUs between first wort and 60m. No late additions. Hoping it turns out ok.

Wondering what your fermentation temps were like?

 

[Beenym88]

Hmmm. I'm getting ready to brew a ~1.060 pale ale with Voss, a mix of UK base malts, and Mittlefrüh. Probably just splitting ~30IBUs between first wort and 60m. No late additions. Hoping it turns out ok.

Wondering what your fermentation temps were like?

I fermented around 85

 

[Beenym88]

I've used it twice; the first time was an amber ale with some sort of typical American C-hops. It tasted disgusting and was dumped. I left hop matter in the fermenter, which I don't normally do, and blame that for the harsh flavor.

The second time is in a keg now - I brewed a simple English style pale/bitter recipe, with torrified wheat and Carastan augmenting the pale ale malt, and Goldings hops. This time it's clean, but has a vague orange/citrus taste that overwhelms the ingredients. It's not exactly bad, but it doesn't really taste like beer either. I'm drawing the conclusion that this yeast is its own thing, not really suitable for use with styles where you want any sort of classic expression.

Yea so it’s definitely the yeast. I’m not going to be using it again not a fan of the orange it produces.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

With the orange flavors, it might work out in a Witbeir

 

[Sunfire96]

I've used Lalbrew Voss a handful of times now, always with a very apparent orangey flavor and smell. The best one was a blonde ale with Triumph hops, the others were pales and IPAs with citrusy hops and were meh. My latest brew was a Citra pale with Voss and it's solidly okay lol. Maybe I should repeat that blonde ale

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I brewed with lallemend kviek Voss yeast it was a total beast grain to glass in 6 days. I made an IPA with citra and Amarillo which both should taste like citrus but it has a distinctly orange kinda fake flavor. Did anyone else experience this I don’t think the flavor is the hops I’m not sure I’d use this yeast again.

I have made a handful of Voss beers. Yes, fermented warm it produces orange characters. I have really enjoyed the flavor and feel that it fits in well with the beers I have made (mostly in the Pale Ale and IPA style). I just brewed a Voss Pale Ale yesterday with Citra and Cascade with the goal of producing a citrus-heavy flavor. It is pumping away now at 90F.

I did make one batch that was fermented at room temp (74F-ish) in a keg under pressure. That one came out much closer to a US-05 style ale (though I think I rushed fermentation and end up with some sulfur character). I recently split a 3 gallon batch; two with saison yeasts and 1 with Voss. This one was fermented in a 80F-ish closet. It has some orange character that I find enjoyable.

So if you don't care for the orange character of Voss, you could try to ferment cooler (around 70F), or just use a different Kveik strain. I read Hornindal has more tropical or pineapple flavors. Other Kveik strains are known to be more clean/neutral. Or there are plenty of non-Kveik strains to pick from.

 

[Spundit]

I have made a blonde ale with cascade and centenial hops fermented with Voss. The fermentation tasted pretty clean. I didn't get much orange (more grapefruit as you would expect). I thought I might be getting an orange rind flavor in the finish but it was subtle and pleasant. I pitched the yeast at 90 and just let it ride without temp control.

 

[superiorsat]

Not a fan of Lallemand yeast in general. I've used Omega 061 Voss dozens of times for all different styles of beers just to see what it can do. Ferment around 90/95 it is pretty clean assuming you don't drastically under pitch. The few beers that had a hint of orange/citrus flavor come through were pleasant and refreshing not artificial or fake flavor. Been drinking a wet hop Comet pale ale for the last week that is delicious. I usually use a single pack in about 12 gallons of wort or a half pack in 6 gallon fermenter.

 

[spittiz]

I kegged a hazy IPA yesterday brewed with Lallemand Voss, fermented at 35c (95f). Hops Citra & Simcoe.

It was done within 24h of fermentation, I let it sit at 35c for an additional day, then I removed the heating and let it come to room temp over a day, then soft crash to 15c (59f) and dry hop for 24h.

Then cold crash 2 days until everything dropped. So it was 6 days in the fermenter in total. I haven't tasted it from the keg yet, might do that tomorrow, but the sample definitely had orange in the aroma and taste, and I thought it tasted pretty good. I can report back when I've had a proper taste of the more finished product.

 

[McKnuckle]

I fermented at exactly 95ºF.

The second time is in a keg now - I brewed a simple English style pale/bitter recipe, with torrified wheat and Carastan augmenting the pale ale malt, and Goldings hops...

