Sound is overrated. Just appreciate how NICE it looks! 
Tips for an old guy trying to learn guitar
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OP
OP
Sound is overrated. Just appreciate how NICE it looks!
Thanks for that. But do you think it could be from the lemon oil? I probably used too much. If that is the problem, I'm ok with it...should solve itself and lesson learned. If not, then I'm concerned...
GrogNerd
mean old man
I would suggest a pro setup regardless.
maybe new strings are contributing to muffled sound. different strings (Rush, Permanent Waves) might not sound as bright
it's also electric, isn't it? plug that sucker in
maybe new strings are contributing to muffled sound. different strings (Rush, Permanent Waves) might not sound as bright
it's also electric, isn't it? plug that sucker in
OP
OP
But that'll bump my investment up to $150!!
I forgot to even check the pickups last night when I got it home. But I want it to be more for acoustic use than plugged in. It's a small guitar, and I understand what impact that has on sound, but I have played this model before and was surprised by how rich the sound was for such a small guitar. I want that sound...and thought I had it when I tested it out.
EDIT: and I am such a ******* that I didn't think of having it set up until AFTER I put new strings on it. Oops.
estricklin
Well-Known Member
It's hard to judge how a guitar sounds when your buying one. For me they've always sounded better in the music store than they did when I got them home haha. Did it have heavier strings on it when you played it the first time? All acoustics sound better outdoors I think.
Pickups don't go bad often, but the batteries do go dead in them from time to time.
Pickups don't go bad often, but the batteries do go dead in them from time to time.
OP
OP
I also noticed something else but I don't think it is a sign of a problem. If I lay my Epi on its back, it lies flat. This guitar does not. It is rounded in the back and the top. It very much looks as if that is the design of the guitar, though. I just never thought about such things.
GrogNerd
mean old man
ask guy who you bought it from what strings he used, switch to those
can wait a while for setup, to test whether the oil is affecting the sound, plus you don't have to waste the strings you already put on
estricklin
Well-Known Member
It's called an arch top. It's just another type of construction. It does make a pretty big difference in the sound, I'm not saying a flat top is better, I'm just saying they sound different. I'm not an expert in this area at all but I can tell you a few things that I believe about arch tops:
1. They were used more in big bands, most likely because they were generally more available back then, and some say because they are a little less bassy it didn't drown out the acoustic bass player. No amps back then!
2. Jazz guitarists seem to still prefer them, although in the electric models with F holes usually.
3. For whatever reason the tops aren't usually made of spruce as you would expect, even on high end models, the wood is more likely to be maple, mahogany, and cheaper models maybe ash or cedar... not sure about that. i really can't say which ones sound better, I don't have a clue.
4. There's really no right or wrong, it's personal preference arch top vs. flat top. As you go along, your going to get a much clearer idea of what you like and don't like in a guitar. I know I'm damn glad I didn't buy the first expensive guitar I wanted, as I didn't have the money at the time. What I want changed quite a bit between then and the time I made that purchase.
I think it's kind of cool you got an arch top, they're different, fun. I've considered picking up an older one before if I ever find a good deal on one.
paperairplane
Well-Known Member
What strings did you put on it? I have a Washburn that I switched to silk / steel to make it easier to fret, but that lower tension took a lot of volume and brightness out of the guitar. I don't have the fingers yet for 80/20's, but that is what sounds best on mine. I'm going to brass / phosphorous as a transition.
OP
OP
BINGO! I have a friend who is a guitar god, been playing since he was 7 years old, and plays lead in a blues band that gigs every week. He told me that the price on this guitar was nice, but why not just play the Epi I have until I get good and then spend real money and get something I really want. I told him I don't think I can tell what I really want because I've only ever owned one guitar. I spent $125 to broaden my horizons...and believe I could sell it at a profit if I decide I don't want it.
GrogNerd
mean old man
wow - a favorite guitar player from a favorite band playing & singing a favorite song by a different favorite band with that band's drummer
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BrewinBromanite
Well-Known Member
I'll second this. You can strum some basic chords for the blues rhythm (or even mimic the bass line), and your buddy can go off on solo stuff. Used to do this with my roommate in college. He was much more advanced than myself. I self-taught on electric bass, and acoustic since middle school (and violin for 6 years - so I had some formal training with string instruments). He taught me my first chords (and they seemed impossible at first, let alone transitioning between hem without taking 30 seconds to reposition). I'd strum some very basic bar chords, while he solo'd. Pretty fun when you're still learning, just to play along with something that sounds good.
