Using saflager s23 yeast please

[ipbr21054]

As i have just started making my own brew etc i believe i have all the items/tools i require to get going.

I am starting a lager brew on sunday "brew buddy lager" and i will be making it in my shed.
I have been making a log of the temperatures within the shed over the last week at 6am,12am,6pm & 10 pm & temps are between 8 - 15 degrees min - max.
As it will be made in the shed which will be cooler than in the house i have read on hear about the Saflager S23 Yeast.
I have bought some of this yeast as it works well at 11 - 15 degrees i have been told.
My question is the yeast in the original kit quotes 4 - 6 days in the fermentation bin but as i am using this saflager yeast what is the duration in the bin ???
Is it just a matter of taking sg readings after x amount of days or what ?
The kit does not mention anything about the final sg to give me any help like the cider i have just made which read 998 or less is safe to move to the pressure barrell.

Thanks.

 

[tranceamerica]

hello, you should simply wait until airlock activity stops, then measure the gravity. measure again in 24 hours, and if it's dropping, wait until it stops dropping. if it does not drop, then it's ready for bottling.

Or, you can do what I often do, and simply wait 3 weeks and know that it's done...of course now, on a couple of batches, at 3 weeks I can tell it's NOT done (because of obvious airlock activity) so my method isn't foolproof at all.

 

[Chriso]

Are the temperatures you posted in Celsius or Fahrenheit? Also when you say "making it" do you mean that you are brewing it in your shed? Or that you are going to be storing your fermentation vessel in your shed?

With the Saflager yeast, I recommend using temperature control of some kind. It doesn't have to be a fridge with a Ranco controller. Many use a large tub in which they place their carboy or bucket, and then fill the remainder of the tub partially with water. The water helps to minimize the amount of temperature change that the wort experiences during fermentation. If the water (and subsequently, the wort) get slightly too warm, then you just add a small amount of ice to the water in the tub, thus reducing the temperature.

I would let the Saflager ferment for at least 10 days, then take a hydrometer reading. It might take longer than that, depending on how the outdoors temperature fluctuation affects its process.

If you post the contents/recipe of the kit, we may be able to help you calculate an OG and FG reading.

 

[wolfboy]

Hello
Past April, I had use the fermentis saflager S-23 that came with the Bock kit by Festa brew. I am drinking the final result now and its good. I will fill you in on my experience then I will answer your question.

The yeast's best before date was april 2008. So i was worried that the yeast might be bad. Ofcourse, best before date depends if the storage temp. was optimal. In the end I had decent results.

I believe you are using an open fermenter, such as a bin. Thats what i used as well. The temperature in my apartment at the time was 23C (74F). Since I worried that my yeast may be slow to start due to its age, I mix the yeast in sterile water first and waited for around 30 mins, then I pitch the whole thing into the wort, which was aggressively poured. The yeast didn't start fermenting until ~12 hours after the pitching, which is acceptable. I have read elsewhere that others have observed around the same time for this yeast to kick in on activity. Importantly, do not just wait 4-6 days. Check the fermenting activity everyday and siphon it into the secondary when fermentation subsides. Therefore, my primary lasted around 4 days, the secondary around 8 days, all under 23C temp. The bock beer taste clean, but does have an extra spiciness to the beer, no off flavors. The initial and final gravity fit within the range specified for the kit.

To answer you question. Ferment in the bin for 4-6 days, but transfer the beer as soon as fermentation activity subsides. Good luck.

 

[ipbr21054]

I did think of using the airlock as a guide but did not know a rough duration of the process,i was just worried that if i did not move it from the bin to the pressure barrell quick enough that all the yeast would die thus when i did put it into the pressure barrell and add sugar nothing would happen.So as you have left yours for 3 weeks is my theory wrong in that the yeast wont die.

........................................................

The temperatures i have mentioned are in celsius.
Yes i will be starting the whole brewing process in the shed.
Reference the receipe it was a brew buddy lager kit i bought.
At what point do i take the OG reading,do i fill the bin up with the kit/water/sugar then add the yeast and wait for it to start then do a SG reading thus being the OG reading ????? or please advise otherwise.

.....................................................................

The reson i am going to brew this lager in the shed is because the bin takes up a little room in my bedroom and as the yeast works nice from a lower temp that is why i did my temp log.
Now slightly confused as wolfboy mentions brew in bin for 4-6 days and tranceamerica mentions leave it for 3 weeks this now makes me ask the question to myself again does the yeast die thus when i put it in the pressure barrell will anything happen ?