I'm coming back to edit my thoughts on this young beer. It's now been in the keg exactly 14 days, and I poured another glass today. Much clearer, and now the orange flavor is subdued, with a creamy mouthfeel and a pleasantly crisp/bitter aftertaste. It doesn't show much hop character, but then again with Goldings that can happen. It's now a pleasant, if not astonishing, pale ale. The head is thick as well.

So maybe suspended Kveik yeast tastes bad, muddles things, or what have you. I think it has promise if we know what to expect from the conditioning phase.

 

[DBhomebrew]

This has been a great little thread so far. Thank you.

There's so many conflicting opinions of Voss, is hard to make heads or tails. What it seems like to me is that brewers get sold on the marketed fast, fast, fast and then disappointed by what is really a very green beer.

I'm going to go ahead with my very simple pale ale probably on Wednesday. Will ferment at a steady 95°. I'm in no rush to bottle, so it'll probably see 2-3 weeks in the primary. From what I'm getting from you all, that's the key. Time to condition. Probably a week at 95, then pull the plug on the heat until I'm ready to bottle.

 

[Spikybits]

the Yeast Bay Voss + WL American farmhouse is my custom blend for white IPA - spicy, slight citrus, smooth bitterness and fantastic. - i do let it sit for about 3-4 weeks before giving it a go to let the farmhouse dry it out. Pulled a bronze with this last year. I do not temp control, so it sits in the mid 70s in my garage with a spunding valve at 5-8PSI

i have had really good success with 2 unhopped sours - the same wheat/pils recipe but with only voss at 95 degrees for 4 days. Its orange/citrus and very fresh/bright tasting but took 1.5m in the keg to drop clear and develop - high carbonation with a nice lingering head for a sour.

Ive also used voss for a mead and winter porter. had good results with the porter, but really prefer english yeast for dark beers.

If you want a clean and fast Kviek - go Lutra. Rye IPA - 95 degrees, grain to drinkable in 8 days, but really good after 2 additional weeks to let the hops come together. Also did an amber with Lutra - super clean and crystal clear after 4 weeks + 1 week conditioning in the kegerator

 

[Velnerj]

What it seems like to me is that brewers get sold on the marketed fast, fast, fast and then disappointed by what is really a very green beer.

Guilty as charged! First (and so far only) time I used lalemand Voss I was astonished. It was done in about 2 days at 35C. I dry hopped 1 additional day and then kegged....

That was a mistake. Even though I let it condition in the keg for more than a week before I cracked the keg it had an absolutely unbearable yeast bite. It gave the beer a bitter rubber shoe flavor. I suffered through as much as I could for about three months and it never improved. I finally dumped the rest. There was a thick layer of yeast that settled on the bottom.

So next time I'm definitely going to give this yeast some more time.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I brewed a neipa with omega voss, mainly because I was serving it a get together and needed it ready to drink in 2 weeks. Fermented at 95f for about 2.5 days crashed to 42f then dropped the yeast out of my conical, dryhopped cool on day 6 kegged on day 9. Force carbed and tasted on day 12, it was maybe a little green but pretty darn good. Served on day 14 and actually still have some left, I brewed 15 gallons and about 7 gallon was drank during the weekend of the party with good feedback. It is not a yeast I will use on a regular basis but for this style and what I needed it met my expectations with no negative affect. Possibly having the ability to soft crash and drop the yeast out before dryhopping helps with my results, but in any place I have no complaints.

 

[Sunfire96]

So maybe suspended Kveik yeast tastes bad, muddles things, or what have you. I think it has promise if we know what to expect from the conditioning phase.

Yes, this ^ Everyone wants grain to glass in 6 days, and I think my issues have been the taste of the Voss yeast itself. Then again, I reread my tasting notes from the blonde ale I really enjoyed and it says "got a little funky at the end." So *shrug* I dunno lol

Trying another Voss batch this weekend with light LME, wheat DME, Centennial and Cascade. I'll wait longer to dry hop to give it longer in primary before bottling and see how that goes.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1182086/castennial-15-no-steep-wheat-dme

 

[RickyBeers]

Voss kveik worked really well in my Belgian wheat, made sense with the orange hint. It definitely makes a clean beer very quick, but I’ve had beers that do not taste right using it.