Hotel California can be a fun one as well. If you get the hang of the basic strumming chords and just keep repeating it, he can play all sorts of variations and solo off of it. I like to switch up between the standard radio version, the Eagle's live / Spanish sounding version (the intro is fun to learn), and the Gipsy Kings version for a change of pace.
estricklin
Well-Known Member
It's really good advice, but I sure wasn't going to give you any that I wouldn't have took myself. You really can't go wrong buying cheaper guitars, especially good used ones. What I strongly DON'T recommend is, buying mid price guitars, unless you can get them at very attractive prices. They usually have a solid top, but the rest of the body is not. As a result, they sound only marginally better than less inexpensive guitars. You would think the best deals on guitars WOULD be in the 500-1000 dollars range, but it's quite the opposite. Many of those guitars I couldn't tell the difference in them vs. a $200 one, blind folded or not. So long story short, if I were ready to go for a really nice one, and I didn't have the money for a higher end, I would buy a used mid range for the mid-long term, or better yet save my money and play the inexpensive one.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
I doubt the fret oil would muffle the sound, but I'm not sure. It's supposed to be wiped off after it's applied, so the only bit left would be very little.
Could be the strings, too. I used to play a Fender acoustic and the absolute best strings for that guitar were D'Addarios. Hands down, the absolute best. I upgraded my guitar and got a Yamaha and tried the D'Addarios and they sounded pretty bad, especially compared to how the Yamaha used to sound. So I tried Martin strings and then the guitar sang like a bird again.
Talking about figuring out the guitar you want: I played a $129 Fender acoustic for about 12 months, but I couldn't advance my playing. My dad (experienced player) said he thought the guitar was limiting my ability to grow, which was possible. I had it set-up professionally, and it definitely made it easier to play but I was still hung up on bar chords. Yet, when I'd try different guitars I could play things I couldn't play on my Fender.
So, I had scouted out this Yamaha for about a year when I finally saved up the money to buy one. Problem was, they were phased out and replaced with a new model, which was too expensive for me. I checked online regular and found the one I wanted in California, through GC. It just happened to be severely on sale, so I pulled the trigger and bought it.
Point being: I knew the guitar I wanted for over a year, but along the way I let my playing improve and evolve. I also tried out A LOT of different guitars (living 3 miles from Chicago Music Exchange can be helpful and dangerous - if any of you ever get to Chicago, you have got to check it out) and figured out that I loved the Yamaha. So eventually I pulled the trigger on it, but only after I was absolutely positive it was the guitar for me. And it hasn't disappointed.
Could be the strings, too. I used to play a Fender acoustic and the absolute best strings for that guitar were D'Addarios. Hands down, the absolute best. I upgraded my guitar and got a Yamaha and tried the D'Addarios and they sounded pretty bad, especially compared to how the Yamaha used to sound. So I tried Martin strings and then the guitar sang like a bird again.
Talking about figuring out the guitar you want: I played a $129 Fender acoustic for about 12 months, but I couldn't advance my playing. My dad (experienced player) said he thought the guitar was limiting my ability to grow, which was possible. I had it set-up professionally, and it definitely made it easier to play but I was still hung up on bar chords. Yet, when I'd try different guitars I could play things I couldn't play on my Fender.
So, I had scouted out this Yamaha for about a year when I finally saved up the money to buy one. Problem was, they were phased out and replaced with a new model, which was too expensive for me. I checked online regular and found the one I wanted in California, through GC. It just happened to be severely on sale, so I pulled the trigger and bought it.
Point being: I knew the guitar I wanted for over a year, but along the way I let my playing improve and evolve. I also tried out A LOT of different guitars (living 3 miles from Chicago Music Exchange can be helpful and dangerous - if any of you ever get to Chicago, you have got to check it out) and figured out that I loved the Yamaha. So eventually I pulled the trigger on it, but only after I was absolutely positive it was the guitar for me. And it hasn't disappointed.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Funny thing about the Yamaha I got: I waited to buy the guitar for a while, and then I had a hard time finding one anywhere. About 4 months after I bought mine, my dad found a used one at his Guitar Center and picked it up for about $100 less than I paid.
So now whenever we play together, we are playing the same guitar - his is just slightly darker because it's a little older.
So now whenever we play together, we are playing the same guitar - his is just slightly darker because it's a little older.
I can't see how it would. Beyond re-finishing, or something coming apart, there shouldn't be anything to change the sound.
Of course, your environment has a LOT to do with how sound travels and is perceived.
And I second the opinion that you should have the guitar set up professionally. Yes, it costs money. And yes it should make almost any guitar play easier and sound better (even if it's just because it's easier to play.)
Then again, practicing on a guitar with high action will strengthen your fingers more.
OP
OP
Guess I need to plug this thing when I get home. I did some online reading over lunch and the consensus seems to be that this guitar is mediocre unplugged but very good amplified.
OP
OP
Well, I'm certain that my little Epi is the superior instrument. Oh well.
TheFlatLander
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I was taught the other way. Low to high. Eat A Darn Good Breakfast Everyday
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Eddie Ate Dynamite, Good Bye Eddie.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
What epi do you have? I have a Special II.
OP
OP
Cheap thin bodied acoustic electric. PR-4E.
Thought the Washburn would be a slight upgrade. I was wrong.
nutty_gnome
Well-Known Member
Every Apple Does Go Bad Eventually
OP
OP
I'm not totally giving up on it quite yet. Buddy who is really into guitars said to (1) let it sit in the house for a few days and (2) play the new strings every day for a few days before making an assessment. He says if it was stored somewhere with drastically different humidity than my house, it could certainly make it sound like this...especially with new strings on it.
