Upgraded the SS braid and got an extra 12+pts to efficiency= YES !

[Oceantendency]

So I replaced the old deformed SS braid setup to a straight SS piece connecting to a SS braid ring. Well it freakin' works great ! Last night I crushed my first batch of grains with my new Barley Crusher, WOW, big upgrade from my Phil Mill or having to run up the street to the LBHS and get crushed. Had everything prepped last night, got up at 4am and lit the burner, mashing in by 5:15, finished cleanly before 11am, and jumped from 68% efficiency to 81.5% efficiency ! Major improvement on the Mash/Lauter/Batch Sparge/Lauter. The new SS circular braid plus extension, made everything from stirring to allowing the bed to settle more evenly to even drains twice faster with super clean runnings. Clearest first and second runnings I've had ever. The bad news (not really, but aiming for a Saison with a honey and fall season tweak to it, I majorly overshot my OG of 1.066 and got 1.073 instead, which even my target was expecting an increase in efficiency).

Short of it:
8lbs8oz- Belgian 2*L Pilsner
2lbs8.2oz- Honey Malt
1lb8.2oz- Vienna
8.2oz- Caravienne
1.1oz-Choc
4.2oz- White Wheat
1oz- Kent Goldings UK @40min
0.5oz- Germ Hallertau @ 9min
11.6oz- Honey @ 9min
Nutmeg, Ground Ginger, Cloves, 3 whole cinnamon sticks, Irish moss- @ 9min
commercial Saison Yeast from Iron Fist Saison (Hired Hand) + starter
Decoction attempt: 5 gal strike @ 145* for 15 min then 156* for 55 min
2.5 gallons sparge water, dump, stir veraciously for a 20 seconds and a few times throughout plus shaking the cooler side to side a few times for 20 minutes.
70 min boil, cooled to 70* in under 25 min, pitched some Yeast propagated and grown from cultured Saison yeast, started starter on Halloween.
3hrs- fermentation slowly taking off but already bubbling.

 

[pondochris]

Nice! No pic of the new SS braid?

 

[Oceantendency]

Nice! No pic of the new SS braid?

Sorry about that, here ya go

 

[BansheeRider]

Sorry about that, here ya go

Nice! Would you mind sharing where you got the splitter for the SS braid? I have just the single braid, I like your setup better.

 

[Oceantendency]

Nice! Would you mind sharing where you got the splitter for the SS braid? I have just the single braid, I like your setup better.

Hey man thanks! extremely easy to find at Home Depot or Lowe's, but HD is closer. Very easy to put together.
Home Depot:
3- SS clamps- $.89/each ?
1- SharkBite PEX (1/2"x1/2"x1/2" Tee)

 

[BansheeRider]

Hey man thanks! extremely easy to find at Home Depot or Lowe's, but HD is closer. Very easy to put together.
Home Depot:
3- SS clamps- $.89/each ?
1- SharkBite PEX (1/2"x1/2"x1/2" Tee)

SharkBite Pex is the split adapter? Does the braid float up during the mash?

 

[Oceantendency]

SharkBite Pex is the split adapter? Does the braid float up during the mash?

It's actually brass, Lead Free, for use with Potable Water. But has PEX in the upper left corner. So no; it doesn't float at all.

 

[BackAlley]

Last night I crushed my first batch of grains with my new Barley Crusher.

How come you attribute your improved efficiency to the braid and not the mill? Are you batch or fly sparging? If it's batch, I'm not sure how a different manifold can help with efficiency.

 

[wilserbrewer]

How come you attribute your improved efficiency to the braid and not the mill? Are you batch or fly sparging? If it's batch, I'm not sure how a different manifold can help with efficiency.

Good on You! Happy you found success! I agree with BackAlley, I think the efficiency is related to the mill. Any chance your old braid was polymer plastic fake braid and not SS? It looks odd to me how deformed it is. While I like your new braid, I have found that anything beyond the first 4-5 inches of braid is merely for show, the wort leaves the cooler through the easiest path, that being the braid closest to the bulkhead.

 

[Oceantendency]

How come you attribute your improved efficiency to the braid and not the mill? Are you batch or fly sparging? If it's batch, I'm not sure how a different manifold can help with efficiency.

