Thinking about going BIAB. Anyone one with regrets? Tips?

[GoeHaarden]

Been brewing all-grain for about 5 years now and I'm at the point where I'd like to simplify my brewday without sacrificing quality. BIAB seems like the logical choice, but I've always been a little skeptical of the process.

I only do 5.5 gallon batches, and I don't foresee myself ever wanting to do 10 gallon batches. I would still like to do some 1.100 beers every once in a while so I was thinking of buying a 15 gallon spikes kettle and a mesh basket from arborfab. Direct fire with propane to hit strike temp and boil, but use my 2000w/110v RIMS to maintain mash. Yeah, I know I've read that recirc/RIMS with BIAB is unnecessary but since I have it I figured why not use it...

Just curious if anyone regrets going BIAB? Or if anyone has any tips or hindsight with their setup? Or any suggestions to my above proposed setup?

 

[jathon0815]

I only brew 5-6 gallon batches and my 15 gallon keggle was the best upgrade choice I made. Plenty of room for the larger grain bills. I use a Blichman burner and it’s great too. I think you’re on the right track with where you’re going for BIAB.

 

[stosh]

I read up on all grain and got to the point where I was ready to take the plunge. The equipment cost kept me from doing so. All the while I was seeing this BIAB thing and at that time I thought it was ridiculous. I'm a fundamentalist in some ways and felt if I was going to brew that it would have to be all grain or nothing - big mistake.

Shortly thereafter, I started coming across quality used equipment and I ended up amassing the gear I needed to do all grain for pennies on the dollar. One of the batches of gear came with a BIAB bag and I started reading up on that. It clicked with me and I've been brewing BIAB since then with no regrets. I have the gear to do all grain and I have plans to but to me BIAB seems easier. Quicker cleanup and easier mashing and sparging if you decide to do that (of course I have nothing to compare that to)

I have done a number of 1.100+ beers with ease. I'd make sure to get a Wilser bag (or two) and pulley from his site. Sells them as a package deal. Stainless basket would work too. I brew between 2.5 gallon test batches up to 6 gallons with no problem. Man it's great and I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Out of curiosity, what part of the process are you skeptical about?

 

[RM-MN]

One of the big advantages of BIAB is the ability to use grains that have been milled really fine which then makes the mash efficiency go way up. When you recirculate with your RIMS system you will plug up the bag or mesh basket if you mill so finely so you are back to using the same milling as with your conventional mash tun and have to have the hour long mash period to try to get most of the starches converted.

Try one batch with finely milled grains and don't worry about the temperature falling a bit. Your conversion will be done much quicker than you expect and the temperature loss will be of no concern.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Been brewing all-grain for about 5 years now and I'm at the point where I'd like to simplify my brewday without sacrificing quality. BIAB seems like the logical choice, but I've always been a little skeptical of the process.

I only do 5.5 gallon batches, and I don't foresee myself ever wanting to do 10 gallon batches. I would still like to do some 1.100 beers every once in a while so I was thinking of buying a 15 gallon spikes kettle and a mesh basket from arborfab. Direct fire with propane to hit strike temp and boil, but use my 2000w/110v RIMS to maintain mash. Yeah, I know I've read that recirc/RIMS with BIAB is unnecessary but since I have it I figured why not use it...

Just curious if anyone regrets going BIAB? Or if anyone has any tips or hindsight with their setup? Or any suggestions to my above proposed setup?

Like you, I was also skeptical about BIAB before trying it. The difference is simply w/ BIAB you are removing the grain from wort, rather than wort from grain.

My advice is to keep BIAB simple w/ just a kettle, bag and heat source. Since you are already AG brewing, all you need is a bag!

Rather than plan out a new system w/ spike kettle w/ tri-clamps, hoses and your rims system, get a bag and try a batch w/ basic methods. Lots of folks have gone fancy automated BIAB, but my preference and opinion is that the main benefit of BIAB is the simplicity. I highly doubt the beer made w/ your RIMS system would be much if any different than simply maintaining mash temps with a blanket for insulation, after learning a little technique.

