Vials of yeast in the freezer

[redrocker652002]

OK, having read the thread about frugal brewing got me thinking about the yeast vials I have in the freezer that I got from a user here who was getting out of the hobby for a bit. I have probably 10 vials of S05 and was thinking of trying one out just to see if I can do it. So, my question to the masses is, how do I do it? LOL. I have DME and can go Morebeer that is about 45 mins away if needed to get some stuff for a starter. I want to give it a go with one of the vials, and once it is good to go, put it in a mason jar and save it for an upcoming batch of yet to be determined Ale or IPA. What say the masses? Sorry, I know this is a general question, but I am fired up after reading the frugal brewer thread.

In the interest of full disclosure and not wanting to get anybody riled up, I will be asking this same question on the AHA board as well. If this offends or is in any way a problem, feel free to not waste time answering here. With that said, we move on.

 

[mac_1103]

Do you have any idea how many cells are in each frozen vial?

 

[IslandLizard]

Are they slants, the content being a tilted agar medium with a thin layer of yeast culture on top?
Or just a frozen yeast slurry?

 

[redrocker652002]

Are they slants, the content being a tilted agar medium with a thin layer of yeast culture on top?
Or just a frozen yeast slurry?

Let me see if I can post a photo. Looks like they have some sort of frozen liquid on the top and the yeast is sitting on the bottom of the test tube.

Here are a couple of photo's

 

[IslandLizard]

That's not a slant!
It looks like a frozen slurry with glycerol added.

That bottom part could contain most of the yeast, settled out. But there is probably quite some yeast in the higher/granular region too.
Is the bottom part indeed pink?

I would use the whole tube here in a 100 ml 1.010 mini-starter, to start with, so to speak. No stir plate, hand swirled, as often as you can, you want to swirl out any CO2 that forms.

 

[VikeMan]

I believe this is the first time I've seen anyone glycerol freeze US-05.

 

[redrocker652002]

I'm pretty sure that is what he said it was. If so, I have about 20 vials of it as well as 10 that are just labeled Belgian. LOL

 

[mac_1103]

It's either going to grow or not. If it does grow then you can step it up to get a big enough starter for a batch. But I would taste the starter supernatant before I pitched the yeast into five or ten gallons of wort.

 

[day_trippr]

There are tools for propagating from a purchased package, and even from "over-builds", which work pretty well because one is usually starting within one order of magnitude of the target. I particularly like the "Homebrew Dad " yeast calculator for that work.

What do folks that freeze small test tubes use to calculate steps/volume/SG when they're starting a couple or few orders of magnitude from a pitchable quantity?

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

I believe this is the first time I've seen anyone glycerol freeze US-05.

You mean glycerol-freezing US-05 granules?
Yeah, that would be a first for me too. The granules themselves hold up very well, frozen, in the original pouch.

I've successfully made (big) starters from "inherited" US-05 with unknown past, then kept frozen in the original packaging for the last 8-10 years or so.

 

[ba-brewer]

What do folks that freeze small test tubes use to calculate steps/volume/SG when they're starting a couple or few orders of magnitude from a pitchable quantity?

I recently froze a couple strains but have tried to revive any yet. I know the number of cells I started with into the vial and will guestimate I have half of that when I thaw it out.

I do slants usually and those I assume I get 1Billion cells from a 10mL shaken starter, I feed that into the brew united spreadsheet as the starting point. Normal do a 100mL second step then a 500mL before a final 1 or 2litre step.

 

[day_trippr]

That doesn't sound too burdensome - I had expected more cycles to get from slant to pitch.

Cheers!

 

[redrocker652002]

That's not a slant!
It looks like a frozen slurry with glycerol added.

That bottom part could contain most of the yeast, settled out. But there is probably quite some yeast in the higher/granular region too.
Is the bottom part indeed pink?

I would use the whole tube here in a 100 ml 1.010 mini-starter, to start with, so to speak. No stir plate, hand swirled, as often as you can, you want to swirl out any CO2 that forms.

I don't think so, might have been the light and the camera on my phone. I will look again, but they are buried at the bottom of my freezer and everyone is asleep. LOL.

 

[redrocker652002]

After reading all of your replies I am wondering if it is worth it? I don't have any info except what I can remember when I met the person. I did not know enough to ask any questions and took what he wanted to give me. LOL.

I think the next time I pitch an ale yeast, most likely my next batch, I will have a few pint size mason jars on hand to pour the yeast in and throw it in the fridge. If that lasts at least 2 months that way, I should be good to go.

Also, when you make a starter, how do you know the yeast is working? I tried one with some 1056 I think it was and it did not seem like the yeast did anything. Does it make a Krausen like it would if it was in a fermenter?

I know these are all really stupid questions, but I figure why not ask. I don't think I will hear you all laugh at me thru the computer. LOL

 

[day_trippr]

[...]when you make a starter, how do you know the yeast is working?[...] Does it make a Krausen like it would if it was in a fermenter?

I use a stir plate for my starters and there is always substantial krausen when the yeast kicks off. I occasionally need to apply a drop of Fermcap to keep the yeast in the flask

Cheers!