And by putting all the ................ im not sure how to use the quote system

Thanks

 

[EvilTOJ]

Take your gravity reading after you've added your topup water and just before you pitch the yeast. Make sure that the water and the kit are mixed together a *lot*. Many new brewers don't get accurate readings because they add their topup water and don't mix enough.

Not everyone knows what a brew buddy lager kit is, or what it's ingredients are, which is why we asked. After searching it looks like it's hopped malt in a can.

Yeast don't immediately die off as soon as the sugars in the beer are eaten, they just go to sleep. You could leave the beer in the fermenter for months and the yeast will most likely be fine. 11 - 15ºC is perfect for lager yeast. Chriso gave excellent advice on how to keep the temps from fluctuating too wildly. Yeast will also ferment under pressure as well, but don't move the beer to the pressure barrel until fermentation is done.

And to Quote, click the Quote button in the lower righthand corner of the post screen.

 

[ipbr21054]

Ok thanks very much.

I am going to start to clean my items and get a brew on the go.
I will put the SG reading on here when done.

Cheers.

 

[ipbr21054]

Ok finshed that and the lid is on.

I have taken a reading and the OG is 1.042

When the air lock slows down and my readings become constant etc what is a good formula to use to obtain the % of the lager.

Thanks

 

[Yooper]

The formula for measuring alcohol by volume (ABV) % is:

(OG-FG) x 131= ABV.

So, your 1.042 will be the starting number, and whatever the beer finishes at will be the FG number.

Lagers take longer, so be prepared to let it ferment about 3 weeks before moving it.

 

[ipbr21054]

This lager has been on the go now for 5 days.
There is no activity within the airlock.
The SG is now 1.024.
I am using the saflager s23 yeast if that makes any difference.
There is a little brown scum/scum bubbles on the surface and smells great.

Just an update.

Do i need to prime my pint bottles with sugar when i eventualy start to bottle if so how much sugar do i add thanks.

 

[Chriso]

There is no activity within the airlock. The SG is now 1.024.

This is why I pull my hair out when aspiring brewers try to calculate their beer's progress through "bubbles per minute" or anything like that. Airlock activity is not a requisite of fermentation. I'm so happy you're backing us up with hydrometer readings, you da man!!

Do i need to prime my pint bottles with sugar when i eventualy start to bottle if so how much sugar do i add thanks.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=54551
There's a calculator in the thread I linked.

Basically, boil your priming sugar with water, cool to room temp, pour into bottling bucket, rack beer on top, gently mix, and then siphon into your bottles.

If you don't use a bottling bucket and instead bottle directly from your primary, and therefore need to put sugar directly into your bottles, I would recommend finding Carb-Tabs or similar product. (I have even heard of people using Smarties candy but I wouldn't recommend it personally). I would not recommend measuring your sugar directly into bottles because it won't really produce consistent results.

 

[ipbr21054]

The last SG reading i posted was taken on wednesday.

I have now taken another and it is 1.014

As there is no activity in the air lock how do i tell when to bottle the lager.

Is there a rough SG guide for the final SG to give me some knid of idea.

At the moment i know it is still fermenting as i poured of some lager into a jusg so i could fill up my trial jar & when i took the reading and wrote this message there was some milky yeast residue in the bottom of the jug so i know at the moment it is not ready.

Cheers and it smells great..

 

[Bobby_M]

Now's a good time to let the fermenter warm up for a couple days for a diacetyl rest. I've tasted beers fermented with S23 while they were cold and didn't detect any "buttery popcorn" flavor but then it reared its ugly head once it warmed up. After a couple days warm, you'll want to rack to secondary and get it into the 30-40F range for at least a month.

 

[Chriso]

As there is no activity in the air lock how do i tell when to bottle the lager.
[snip]
At the moment i know it is still fermenting as i poured of some lager into a jusg so i could fill up my trial jar & when i took the reading and wrote this message there was some milky yeast residue in the bottom of the jug so i know at the moment it is not ready.

Trust me. Wait. GIVE YOUR BEER TIME. It doesn't want you to rush it.

You brewed this on Sunday the 4th, correct? Let it keep fermenting for at least 5 more days. Leave it alone. Quit taking samples. RDWHAB. If you really feel like you have to "do something", take Bobby's advice and put the fermenting bin into a warmer area for a few days - I would move it to a 70deg F room on Sunday or Monday.

Next Wednesday, take another reading, and transfer it to your secondary. Then, like Bobby said, hold it in stable cold temperatures for at least a month.