I'm def impressed with my Barley Crusher for sure and will leave at current setting ( .032ish-.034ish, cheap feeler gauge). I usually get a really nice crush from Mother Earth Brewery, but with every batch my lautering rate would vary, and I've def improved my batch sparging skills. I've learned you have to pour in 180*-185* and make sure the grain bed itself at or around 160*, stir vigoursly, and every few minutes shake the tun back and forth to really rinse those remaining sugars out. My water calculations came out better ( stayed with a thinner mash versus last batch was too thick at 1.3qts/lb), I also was able to drain more water out of the tun than before, but yes I have to really tilt the cooler at the end, but I get it. Here's a pic towards then end of my sparge runnings, mostly clear, but still contributed some color. It usually takes me about 25-30 minutes to lauter 2.5-3 gallons of sparge water, it only took 15 minutes for 2.5 gallons.

So since my crush is usually pretty good, I mean would a change in .001-.003 really up your efficiency that much from the crush?

 

[Oceantendency]

Good on You! Happy you found success! I agree with BackAlley, I think the efficiency is related to the mill. Any chance your old braid was polymer plastic fake braid and not SS? It looks odd to me how deformed it is. While I like your new braid, I have found that anything beyond the first 4-5 inches of braid is merely for show, the wort leaves the cooler through the easiest path, that being the braid closest to the bulkhead.

Thank you, yeah I guess the mill contributed to the bump, but the tun def works better over all and my skills have improved a bit more for consistency as well. I've found so far even in my testing up to brew day that the straight piece and then the ring just sits better, doesn't move around much at all, and allows for more settling. The long braid before (it feels and looks like SS, the guy said it was, but just seems it was used for a bunch of brews, plus I picked up the tun for $15) would float a lil bit and then when you stirred it would get contorted and stuff. Thanks again for your input.

 

[Rev2010]

I too would agree the mill was likely the largest efficiency contributor. Before I got my Barley Crusher I had my grains crushed by the LHBS's I'd ordered from and my efficiency was all over the place. Since getting my BC I get 81% efficiency every time across the board except for when doing pumpkin ale's since there's all the pumpkin goop and rice hulls, there I usually get 75-77%. With my wheat beers I tighten up the gap a little and my wheat's also now have a consistent 81% efficiency, they were coming in lower with the default gap setting. Funny thing to note is when bringing this up in the past many other BC owners quoted efficiency ranges at or closely around 81%. Of course there are other factors involved in efficiency and your braid might surely have helped up your efficiency. I've been using a bazooka screen since my second time doing AG (had a problem with the false bottom so I switched).


Rev.

 

[Oceantendency]

If I can stay consistant at or around 81% effeciency= I would stay this stoked.

 

[arborman]

So I replaced the old deformed SS braid setup to a straight SS piece connecting to a SS braid ring. Well it freakin' works great ! Last night I crushed my first batch of grains with my new Barley Crusher, WOW, big upgrade from my Phil Mill or having to run up the street to the LBHS and get crushed. Had everything prepped last night, got up at 4am and lit the burner, mashing in by 5:15, finished cleanly before 11am, and jumped from 68% efficiency to 81.5% efficiency ! Major improvement on the Mash/Lauter/Batch Sparge/Lauter. The new SS circular braid plus extension, made everything from stirring to allowing the bed to settle more evenly to even drains twice faster with super clean runnings. Clearest first and second runnings I've had ever. The bad news (not really, but aiming for a Saison with a honey and fall season tweak to it, I majorly overshot my OG of 1.066 and got 1.073 instead, which even my target was expecting an increase in efficiency). Short of it: 8lbs8oz- Belgian 2*L Pilsner 2lbs8.2oz- Honey Malt 1lb8.2oz- Vienna 8.2oz- Caravienne 1.1oz-Choc 4.2oz- White Wheat 1oz- Kent Goldings UK @40min 0.5oz- Germ Hallertau @ 9min 11.6oz- Honey @ 9min Nutmeg, Ground Ginger, Cloves, 3 whole cinnamon sticks, Irish moss- @ 9min commercial Saison Yeast from Iron Fist Saison (Hired Hand) + starter Decoction attempt: 5 gal strike @ 145* for 15 min then 156* for 55 min 2.5 gallons sparge water, dump, stir veraciously for a 20 seconds and a few times throughout plus shaking the cooler side to side a few times for 20 minutes. 70 min boil, cooled to 70* in under 25 min, pitched some Yeast propagated and grown from cultured Saison yeast, started starter on Halloween. 3hrs- fermentation slowly taking off but already bubbling.