 

[myndflyte]

I had a traditional mash tun before switching to BIAB. I never felt like my system worked as well as it could and trying to juggle heating more water and everything just ruined my motivation to brew.

I now BIAB in the same cooler mash tun and I love brewing again. It's a simple process of just using all the water at once and I've been able to really dial in my system to get the wort that I need. A double crush has made my efficiency sky rocket and the overall brew day is just so much more enjoyable.

So I have no regrets switching to BIAB.

 

[LittleRiver]

...thinking of buying a 15 gallon spikes kettle and a mesh basket from arborfab...

I've been happy with my 15gal kettle for 5gal batches. There's plenty of room for big beers or larger batches, and I've never had a boilover. My Wilser bag works so well and is so easy to clean I've never been tempted to go with a mesh basket.

...I'd like to simplify my brewday...use my 2000w/110v RIMS to maintain mash...

Try it without the RIMS. You may find you like the simplicity of it, I'm sure you'll like not having to clean that gear. Grind your grains very fine (I use a .025" mill gap), and conversion will be complete long before temperature loss is an issue. But it's not an issue anyway, in all but the dead of winter I maintain mash temp within a degree or two just using an old sleeping bag over the kettle.

...Just curious if anyone regrets going BIAB? Or if anyone has any tips or hindsight with their setup? Or any suggestions to my above proposed setup?

No regrets at all going BIAB. I love the elegant simplicity of it. The beers are great, and brew days are very enjoyable.

My only other suggestion is that you rig an overhead hoist point if you can. Hoist the bag, tie it off, and let gravity drain it during the boil. There's no need to squeeze it that way.

 

[deadwolfbones]

No regrets.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

NO REGERTS

 

[rhys333]

So many regrets.

Just kidding. NO regrets.

 

[NewJersey]

are all of you no regrets guys electric? if so, what's your setup?

 

[GoeHaarden]

Thanks to everyone who has replied. I appreciate the advice and it got my wheels turning. I guess it takes putting ideas on paper (typing on the forum in this case) to realize what exactly I want to accomplish and how to go about it...

Out of curiosity, what part of the process are you skeptical about?

Lol. Just seems too good to be true. Honestly, now that I actually have to think about a response to your question I can't come up with one. I used to think there would be too much grain particles in the boil, but with my limited brewing wisdom I have realized to not sweat the small things in brewing.

When you recirculate with your RIMS system you will plug up the bag or mesh basket if you mill so finely so you are back to using the same milling as with your conventional mash tun

This makes a lot of sense, and I never really thought about that. I guess the main reason I like the RIMS is it gives me the ability to stir the mash frequently without losing temp to increase conversion. However, if I don't have to stir the mash with finely milled grain to get the same/or better conversion then it makes more sense to not use it.

all you need is a bag! .... I highly doubt the beer made w/ your RIMS system would be much if any different than simply maintaining mash temps with a blanket for insulation, after learning a little technique.

Truth be told, I already have one of your bags and I love it. I use it on top of my crappy false bottom and I've yet to have a stuck mash/grain in wort when using it. Top notch quality sir. Thank you! I'm not too worried about the temp falling a couple degrees, because I can't say I've ever noticed a difference anyways. Lately, I have been doing infusion mashes/batch sparging in my old cooler for simplicity sake and haven't cared about 1-2 degree drop.

I now BIAB in the same cooler mash tun

So, you just do a full volume mash in the cooler and let it drain into the boil kettle? Interesting. Can I ask why you don't just use one vessel? For the thermal properties of the cooler?

My only other suggestion is that you rig an overhead hoist point if you can. Hoist the bag, tie it off, and let gravity drain it during the boil. There's no need to squeeze it that way.

I brew at the edge of my garage, and I've always thought about how to hoist the bag without using the ceiling. I think I'm going to use the ladder technique for my first go at this. Unless there are other elegant solutions out there that I'm unaware of?