If you're still itching for something to do, I recommend getting another bucket/bin and brewing another batch!!!

 

[ipbr21054]

I am not in a rush to do anything or drink it but as it is my first go and i have no air lock activity i do not wish to overlook anything or miss something i should of done.

also what does RDWHAB mean
Thanks

 

[Chriso]

RDWHAB means Relax, Don't Worry, Have A Beer.

It's supposed to be RDWHAHB (Have A Home Brew) but I guessed it was your first go, and altered it appropriately.

Now if you say "airlock activity" one more time, I'm gonna bonk you over the head with my mash paddle. Seriously, airlock activity does not tell you anything except that CO2 is escaping your vessel. If the lid isn't 100% air tight, it can escape elsewhere which makes your airlock not have activity. On mine, it frequently vents thru the grommet in which the airlock is placed.

Trust us, your yeast is still working, and needs time to do so.

I have found that it helps me to "get over it" by putting my fermenters into a cabinet in the basement, and ignoring they exist for as long as possible. Then I set up a notice to myself on my Google Calendar for 3 weeks from the day I brewed it - it alerts me, and then I go see what the "beer fairy" left in my box.

 

[ipbr21054]

If you really feel like you have to "do something", take Bobby's advice and put the fermenting bin into a warmer area for a few days - I would move it to a 70deg F room on Sunday or Monday.

Next Wednesday, take another reading, and transfer it to your secondary. Then, like Bobby said, hold it in stable cold temperatures for at least a month.

Yesterday "sunday"i moved the bin to a nice warm room where it is 25 degrees celsius.
I will take another SG reading as advised on wednesday and post it when done.
I cant transfer to my secondary as it is full so i will need to leave it in this bin which should not be a problem or i could i just bottle it with 1 teaspoon of sugar.

 

[Yooper]

Well, that's very warm even for an ale. A lager will not be the best tasting at that temperature, but I know you are very eager to have it be done. I suggest that for the next few brews, that you may want to use an ale yeast. They are much more tolerant of temperature variations, as well as faster to ferment.
I usually ferment my lagers for at least 2-3 weeks in primary, then rack and begin the lagering period for 4-6 weeks. You really can't rush a lager, so an ale might suit you better.

 

[ipbr21054]

Next Wednesday, take another reading, and transfer it to your secondary. Then, like Bobby said, hold it in stable cold temperatures for at least a month.

I have taken another reading and the SG is 1.008
I have no empty secondary at the moment as it is full.

I have plenty of bottles.
What do you advise,keep it in the bin for another week or do you think it is safe to put in bottles at the moment.

cheers

 

[Chriso]

THERE's the gravity readings we want to see!

Normally I suggest buying another bin. Anyone will tell ya, You're always either out of buckets or drowning in empty ones! Seriously, it's a low investment that you'll get lots of use out of. I'd transfer to a sanitized secondary and hold it for a month. Hence "lagering".

BUT. We're going to move on to Plan B since I know you're not really looking for another spare bin. I just had to put Plan A out there for my own peace of mind.

Do you have a bottling bucket? Or are you bottling straight out of your bin???

I'm assuming you have a bottling bucket, so then go ahead and prepare your priming sugar in boiling water and let it cool. Pour the sugar into your sanitized bottling bucket, and rack the beer into it. Once you've racked into it, go ahead and fill your bottles as normal, and cap 'em.

I would hold your bottles at 70F for 2 weeks so that they can carbonate, then I would move them all into lagering temperatures for at least - what, a month? (Someone more experienced with lagering should error-check this, as I brew ales!)

+1 to doing some ales in the future so that you have a chance to solidify your process. I'm not familiar with any aspiring brewers that started with lagering first, and brewed ales later in their career. But maybe someone knows one.

 

[ipbr21054]

1..Ok your right i dont have a bottling bucket so it will be coming straight out of the fermenting bin into my bottles.

2..I will add 1 tsp of sugar to each bottle and fill them up leaving a 1" head space at the top of each bottle before capping.

3..I will leave the bottles for 2 weeks in a room at about 70f.

4..After the 2 weeks are up do i then need to move them to somewhere cooler and if so roughly what temp do you suggest,i will leave them there for 1 month.

5..I assume i can drink one of them now ???

Please advise on the 1" head space if needed & question 4.

Thanks very much.

 

[Chriso]

You can get a food-grade bucket for $4 at your local Wal-Mart, just ask the gal in the bakery. You can get the spigot for $2-3 from any online Home Brew Supply store. (Austin Homebrew, Northern Brewer, Midwest, Etc.) Or, I bought a spare spigot (in case one of mine breaks/etc) at my LHBS for $3.50.