We'll see.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Talking about getting new guitars has be thinking about this one I have had my eyes on since October. I happened to look, and they still have it, and it's still $2,400.
If only I was single and had a spare $2,400....
If only I was single and had a spare $2,400....
GrogNerd
mean old man
I've probably mentioned this before, but it's something I learned selling guitars at MARS: you may not notice the difference between the $200 guitar and the $1000 guitar NOW, but wait 20 years and then tell me there's not a difference
your $200 guitar will last you 10 years TOPS, if you treat it right. your $1000 guitar will last you at least 5 times that with just average care & your grandkids will be playing it
Willie Nelson got his Martin N-20 in 1969 & paid $750 for it. he's still playing that beat up old thing nearly 50 years later
spend $2400 to $3000 on a guitar and your grandkids' grandkids will play it.
your $200 guitar will last you 10 years TOPS, if you treat it right. your $1000 guitar will last you at least 5 times that with just average care & your grandkids will be playing it
Willie Nelson got his Martin N-20 in 1969 & paid $750 for it. he's still playing that beat up old thing nearly 50 years later
spend $2400 to $3000 on a guitar and your grandkids' grandkids will play it.
estricklin
Well-Known Member
Talking about getting new guitars has be thinking about this one I have had my eyes on since October. I happened to look, and they still have it, and it's still $2,400.
If only I was single and had a spare $2,400....
Is it a J-45?
I remember the days of drooling over guitars. Now that I have my Gibson I have "the one". I never look at them anymore, well I do electrics some but never acoustics.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Yeah its a '69 J45. Every time I go to that store I manage to find it and play it.
It seems like a sign from above. The wife isn't a believer though. I'm fortunate I bought my Over/Under before I got married
It seems like a sign from above. The wife isn't a believer though. I'm fortunate I bought my Over/Under before I got married
nutty_gnome
Well-Known Member
I wasn't commenting on the guitar. Its an acronym for the 6 string tuning. Check the cap letters. Good luck with your guitar!
applescrap
Be the ball!
Whoever told you lemon oil was right. But I also do like the spray cleaners that come in kits at places like Guitar center. I get a kick out of this, were you expecting an antique solid wood martin? The fact that you could tell that that guitar sounded like meh tells me there's much potential in you. Guitars are basically made from laminate to solid top to solid back and sides. The more solid the better sounding. Last I checked a new solid guitar was very expensive.
No you didn't make the guitar sound bad with what you did, it sounds average because of the way it was constructed see solid vs. Laminate. Good learning instrument including stringing. I only change one string at a time because the guitar is under heavy tension so you don't want to release all that tension at once and generally speaking never leave guitar unstrung. I have a guitar that has a broken string for a long time and I'm worried about it.
Its a fine beginner guitar enjoy it and learn to sing and do my drill.
applescrap
Be the ball!
applescrap
Be the ball!
Ps... thank you you've almost inspired me to grab an instrument
applescrap
Be the ball!
Your little Epiphone is likely superior can't remember what you have. I'm not a fan of that the phones either sorry. But as an investment it was a good deal sell it and make some money! Sorry if I come off brash I could bs if you like. Don't get me wrong I can make a $10 instrument sound good and have. Its not just sound its playability. slash and all those guys play Les Pauls not just cuz they sound good but cuz they're easy to play for and are superior instruments. I can make a $10 guitar sound good but i couldnt play Stairway to Heaven perfectly start to finish on it. Are you catching my drift
applescrap
Be the ball!
I own six or seven guitars nothing wrong with keeping it
applescrap
Be the ball!
True dat
applescrap
Be the ball!
Your wife is right dude, I've played that guitar a lot my father in law has one. Calls it a piece of s*** compared to his Martins, I never cared for the way it sounded or played but YMMV as they say. You could do way better man. I did however feel that way about a solid body guild man that guitar could play. My best instruments is a Gibson es335. Wanted to be the jazz king, traded my 77 tele for it.
applescrap
Be the ball!
Ok a quick lessin on strings . The thicker the better the sound the thinner the easier to play. Stevie played the thickest strings you could imagine we are not Stevie.
GrogNerd
mean old man
Billy Gibbons' strings are the lightest I've ever heard of: 7-9-11-20-30-38
SEVEN! I'd pop that thing so fast, I wouldn't have time to think of a joke about how fast it would be
SEVEN! I'd pop that thing so fast, I wouldn't have time to think of a joke about how fast it would be
OP
OP
Epi is also a laminate, similar body size, and was about $150 new!
I didn't expect either of these guitars to sound great. But I expected the Washburn to sound better than the epi by a long shot. I played a friend's Washburn of similar quality a few weeks ago and it sounded much better than the Epi. As a follow up, I picked it up last night and messed around for about an hour. It is beginning to sound much better. I think the new strings really made it sound dull. Either that, or I am just getting used to its sound.
It's not the guitar, it's the player...
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwhvFLHIlBs[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwhvFLHIlBs[/ame]