Nice! Hey, how do you like that cube mash tun? I just ordered that, 60 qt size. My 10 gallon round igloo is too small for any 10 gallon batches. Hoping my bulkhead in my round tun can go straight into my new cube when it comes.

 

[zippybasher]

I'm def impressed with my Barley Crusher for sure and will leave at current setting ( .032ish-.034ish, cheap feeler gauge).

I usually get a really nice crush from Mother Earth Brewery,

So since my crush is usually pretty good, I mean would a change in .001-.003 really up your efficiency that much from the crush?

I buy all my grains here and Yes it is because of your new Barley Crusher. There crush is REALLY BAD. I have to ask them to tighten the crush everytime and still come home with unmilled grains. Consistent 62%=Weak.

Funny, You have the same Tun as me and shop at the same store, We should brew sometime! (Not to mention, it looks like you fish too!):rockin:

I am actually going to get a BC soon just because the crush is sooo bad at ME. Great people though!

 

[Oceantendency]

Nice! Hey, how do you like that cube mash tun? I just ordered that, 60 qt size. My 10 gallon round igloo is too small for any 10 gallon batches. Hoping my bulkhead in my round tun can go straight into my new cube when it comes.

Well I have way more room necessary for 5 gallons batches, I easily have room for 10 gallon batches if I upgrade my kettles, only have 8 gallon SS kettles. I like the fact that they hold tons of volume and hold a steady temp for about an hour, I always throw a towel over it to be on the safe side and love the fact that you can shake back and forth to shake it up during the batch sparge, the only downside is tilting at the end to get most of the wort out, but I got it dialed in to where I get @ 98-99% of it out. What size bulkhead do you have on the round MLT; it might take a minor adjustment, but they're really easy to mod.

 

[Oceantendency]

I buy all my grains here and Yes it is because of your new Barley Crusher. There crush is REALLY BAD. I have to ask them to tighten the crush everytime and still come home with unmilled grains. Consistent 62%=Weak.

Funny, You have the same Tun as me and shop at the same store, We should brew sometime! (Not to mention, it looks like you fish too!):rockin:

I am actually going to get a BC soon just because the crush is sooo bad at ME. Great people though!

http://beersmith.com/barley-crusher/
They have the 7lb hopper on sale right now for $109.95 + Shipping, takes a couple weeks to get, but for that price how can you complain..right? I typically will throw some fish in the smoker after brewing, especially some WSB or YT, I freedive and spearfish a bunch, so we always have fresh fish, vacuum sealed to go. BTW smoked lobster is A_mazing. Keeps the mother in law happy too.

I always wondered if there crush was to blame for my inconsistency, eventhough the crush looked decent. But they are pretty good, if you're in Oside, don't you shop at Hydrobrew as well? They're pretty good people in there. Lars also owns Tidewater, guy really knows his stuff too.

 

[Denny]

How come you attribute your improved efficiency to the braid and not the mill? Are you batch or fly sparging? If it's batch, I'm not sure how a different manifold can help with efficiency.

THIS^^^^

There's no way the braid made the difference. A 2 inch piece of braid works just as well as 3 ft. in a circular configuration.

 

[Oceantendency]

THIS^^^^

There's no way the braid made the difference. A 2 inch piece of braid works just as well as 3 ft. in a circular configuration.

Before the braid would float around, obviously used up and getting kinked, was having hard times lautering, grain bed didn't settle as evenly before. The circle has more surface area, lays flat all the time doesn't float, I didn't have a 2" straight piece on there before and don't have a 3' circle, so how would you come to the conclusion that the braid had no effect on the effeciency of the operation of the tun. Yes I know now that my setting on the Barley Crusher was the largest contributor, however, grain bed settling, lautering, no stuck sparging, etc versus a grain bed that didn't settle as good, had difficulties lautering and getting less of the wort out.

How would only a 2" piece be better versus a circular braid? Considering there is a 3 and 1/2" separation from the drain to a downward angle to the actual bottom of the tun, a 2" piece would just be poking out straight and wouldn't aid in helping to settle the grain bed.

I went through the Appendix E of John Palmer's How to Brew as my basis of ideas for the design along with other designs of cubed mash cooler setups.