I cannot and will not ever recommend sugar-directly-in-bottle method. Other people believe it is fine, I do not. Just my personal $0.02, that is why opinions are such a great thing.

Hopefully someone will chime in here with more suggestions.

As for your other questions:

1" headspace is fine.

As for #4, I can't really advise as I haven't personally brewed a lager, I just know "on paper" how to. Consult your recipe, or your yeast, or How To Brew. Or, again, maybe someone will jump in here.

For #5, sure, but you'll get Beer Farts, and it's flat. I don't mind flat homebrew, I drink my leftovers after I've bottled my batch. Just try not to get too big of a mouthful of yeast when you take the last drink. That'll give ya the runs.

 

[ipbr21054]

For #5, sure, but you'll get Beer Farts, and it's flat. I don't mind flat homebrew, I drink my leftovers after I've bottled my batch. Just try not to get too big of a mouthful of yeast when you take the last drink. That'll give ya the runs.

I mean drinking the lager in the bottles NOT the left overs in the fermenting bucket.
I dont wish to drink it if it tastes flat,i dont want to have beer farts & i dont want the runs.


OR
......
If i get the bin from asda walmart and add my priming sugar and then add the brew to it complete with lid & air lock then leave it for say 2 months ?
This i assume is plan A and what amount of priming sugar should i add.
I take it that you only add enough hot water to dissolve the sugar.
Once the transfer is complete i can then tip away all the yeast in the first bin and give it a clean for something else.

What is the advantage of moving it from the original bin to a second bin ??

 

[Chriso]

OK I think you're missing a couple basic building blocks that I've been trying to put more blocks on top of. Let's back up just a minute here.

=====Secondary Fermentation=====
A secondary fermenter is to clarify your beer and let it age.

The principle of lagering is built around holding your beer for a long period of time at a cold temperature to clarify your beer, help it age, and change its taste a little. Lagering can be done "in bulk" (e.g. in your secondary fermenter) or "in bottle".

If you are going to secondary your beer, you do not put the priming sugar in yet. That still goes in at bottling time. If you put priming sugar into your secondary fermenter with an airlock on it, the CO2 will escape through the airlock and your beer will remain flat.

Priming sugar + beer + bottles = a pressurized environment, which is necessary to force the CO2 into solution in your beer.

If you move to a secondary, yes, you can clean out the primary bin and use it for your next batch.

=====Switch gears: Bottling Your Beer=====

When I mentioned the ASDA/Wal-Mart bucket idea, I was referring to making your own bottling bucket. With a bottling bucket, you mix your priming sugar (1st boiled in water to sanitize, then cooled in a sanitized covered container) and your beer. This evenly distributes the sugars throughout your beer so that all the bottles are carbonated to the same level. Then you dispense out of the bottling bucket (hence the spigot I referred to) into your bottles and cap them.

You can calculate how much priming sugar to use with an online calculator (see http://www.franklinbrew.org/tools/carb.html) - Different styles of beer should be carbonated to different levels to be "true to style".

As far as drinking it, if you want it to be carbonated, then no, it is not "drinkable" the day that you bottle it. To fully develop carbonation takes 2-3 weeks at 70 degrees F. Longer if you hold it at a colder temperature. Edit: I get it now. When you said "I can drink one of them now?" I thought you meant "now" as in the day you bottled them, not "now" as in step 5 after you've let it carbonate, then lagered it for a month. Sorry for the miscommunication.

=====Advice=====

I highly recommend that you read How To Brew (http://howtobrew.com/section1/index.html) in its entirety before you start your next batch. Read it for understanding, not a "quick skim" like you used to do in high school (I know I HATED reading back then!). I'd even read it three or four times to get the "full message". This will help you to create a very solid foundation of knowledge that you can build your brewing technique on top of. Without this foundation, it is very hard for us to understand your process and offer you advice.

