Tried & True Extract Recipe vs. BeerSmith Suggestions

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asg816

PsychedBrewer
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Hello,

I recently did my first solo homebrew - my second ever - with a recipe I found online and tweaked to my liking. It's wrapping up it's second week of bottle conditioning and I'm getting ready to put in the chiller: if it tastes as good as it did after one week this is gonna be an awesome beer! Anyway, I'm "developing" my next recipe utilizing the same general outline as the first, just with some mods that I thought might improve the overall flavor. Initially, I was just going to follow the exact same procedures I did for the first one; the focus being on getting comfier with the process and improving the overall beer. However, I was recently encouraged to check out BeerSmith, and I'm so glad I did, because it's super fun to play with and seems to be worth it's weight in gold for someone who's quickly becoming obsessed with the ins-and-outs of homebrewing (a hobby I've been exploring for a while before actually taking the dive).

That being said, the recipe has me steeping my grains for 30 minutes (@155F) in 3 gallons of water before transitioning straight into the boil, and later, topping it off in the fermenter with 2-2.5 gal of chilled water. BeerSmith agrees with the temp and time, but it's recommending I steep in 1.25 gal., then, add 2.56 gal. to arrive at an est. pre-boil volume of 4.28 gal (including the vol of fermentables) and later topping off in two gallons of chilled water. I've poured over forums and the brew bible ("How to Brew") and I just can't seem to figure out why BeerSmith - in all it's infinite wisdom - is suggesting I use this method vs. the original recipe's (developed by an actual human and master brewer). I know people have come across similar issues using brew software, but I'm curious, has anyone has ever tried both (i.e. the recipe's guidelines and those suggested by something like BeerSmith) and experimented with the results? If so, I'd love to hear how it turned out for you and which route, if any, you'd suggest sticking with. Does anybody feel like this is ultimately a non-issue and I should do whichever feels right (i.e. the original recipe b/c BeerSmith's suggestion simply adds more steps to an otherwise straightforward, efficient homebrew) b/c the results will be virtually identical? The goal, obviously, is to make great beer though, and more importantly, to understand the "why" behind all these decision, so the extra step isn't exactly a hassle if it moves me closer toward those ends.

Any insight ya'll have and are willing to share would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much!
 
That being said, the recipe has me steeping my grains for 30 minutes (@155F) in 3 gallons of water before transitioning straight into the boil, and later, topping it off in the fermenter with 2-2.5 gal of chilled water. BeerSmith agrees with the temp and time, but it's recommending I steep in 1.25 gal., then, add 2.56 gal. to arrive at an est. pre-boil volume of 4.28 gal (including the vol of fermentables) and later topping off in two gallons of chilled water.

My guess is that Beersmith wants to keep the water to grain ratio low for the steep. Depending on the grains you're steeping and the Alkalinity of the water, you could end up with a high pH in the steep, which could lead to increased tannin extraction and/or darkening of the wort.

Edit: I'm not a Beersmith user, but I suppose another possibility is that the ratio it's recommending is the result of a user specified parameter. Just a guess there.
 
My guess is that Beersmith wants to keep the water to grain ratio low for the steep. Depending on the grains you're steeping and the Alkalinity of the water, you could end up with a high pH in the steep, which could lead to increased tannin extraction and/or darkening of the wort.

Edit: I'm not a Beersmith user, but I suppose another possibility is that the ratio it's recommending is the result of a user specified parameter. Just a guess there.

That def makes sense, VilkeMan, thanks! Using distilled water in this case, so I'm not sure alkalinity will be as big of a factor, but something I will absolutely explore.
 
Using distilled water in this case, so I'm not sure alkalinity will be as big of a factor, but something I will absolutely explore.

It won't be an issue with distilled water.
 
Have you set up your own equipment profile in the program? That might make a difference in the calculations it’s spitting out. You can tweak the program to match your setup.
 