 

[Denny]

Before the braid would float around, obviously used up and getting kinked, was having hard times lautering, grain bed didn't settle as evenly before. The circle has more surface area, lays flat all the time doesn't float, I didn't have a 2" straight piece on there before and don't have a 3' circle, so how would you come to the conclusion that the braid had no effect on the effeciency of the operation of the tun. Yes I know now that my setting on the Barley Crusher was the largest contributor, however, grain bed settling, lautering, no stuck sparging, etc versus a grain bed that didn't settle as good, had difficulties lautering and getting less of the wort out.

How would only a 2" piece be better versus a circular braid? Considering there is a 3 and 1/2" separation from the drain to a downward angle to the actual bottom of the tun, a 2" piece would just be poking out straight and wouldn't aid in helping to settle the grain bed.

I went through the Appendix E of John Palmer's How to Brew as my basis of ideas for the design along with other designs of cubed mash cooler setups.

OK, first, John's instructions relate to fly sparging. If you batch sparge, they don't matter.

A braid is porous...wort flows in and out of it along it's length. All the draining happens at the outlet of your tun, not along the length of the braid. You can prove it to yourself by filling your cooler with water and let it start draining. Lift up the braid so that all but a few inches are out of the water. The flow rate won't change.

I have tested this many times with many different configurations.

 

[jflongo]

I have a similar cooler. I put a brass tee in mine, and then just did a oval with the SS braided line, and connected it to both sides of the tee, works well.

 

[Oceantendency]

OK, first, John's instructions relate to fly sparging. If you batch sparge, they don't matter.

A braid is porous...wort flows in and out of it along it's length. All the draining happens at the outlet of your tun, not along the length of the braid. You can prove it to yourself by filling your cooler with water and let it start draining. Lift up the braid so that all but a few inches are out of the water. The flow rate won't change.

I have tested this many times with many different configurations.

Denny, I'm looking and reading the book right now "Page 294 on building a SS braided Ring: last paragraph: A ring that divides the area equally in half (inside and outside of ring) is nearly as effective as a false bottom for uniformity of sparge flow during continuous sparging. Flow uniformity doesn't really matter for batch sparging, but it's nice to have." That's slightly different from they don't matter. Also if you look at the different setups that have a ring versus straight, notice how he adds that it's also good for continuous sparging, yep I saw it.

Doesn't matter (at all) and doesn't really matter but nice to have, shows difference between no effect versus little but beneficial variance. Also no further details on how there is a difference between lautering/draining in a general sense. Also continuous or fly sparging that he refers to most of the time is still draining at X rate versus whats being put back into the tun at X rate, so in that aspect is the no significance since batch versus continuous inputs differently into the Tun versus replacement; however lautering rate is still affected and Fluid Dynamics is still applied.

I understand how braid works, yes it is porous. But you are wrong about flow rate as the water nears the bottom, it's a minor detail but there is a slight difference. Simple water pressure proves along with experimentation that flow rate is increase with increased surface area, however near the end the water pressure on that outlet drops and in combination with less water pushing on that outlet, flow rates change due to pressure. Yes I have experimented too, and understand physics of water and water pressure. And yes I'm stating that your tidbit is slightly wrong. You forget that there is still pressure, very slight pressure, inside the core of the braid. 2" is not the same and you'd need to do the same water amount with 2" braid versus a longer braid or circular braid; not just lifting up the braid.

That's kinda like saying if you have a 1/2" pipe that you if you connected another 1/2" pipe to it, it would have the same PSI in the main pipe as if you took a 1/2" pipe and connected to a 3/4" pipe, the flow rate would increase traveling from the 3/4" pipe to the 1/2" pipe.

 

[Oceantendency]

I have a similar cooler. I put a brass tee in mine, and then just did a oval with the SS braided line, and connected it to both sides of the tee, works well.

Thank you, but not the same cooler, your cooler has a complete flat bottom, while mine has wheels so only part of the bottom is flat (see first page of pics). I wish mine had the flat bottom. What happens when the water gets below the T, do you tilt your cooler or just let the wort stay in there?

 

[jflongo]

Thank you, but not the same cooler, your cooler has a complete flat bottom, while mine has wheels so only part of the bottom is flat (see first page of pics). I wish mine had the flat bottom. What happens when the water gets below the T, do you tilt your cooler or just let the wort stay in there?

Mine has wheels as well but I removed them. And yes, after my initial mash time, I will prop it up on a small angle, to drain as much as possible.

