TSP-PF (Phosphate Free)

[SBENCIV]

So I just mixed up my first batch of DIY brewery wash. All of the recipes I found called for Red Devil TSP/90. Problem is: I couldn't find that anywhere. Not online, Not on Amazon, and absolutely nowhere locally. I ended up just using TSP-PF (Phosphate Free). I understand that the original TSP was considered very hazardous and was banned in many communities due to phosphates. So the TSP I used obviously contains no phosphates. My recipe ended up being 2 parts Oxy Free, 1 part TSP-PF, and some citric acid. Just tried it out on a keg and all of it's parts and it worked wonderfully. Anyone else have any experience with TSP-PF? Or know why TSP/90 is essentially unavailable??

 

[hotbeer]

Maybe real TSP is essentially unavailable in your area. But it's still in stock around me. Though I really don't care. Tide Free laundry powder has worked fine for the times I want to clean things very thoroughly. But even the powdered stuff is getting hard to find.

Maybe it's got more to do with all the supply chain issues from COVID still along with all the huge cargo container ships that are sinking in storms or being shelled by militant groups or taken over by pirates.

I wonder how much the Key Bridge falling into Baltimore Harbor is going to ripple out to all of us here in the US. Or for what ever is on that so far stuck ship that was outbound for elsewhere. I assume to foreign ports..

 

[passedpawn]

You can still get real TSP here at home depot in the paint department. Some states ban products with phosphates - but FL does not.

BTW, it's the opposite of hazardous. It's the high-fructose corn syrup of the plant world.

Plants LOVE phosphates. They love it so much that algae grows out of control when it is introduced into waterways. Excess algae and plant growth might seem like a small problem, but it does cause all sorts of issues with the fauna in our rivers and lakes. The excessive plant growth strips all the O2 out of the water, negatively affecting animal life.

 

[DuncB]

Refer to the homemade PBW thread for the TSP in brewery wash.

 

[SBENCIV]

Refer to the homemade PBW thread for the TSP in brewery wash.

I think I flubbed my question. Regular TSP is not available. Red Devil TSP/90 is not available. All that was available was TSP-PF - that's what I used. Doesn't really matter anyway, I mixed it up and it seems to work great. Carry on!

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I bought that stuff by accident. They label it "TSP" to make you think you're getting the real thing. I threw my box in a dumpster and found TSP at Lowe's.

I don't think the tablespoon I use every month will bring about the end of the world.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Maybe real TSP is essentially unavailable in your area. But it's still in stock around me. Though I really don't care. Tide Free laundry powder has worked fine for the times I want to clean things very thoroughly. But even the powdered stuff is getting hard to find.

Maybe it's got more to do with all the supply chain issues from COVID still along with all the huge cargo container ships that are sinking in storms or being shelled by militant groups or taken over by pirates.

I wonder how much the Key Bridge falling into Baltimore Harbor is going to ripple out to all of us here in the US. Or for what ever is on that so far stuck ship that was outbound for elsewhere. I assume to foreign ports..

I don’t know much about it, but, I personally know two people who work for companies that have containers on that ship that were being imported.

 

[DuncB]

I think I flubbed my question. Regular TSP is not available. Red Devil TSP/90 is not available. All that was available was TSP-PF - that's what I used. Doesn't really matter anyway, I mixed it up and it seems to work great. Carry on!

The homemade versions work really well, just rinse with warm water so you don't get white spots.

I wonder what would happen if you poured diluted / old TSP on the garden, might help it grow?

 

[hotbeer]

I think I flubbed my question. Regular TSP is not available. Red Devil TSP/90 is not available. All that was available was TSP-PF - that's what I used. Doesn't really matter anyway, I mixed it up and it seems to work great. Carry on!

Lots of stuff works. For the most part, as long as it looks clean it is clean.

I don't use real TSP anymore. It etched the windows in my home once when I didn't get a chance to rinse it off quick enough. Maybe that too is one of many reasons why the other stuff is found more easily.

 

[mac_1103]

TSP-90 and TSP-PF are both phosphate-free substitutes for trisodium phosphate. I can get the real thing and both substitutes in my area between Lowe's, Home Depot and Ace Hardware, but obviously availability is going to vary in different locales. TSP-90 and TSP-PF have an active ingredient in common (sodium metasilicate). The safety data sheet for TSP-PF also lists sodium sesquicarbonate and EDTA. I've used both to prepare surfaces for painting and they both work. I've never made my own PBW so I can't comment on whether one is better than the other for that.

 

[passedpawn]

BTW, TSP is great for removing oil stains on your driveway. Mix it up in a bucket, pour it on the stain and let it sit a while. Turns the oil to soap. Rinse off with hose.

 

[mac_1103]

Turns the oil to soap.

Yeah, saponify those esters baby!

 

[DuncB]

TSP-PF have an active ingredient in common (sodium metasilicate). The safety data sheet for TSP-PF also lists sodium sesquicarbonate and EDTA. I think these are all in PBW?
No wonder it works well.