 

[lumbergh]

I used mangrove jack M12 which is supposedly the same thing. It had a weird twang to it when I got some yeast from the bottom of the bottle. I will try it on a kegged beer next time

 

[Protos]

What it seems like to me is that brewers get sold on the marketed fast, fast, fast and then disappointed by what is really a very green beer.

Actually, kveik ales were traditionally meant to be drunk at their greenest. There was no aging or lagering in Nordic brewing tradition. Kveik ales were most often brewed right before the events to be drunk at: take the Gravøl (grave ale), which was brewed upon notification of a person's death and should be ready for the funeral feast.

After consistently getting not-so-exciting results with fresh Voss ales, I tried the long way: I kept the beer in primary vessel for a month and then bottle-aged it for a year (a 8%ABV traditional Norwegian recipe from the L. Garshol's book). After a year, malt, hop and alcohol flavours mellowed nicely, but the yeast twang I disliked in my green Vosses didn't change much and was still there.

My conclusion is there's something in the yeast flavour that I just don't like, whether green or aged. And the often cited "orange" is a very approximate term to describe the twang. The Voss "orange" definitely cannot substitute the actual orange peel for brewing Wits.

I also noticed my Voss kveik ales were more palatable when I used a heavy juniper infusion for my brewing water, as per traditional Nordic recipes.

 

[tbaldwin000]

Voss produces sulphur at low temperatures, and as the temperature gets higher the sulphur is driven off and more of the yeast's natural character shows through. If you don't give the yeast lots of nutrition I have found it to produce a more earthy, slightly spicy orange peel note. However, if you give Voss lots of nutrition, and keep it hot, then the esters are far more along the lines of orange blossom, and are rather pretty.

As a rule of thumb, think of kveiks as very nutrient hungry (Nitrogen hungry).

 

[Miraculix]

Actually, kveik ales were traditionally meant to be drunk at their greenest. There was no aging or lagering in Nordic brewing tradition. Kveik ales were most often brewed right before the events to be drunk at: take the Gravøl (grave ale), which was brewed upon notification of a person's death and should be ready for the funeral feast.

After consistently getting not-so-exciting results with fresh Voss ales, I tried the long way: I kept the beer in primary vessel for a month and then bottle-aged it for a year (a 8%ABV traditional Norwegian recipe from the L. Garshol's book). After a year, malt, hop and alcohol flavours mellowed nicely, but the yeast twang I disliked in my green Vosses didn't change much and was still there.

My conclusion is there's something in the yeast flavour that I just don't like, whether green or aged. And the often cited "orange" is a very approximate term to describe the twang. The Voss "orange" definitely cannot substitute the actual orange peel for brewing Wits.

I also noticed my Voss kveik ales were more palatable when I used a heavy juniper infusion for my brewing water, as per traditional Nordic recipes.

I agree.

One thing I noted though, when using Voss in an ale with a single bittering hop addition at 60 minutes is that it tasted much better than in the usual hop flavour bombs. I think a big part of the problem is that the particular flavour that Voss imparts does not play well with hop aroma, it might even actually change the hop aroma into something unpleasant.

Using only a neutral bittering addition did it for me. The result will be still unique and interesting, but it goes a bit against today's brewing habits of throwing in loads of late hops and dry hops. Skip them all, only bittering! 6% abv, pale basemalt only, 35 ibus and you're in the ballpark of a good Voss ale.

 

[Protos]

^ Exactly.
My thinking is that kveik yeasts have been selected for centuries to fit juniper rather than hops as the bittering agent. That might explain many things I observe in kveik brewing threads and in my own experience.
Among traditional recipes, I've seen no late-hop-bombs, most are very modestly hopped, and some are completely hop-less. Although some solidly bitter versions exist, they are bittered with a single early addition.

Would be interesting to brew an unhopped kveik ale sometime, like Hornindal Kornøl f. ex.

 

[Miraculix]

^ Exactly.
My thinking is that kveik yeasts have been selected for centuries to fit juniper rather than hops as the bittering agent. That might explain many things I observe in kveik brewing threads and in my own experience.
Among traditional recipes, I've seen no late-hop-bombs, most are very modestly hopped, and some are completely hop-less. Although some solidly bitter versions exist, they are bittered by a single early addition.

Would be interesting to brew an unhopped kveik ale sometime, like Hornindal Kornøl f. ex.

These non-hopped beers will get sour after a short amount of time. I think bittering addition only combines the best of both worlds.