 

[Denny]

Denny, I'm looking and reading the book right now "Page 294 on building a SS braided Ring: last paragraph: A ring that divides the area equally in half (inside and outside of ring) is nearly as effective as a false bottom for uniformity of sparge flow during continuous sparging. Flow uniformity doesn't really matter for batch sparging, but it's nice to have." That's slightly different from they don't matter. Also if you look at the different setups that have a ring versus straight, notice how he adds that it's also good for continuous sparging, yep I saw it.

Doesn't matter (at all) and doesn't really matter but nice to have, shows difference between no effect versus little but beneficial variance. Also no further details on how there is a difference between lautering/draining in a general sense. Also continuous or fly sparging that he refers to most of the time is still draining at X rate versus whats being put back into the tun at X rate, so in that aspect is the no significance since batch versus continuous inputs differently into the Tun versus replacement; however lautering rate is still affected and Fluid Dynamics is still applied.

I understand how braid works, yes it is porous. But you are wrong about flow rate as the water nears the bottom, it's a minor detail but there is a slight difference. Simple water pressure proves along with experimentation that flow rate is increase with increased surface area, however near the end the water pressure on that outlet drops and in combination with less water pushing on that outlet, flow rates change due to pressure. Yes I have experimented too, and understand physics of water and water pressure. And yes I'm stating that your tidbit is slightly wrong. You forget that there is still pressure, very slight pressure, inside the core of the braid. 2" is not the same and you'd need to do the same water amount with 2" braid versus a longer braid or circular braid; not just lifting up the braid.

That's kinda like saying if you have a 1/2" pipe that you if you connected another 1/2" pipe to it, it would have the same PSI in the main pipe as if you took a 1/2" pipe and connected to a 3/4" pipe, the flow rate would increase traveling from the 3/4" pipe to the 1/2" pipe.

He doesn't say why it's nice to have, does he? Look, I worked with John on the batch sparging part of his latest book. I fed him data and info. John doesn't batch sparge. I have batch sparged 450 times. With all due respect for my friend John, I know more about it than he does.

OK, you've got the braid theory. But my empirical evidence says that the theory doesn't have enough effect on reality to matter. But do what you like....I'll keep advocating doing it the simple way.

 

[Oceantendency]

He doesn't say why it's nice to have, does he? Look, I worked with John on the batch sparging part of his latest book. I fed him data and info. John doesn't batch sparge. I have batch sparged 450 times. With all due respect for my friend John, I know more about it than he does.

OK, you've got the braid theory. But my empirical evidence says that the theory doesn't have enough effect on reality to matter. But do what you like....I'll keep advocating doing it the simple way.

Denny, we would love to see why it's nice to have. Interested in your empirical evidence, if you don't mind. Also to what degree or variance coeffecient does the effect have? How did you quantify the data? I think people on here would love to see the testing data to understand the point better and not just word of mouth. Interested in how you specifically designed and measured and quantified the different setups. Thank you for your input.

 

[Denny]

Denny, we would love to see why it's nice to have. Interested in your empirical evidence, if you don't mind. Also to what degree or variance coeffecient does the effect have? How did you quantify the data? I think people on here would love to see the testing data to understand the point better and not just word of mouth. Interested in how you specifically designed and measured and quantified the different setups. Thank you for your input.

Well, then you'll be disappointed. I didn't set this up to be empirical testing, just trying different things over the course of years and various batches. I'm not wanting to be a dickhead here....but I know what I know.

Again, as to John's comment, he doesn't say why even flow is "nice to have" in batch sparging. It speaks more to his lack of experience with batch sparging than anything else. Batch sparging is draining, not rinsing as in fly sparging. In the case of draining, even flow just doesn't matter becasue it's all draining out of a single location.

 

[GuldTuborg]

The only reason I can see this being an issue is in the filtering effect the grain bed has. Otherwise, my experience has also been that it doesn't matter any. Then again, I could be talking out my arse, I haven't batch sparged 450 times!

 

[jflongo]

As you can see in my oval SS braided hose in Post #21, I have considered, cutting both sides off, and then just pinching them together, so they go straight sideways. I think that would have the same effect, and reduce my chance of hitting the hose a lot during mash in and stirring.

 

[Denny]

As you can see in my oval SS braided hose in Post #21, I have considered, cutting both sides off, and then just pinching them together, so they go straight sideways. I think that would have the same effect, and reduce my chance of hitting the hose a lot during mash in and stirring.

Yep, that would work.