 

[redrocker652002]

I use a stir plate for my starters and there is always substantial krausen when the yeast kicks off. I occasionally need to apply a drop of Fermcap to keep the yeast in the flask

Cheers!

Perfect. That makes a whole lot of sense. Maybe I will grab a can of the starter Morebeer sells and see what happens. I will make sure I have some fresh stuff at the ready as well.

 

[IslandLizard]

Maybe I will grab a can of the starter Morebeer sells and see what happens.

Why throwing good after bad?
IMO, it's not worth it, unless it's for science of course. A fresh pouch of US-05 cost probably less than a can of Propper/Fast Pitch.

Now when you're brewing, you can easily make a slightly larger batch, saving a few quarts of wort out to freeze and use for starters.

 

[redrocker652002]

Why throwing good after bad?
IMO, it's not worth it, unless it's for science of course. A fresh pouch of US-05 cost probably less than a can of Propper/Fast Pitch.

Now when you're brewing, you can easily make a slightly larger batch, saving a few quarts of wort out to freeze and use for starters.

Just my nature to try something as related to the hobby. If it works, I now have about 20 vials of S05 free, that should offset the cost of the starter, right? But pulling a small amount of wort before I pitch the yeast for the batch sounds even better. Then it is a true test of the yeast worth. But, if my wort is say 1.050 would that be too high for the vial of yeast to get going? Or do I dilute it to be in the range of 1.010 that was suggested earlier? All good info, thank you all for taking the time to read and post.

 

[IslandLizard]

But pulling a small amount of wort before I pitch the yeast for the batch sounds even better.

There's a source of free wort, it's left behind with the trub in your kettle. Usually 1-2 quarts worth.
You can strain it through a large, fine mesh (hop) bag placed inside a funnel with a recovery container underneath. It may take an hour or more for all of the wort to drain through. Let any fine trub that came through settle out, and decant the clear wort.

Boil up the recovered wort, chill, and use right away, or store in mason jars in the fridge for a few days. Or freeze for future use.
Before use, reboil for all security, correct gravity, let chill, and voila, there's your free starter wort.

Hopped wort is not bad to use for starters, it actually deters certain bugs from growing, such as lactobacillus.

 

[mac_1103]

If it works, I now have about 20 vials of S05 free, that should offset the cost of the starter, right?

Nope. You're going to need to make a starter every time you thaw one of those vials, so if you're overpaying for the canned starter wort you will never catch up. Just make your own from the cheapest DME you can find.

 

[tdf]

If you buy a 3lb bag of dme for ~$20 and you assume you need to make a 2L starter for your batch (folding in any step ups you'll probably have to do):
You get roughly 7 starters from that bag, ~$3 each. There's some other small costs from yeast nutrient, water, energy to boil the starter, but I'll ignore that.

It's not hard to find us-05 packets for less than $4.00 if you buy a few at once. If you're brewing again within a month you can get multiple batches from that $4.00. Even if not, for me the price difference is not worth the extra time + effort and especially not worth the chance of infection or dead yeast.

 

[GoodTruble]

Has anyone tried freezing yeast Straight from a liquid yeast pack? I split a liquid yeast pack from Omega to make two starters this weekend. There was still a bit of slurry in the package after I initially poured it out. So I grabbed a sterile vial, filled it 1/3 with slurry, and topped with glycerol mix. I usually just make a couple of frozen vials from the starters with glycerol mix whenever I have an interesting yeast (this was Omega Wit), but I am not sure I've ever read about making one straight out of the liquid yeast pouch. Good idea or bad idea?

 

[GoodTruble]

Quick follow-up - the Omega wit yeast is producing the stankest rotten egg smell I have ever experienced in a fermentation. I'm sure it will still taste fine (Wyeast Forbidden Fruit has a similar (but not as intense) smell and produced great beers in my experience).

But unless these two beers turn out really exceptional, I may stick with other Wit yeasts in the future. I just came home and wondered if there was a sewer backup somewhere. Not looking forward to my wife getting home. This may be the first yeast that gets banned at my house. =c).

But I'm still interested in the above question about freezing yeadt straight out of the liquid yeast pack (-even if I may not be using the vials again any time soon).

 

[Bassman2003]

Has anyone tried freezing yeast Straight from a liquid yeast pack? I split a liquid yeast pack from Omega to make two starters this weekend. There was still a bit of slurry in the package after I initially poured it out. So I grabbed a sterile vial, filled it 1/3 with slurry, and topped with glycerol mix. I usually just make a couple of frozen vials from the starters with glycerol mix whenever I have an interesting yeast (this was Omega Wit), but I am not sure I've ever read about making one straight out of the liquid yeast pouch. Good idea or bad idea?

Yes, that is actually the safest way as the yeast is straight from the factory. Another way that @McMullan was kind enough to demonstrate is to put a small amount of that packaged yeast in to a 2ml vial and keep it in your fridge. When it is time to brew just start it in a small amount of 1.010-1.020 wort (50-100ml) and step it up from there. If you do not want to purchase any new yeast, then reuse from a batch and repeat.