 

[Protos]

I meant, non-hopped and juniper-bittered (so, protected in a way from infection).
Don't think it will get sour if brewed well. I made once a juniper sahti with no hops. Didn't like it (bread yeast, phooey) but no infection issues in 4 months after bottling.

 

[RickyBeers]

FYI from data sheet.

 

[Miraculix]

I meant, non-hopped and juniper-bittered (so, protected in a way from infection).
Don't think it will get sour if brewed well. I made once a juniper sahti with no hops. Didn't like it (bread yeast, phooey) but no infection issues in 4 months after bottling.

I never tried that. I think the original kveik is bittered with the branches and not the berries, isn't it? Hard to come by these branches here.... Especially if you have all these potentially poisonous garden juniper varieties all around you like here on Germany.

 

[Protos]

I bitter my kveiks and sahtis with dried juniper needles I buy in health stores. Adding berries was not authentic, Garshol specifically stressed in some publication.
IDK whether you can buy dried juniper needles in Germany, but Germany is blessed with that the authentic Juniperis communis is the wild juniper there, unlike in USA or here in Southern Europe, where a lot of different poisonous species grow along.

 

[Miraculix]

I bitter my kveiks and sahtis with dried juniper needles I buy in health stores. Adding berries was not authentic, Garshol specifically stressed in some publication.
IDK whether you can buy dried juniper needles in Germany, but Germany is blessed with that the authentic Juniperis communis is the wild juniper there, unlike in USA or here in Southern Europe, where a lot of different poisonous species grow along.

Nice, good to know. I might go juniper hunting then. Do you know if there is a specific time of the yeast when this was done?

 

[Protos]

I don't think the time of the year matters for harvesting juniper. If we look at the pictures from Norwegian farmhouse brewing reports, they brew both in summer and in winter, always using fresh juniper branches.

 

[youngdh]

This has been a great little thread so far. Thank you.

There's so many conflicting opinions of Voss, is hard to make heads or tails. What it seems like to me is that brewers get sold on the marketed fast, fast, fast and then disappointed by what is really a very green beer.

I'm going to go ahead with my very simple pale ale probably on Wednesday. Will ferment at a steady 95°. I'm in no rush to bottle, so it'll probably see 2-3 weeks in the primary. From what I'm getting from you all, that's the key. Time to condition. Probably a week at 95, then pull the plug on the heat until I'm ready to bottle.

You can pull the plug on the heat as soon as it hits FG. For my 3G batches I’m stopping the heat about 36 hours after pitching the yeast.

 

[Miraculix]

You can pull the plug on the heat as soon as it hits FG. For my 3G batches I’m stopping the heat about 36 hours after pitching the yeast.

I think it's desirable to lower the temperature asap after fermentation finished, as staling processes and other negative developments are accelerated the higher the temperature is.

 

[Beer666]

Always found it very clean even at high temps. Typically brew IPA'S and RIS.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

What it seems like to me is that brewers get sold on the marketed fast, fast, fast and then disappointed by what is really a very green beer.

This does not match my experience. I kicked the keg of the first IPA brewed with Voss 4 weeks after brew day! It was in the keg and force carbonated at 7 days, tasted great at 14 days, and I just could not stop taking "samples". My other beers have all been wonderful at around 2 weeks after brew day (~1 week to ferment, ~1 week to keg condition).

I don't believe the hype that Kveik is the solution for all styles of beer, though I have only used Voss myself.

Voss produces sulphur at low temperatures, and as the temperature gets higher the sulphur is driven off and more of the yeast's natural character shows through.

I saw this in my one batch that was fermented at room temperature...it was also a low-ish gravity Pale Ale. The sulphur faded away after a few purges and some time. You really had to dig to find any Kveik or Voss character in the flavor. Voss at room temp with time to clean up might produce a decently neutral ale, but I would probably just use a different Kveik or a standard ale yeast.

If you don't give the yeast lots of nutrition I have found it to produce a more earthy, slightly spicy orange peel note. However, if you give Voss lots of nutrition, and keep it hot, then the esters are far more along the lines of orange blossom, and are rather pretty.

That could very well be the case. I have always followed general advice from David Heath's YouTube channel about adding yeast nutrient. This sounds especially important to beers below 1.070 OG. I have always underpitched (have read conflicting info on how much this matters) and fermented at 85F.