BeerSmith does NOT WANT nor RECOMMEND anything. It is a program with a set of equations which are populated by the recipe and the equipment profile. It is up to the user to take the profile and adjust it to represent how they want to operate their process. Please, please, please take the time to modify the program profiles to represent how you want to run your process. Adjust it to get the program to duplicate your results. The program is just a set of equations and doesn't know anything about brewing.
 
Have you set up your own equipment profile in the program? That might make a difference in the calculations it’s spitting out. You can tweak the program to match your setup.
I haven’t, yet, no. Honestly, I’ve seen that option and figured it might help, but I haven’t figured out how to do that exactly. I’ll def explore that option a bit more. I have the equipment for a full boil (7.5 gal turkey boiler on propane, chiller, etc), but I’m assuming the calculations may be based on an indoor, stove top kit. 🤔
 
I haven’t, yet, no. Honestly, I’ve seen that option and figured it might help, but I haven’t figured out how to do that exactly. I’ll def explore that option a bit more. I have the equipment for a full boil (7.5 gal turkey boiler on propane, chiller, etc), but I’m assuming the calculations may be based on an indoor, stove top kit. 🤔
The instructions are just ONE set of guidelines. Recipes can be brewed any number of ways. Like @Oginme says above. The program will only give you information based on the parameters you have set/ entered. If you have the capability to do full volume boils and can cool it, I’d definitely recommend using that process. The processes are basically the same, the amount of water you use and when is what changes. Using the proper equipment profile is a major key to successfully using the program. I personally have 3 separate unique equipment profiles stored depending on how I intend to brew a particular batch.
 
Thoughts on "Tried & True Extract Recipe vs. BeerSmith Suggestions": if "tried & true" is working, why change?

Any insight ya'll have and are willing to share would be greatly appreciated.
If you decide to use software, say "I brew with XYZZY recipe software and I never looked back". Comparing results of brewing software packages is best left to software testers, "quality control / assurance" people, and magazine reviews.

If you want to learn more about the models and maths of brewing, are you willing to spend some money on some books? I have a couple I can suggest based on how much money you are willing to spend.

FWIW, I brew mostly small batches (both extract and all grain) using a spreadsheet I created.
 
Thoughts on "Tried & True Extract Recipe vs. BeerSmith Suggestions": if "tried & true" is working, why change?


If you decide to use software, say "I brew with XYZZY recipe software and I never looked back". Comparing results of brewing software packages is best left to software testers, "quality control / assurance" people, and magazine reviews.

If you want to learn more about the models and maths of brewing, are you willing to spend some money on some books? I have a couple I can suggest based on how much money you are willing to spend.

FWIW, I brew mostly small batches (both extract and all grain) using a spreadsheet I created.
Absolutely! Couldn’t agree more: I’ve bought “How to Brew,” as well as the elements series. HTB has been incredibly informative so far and I’m almost all the way through (I admit that, as a noob to home brewing, much of the lingo just doesn’t have the same meaning without the experience and - for me - tutelage, since I have one friend with experience home brewing the old school way [i.e. without software] but he hasn’t been active with it in years). I’ve also bought and read some of the elements series, which - The “Yeast” book not included - is super interesting, but seems to lack the functional applicability to home brewing so far. Whatever suggestions you have, I’d be happy to explore!
 
Whatever suggestions you have, I’d be happy to explore!

Two books to consider if you want to explore the models and maths behind home brewing:

The Brewers Companion (1993/1995, Mosher). The book predates the general use of computers in home brewing, so the book ends up being focused on ideas / models / calculations on how to brew without software. Available in the used book market, don't pay more than about $20 for it (Powell's Books often has it at a good price). Some of the ideas are also in Mosher's newer books (Radical Berwing, Mastering Homebrew).

A Handbook of Basic Brewing Calculations (2003, Holle). Some overlap with the calculations in books you have. The book is focused on calculations, with footnotes to science, so it may be easier to find what you are looking for here. It's a time/money trade-off that you will have to make.[/B][/B]
 
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