There's even a whole section just on brewing a lager beer. (http://howtobrew.com/section1/chapter10.html)

If I were in your shoes, though, I'd stick to brewing ales only for a little while until you've got your brewing and fermenting processes down pat.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Philip1993]

The basic steps on brewing - Cliff Notes version

1. Brewing: Boil the wort and ingredients according to the recipe.
2. Pitching: Cool to yeast friendly temp, toss in the yeast
3. Primary fermentation: Uses airlock, takes place in bucket #1 for about 1 week. Do not use airlock activity or the calendar to judge the end of primary fermentation. The end is signaled by a FG of about 1.008. (Note: proper FG is *very* dependent on yeast/style)

4. Secondary fermentation: Siphon beer off sleeping yeast in bucket #1 into secondary fermenter (bucket #2). This step also uses an airlock (little to no activity) and takes place in bucket #2 for 1-4 weeks. Secondary fermentation gives yeast time to clean up and go to sleep. This step is also called clarifying or brightening and a secondary fermenter is called a "Bright Tank" in some locales. Note: May experienced brewers skip this step. If so, extend step #3 appropriately and then go to step 5.

5. Diacetyl rest: Raise beer temp to 70°F for 24-72 hrs. Used only specific styles (lagers) to eliminate a chemical (diacetyl) that causes buttery flavors.

6. Lagering: Used on lager style beers to clarify and improve flavor profile. Takes place at about 35°F and lasts from 1 month to over 1 year. Note: Lagering can be done after carbonation step.

7. Priming/bottling: Takes place in bucket #3 (or #1). Boil priming sugar to sterilize, cool, pour into bucket. Siphon beer from bucket #2 into sugars and stir. Siphon primed beer into bottles and cap. Yeast will eat sugar and expel CO2. Since the bottle is sealed, the CO2 will dissolve and carbonate the beer. Note: Adding sugar directly to bottles is inaccurate, unsanitary, and may lead to exploding beer bottles.

<At this point, beer is drinkable but flat and "green". Not ready for regular consumption>

8. Carbonation: Takes place over 21 days at 70°F.

<At this point, beer is drinkable. Some styles may require additional time to develop fully (i.e. lagers). All styles will benefit from additional time to develop>

9. Conditioning/lagering: Takes place over many months. Conditioning temp varies by style, but lagers generally require 35°F for several months.


I hope that clarifies the basic steps/timeline. My post makes a lot of assumptions and glosses over a lot of detail (read the recommended book for that), but should help you stitch together the great advice that has been provided.

Philip

P.S. Please don't pour sugar directly into the bottles (search "bottle bombs"). Clean bucket #1 and re-use it if you must. I use 3 buckets, but only because #3 has a spigot for bottling, and bucket #1 does not.

 

[ipbr21054]

Ok i did actually understand what you meant but me typing a reply and knowing what i mean is different to what you think i mean,if that makes sense.

I will get another bin and add the priming sugar once dissolved etc and then transfer the lager from the first bin to the new bin without taking across the yeast at the bottom.
Give it a gentle stir to evenly distribute the priming sugars then fill up my bottles.

Leave in a warm room for 2 weeks at around 70 f the move to a cooler place for a month or two.

This should now be correct and what i thought in the first place but typing to replies gets a bit confusing if you know what i mean,its not as easy as over the phone disscusion.

 

[Chriso]

Cool. I think you're on track, then.

 

[Philip1993]

Correct with one glaring exception:

Leave in a warm room for 2 weeks at around 70f

Repeat this over and over to yourself;

Carbonation: Takes place over 21 days at 70°F.

 

[Chriso]

I fudged it, I typed "2-3 weeks" instead of "3". My bad.

He's right, listen to the BierMuncher Mantra. "3 weeks at 70 F. 3 weeks at 70 F. 3 weeks at 70 F. 3 weeks...."

 

[ipbr21054]

I fudged it, I typed "2-3 weeks" instead of "3". My bad.

He's right, listen to the BierMuncher Mantra. "3 weeks at 70 F. 3 weeks at 70 F. 3 weeks at 70 F. 3 weeks...."

Ok i will leave it 3 weeks at 70f then move it to a cool spot.

As this saflager s23 is a bottom fermenter "i think" and i have a tap in my bin i am pretty sure that when i pulled off a sample to get the SG there was a nice supply of yeast sludge in the bottom of the jug so had i better siphon the lager from the top otherwise i will end up with another bin which has a ready supply of yeast which defeats the object i suppose.

One day i will have made this lager and have some to drink.
On the can it said 4 - 6 days then 2 weeks in a second bin then drink it,dont think so somehow.
I am not in a hurry to drink it but need advice on my first brew so next time i dont have to keep asking questions.
I have just had a look at the priming calculater and entered 70f,2.4 co2, & 5 gallon batch & it came back with 108 gramms of sugar.
So i put 108 gramms of sugar in my new bin dissolve with water add the lager cover and have a nice rest,or my fingers at least.

Thanks very much for your help and advice with being a new brewer.