I brewed an iteration of my Voss Pale Ale on Saturday. I pitched 1 pack of Lallemand Voss into a 5 gallon batch (in the 1.050 OG range). I saw activity in a few hours, strong krausen by evening, and it was going crazy all day Sunday. I pitched at 85F, set my chamber heater to 85F, it climbed to 90F during fermentation. I will dry hop in another day or two. My goal is to have this beer on tap at a group event next Thursday (~12 days after brew day).

 

[Miraculix]

I bitter my kveiks and sahtis with dried juniper needles I buy in health stores. Adding berries was not authentic, Garshol specifically stressed in some publication.
IDK whether you can buy dried juniper needles in Germany, but Germany is blessed with that the authentic Juniperis communis is the wild juniper there, unlike in USA or here in Southern Europe, where a lot of different poisonous species grow along.

Found the needles in a German online shop

 

[Protos]

Found the needles in a German online shop

Great! Now the most difficult part: defining how much you need. I found zero suggestions on that matter in even the most detailed books and blogs. They recommend "a medium-size branch" at best. Not knowing much of juniper branch grading in Scandinavian countryside, I needed to experiment. Dried juniper is less potent than fresh, so a dose visually roughly assessed as the dry equivalent to a "medium-sized branch" didn't add much flavour to my ales. So I experimented further, and now I use 15 g dried needles to 1 L of liquor, boiling them for 15 minutes. Initially it gives a fantastic piney aroma and a kind of gruit-like herbal bitterness. However, both aroma and flavour aren't lasting and greatly mellow during fermentation. 15 g/1L will add a nice touch complimenting kveik yeast esters, but won't be enough to bitter a hop-less beer.

Typically brew IPA'S and RIS.

My impression is that the heavier the wort the better results Voss kveik produces. My only decent kveik ales were very strong and heavily-junipered. Which, in fact, well corresponds with the intended use of the strain.
And all my Voss beers lower than 1.080 have been just meh.

 

[Miraculix]

Great! Now the most difficult part: defining how much you need. I found zero suggestions on that matter in even the most detailed books and blogs. They recommend "a medium-size branch" at best. Not knowing much of juniper branch grading in Scandinavian countryside, I needed to experiment. Dried juniper is less potent than fresh, so a dose visually roughly assessed as the dry equivalent to a "medium-sized branch" didn't add much flavour to my ales. So I experimented further, and now I use 15 g dried needles to 1 L of liquor, boiling them for 15 minutes. Initially it gives a fantastic piney aroma and a kind of gruit-like herbal bitterness. However, both aroma and flavour aren't lasting and greatly mellow during fermentation. 15 g/1L will add a nice touch complimenting kveik yeast esters, but won't be enough to bitter a hop-less beer.


My impression is that the heavier the wort the better results Voss kveik produces. My only decent kveik ales were very strong and heavily-junipered. Which, in fact, well corresponds with the intended use of the strain.
And all my Voss beers lower than 1.080 have been just meh.

Nice, what was the best amount of needles per litre for your stronger beers without hops?

 

[Protos]

I haven't brewed kveik ales without hops yet, but for my hop-less Sahti I used 20 g dried needles per Litre. The resulting bitterness was generally comparable to a weak Weizenbier, so I think around 10-15 IBUs.
With hops, the dreaded "vegetable twang" would surely come into play at such dosage, but with juniper I didn't notice it. Anyway, next time I better prepare the liquor at 15g/1L and add a load of dried needles at the lautering, as the desirable piney note was still not pronounced enough.

I think, the dosage would be entirely different if juniper was fresh. But fresh Juniperis communis grows here only high in the mountains, and I'm not such an eager fan of juniper-infused beers to climb the cool summits in search for the magic weed

I didn't like my Sahti at all. Not because of juniper bittering but because of using baking yeast (which is a strict requirement for the style).

 

[FillWholeWell]

I recently brewed a simple pilsner-based beer (not really a lager) using Kveik as an experiment. It fermented in three days in my garage at 95F in the daytime and 75F at night. I was amazed, it was very clear when bottled and the taste was totally clean (no off-flavors or smells), even my wife really enjoyed it.
The one watch-out for me, was that as it had fermented so quickly, there was not enough active yeast left to carbonate the bottles and my beer was quite flat. Not sure what to do about that next time, maybe add a small amount of a dry yeast pack to my bottling bucket....but how much ?