*************

Again, thanks to everyone who responded and I think I'm going to try a very simplistic approach. Also, thanks for knocking my off the "buy new equipment" mentality I had originally. I'm just going to use my 10 gallon kettle, bag, burner, and ladder and call it a day.

Does anyone get good conversion (like 80's and up) with just a double crush? My old cereal killer broke a while back and I gave it away. Therefore, I've just been using double crush from my LHBS. I have thought about the monster mill mm3, but not sure if it's overkill?

 

[myndflyte]

So, you just do a full volume mash in the cooler and let it drain into the boil kettle? Interesting. Can I ask why you don't just use one vessel? For the thermal properties of the cooler?

Yeah the bag is made for the 10 gallon cooler so I just put it in there and mash with the full volume. I lift the bag out, squeeze, and drain to my boil kettle. The reason why is because my boil kettle is too small to mash it. It says it's a 9 gallon but I bet it really only holds 8.5. So for that reason, plus I don't have to mess with covering it with blankets or anything.

 

[rhys333]

are all of you no regrets guys electric? if so, what's your setup?

Gas setup. I mash indoors in a 5 gallon pot, and then do a dunk sparge outside in the 10 gallon pot. It allows maximum temp control, saves on gas, and saves me time.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

No regrets. My setup is propane, using an Anvil burner. On a low setting, the burner is gentle enough to direct-fire half way through to warm up the mash a couple of degrees. I mash low though, and like my beers on the dry side of things.

Also, you can do 10-12g net batches in a 15.5g keggle using BIAB and only a single heat source. I will mash to capacity, run off the sweet wort into home depot buckets, then cold-water batch sparge to about 14-15g of wort, then top up during the course of the boil to wind up with 12g net. Fermcap S helps.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

No regrets. My setup is propane, using an Anvil burner. On a low setting, the burner is gentle enough to direct-fire half way through to warm up the mash a couple of degrees. I mash low though, and like my beers on the dry side of things.

Also, you can do 10-12g net batches in a 15.5g keggle using BIAB and only a single heat source. I will mash to capacity, run off the sweet wort into home depot buckets, then cold-water batch sparge to about 14-15g of wort, then top up during the course of the boil to wind up with 12g net. Fermcap S helps.

In hindsight, I probably would have bought a grainfather. Also, upgraded to a keezer right off the bat. And not wasted any money on a HLT and cooler mash tun. Also, I would have bought a 1/2" 50' stainless immersion chiller instead of screwing around with DIY.

 

[ch19]

No regrets here. I run a DIY 2.4kW 240V system with a 15G kettle. Like Wilser said, don’t worry about RIMS for mash temperature, insulate and call it good. Between a fine crush and water chemistry, I regularly hit 80-85% mash efficiency with full volume/no-sparge mashes.

 

[GoeHaarden]

The reason why is because my boil kettle is too small to mash it.

Gotcha. I think I should be able to fairly big beers with my 10 gallon. Plus, I guess with BIAB there is literally no deadspace!?

Gas setup. I mash indoors in a 5 gallon pot, and then do a dunk sparge outside in the 10 gallon pot.

What and how do you "dunk sparge"? Do you simply just dunk your bag in more hot water, and then add your original wort to that? This seems like a lot of pot jockeying to me...

In hindsight, I probably would have bought a grainfather. Also, upgraded to a keezer right off the bat. And not wasted any money on a HLT and cooler mash tun. Also, I would have bought a 1/2" 50' stainless immersion chiller instead of screwing around with DIY

Lol. yeah me too. Something like the robobrew or similar. Same with the chiller, I have a copper IC and counterflow to prechill. I guess I could sell off some stuff.

 

[ong]

are all of you no regrets guys electric? if so, what's your setup?

No, I just BIAB on a a propane burner or even on the kitchen stove (my stove can handle vigorous boils on 5 gallon batches). I was originally doing BIAB until I could step up to a “real” three vessel system, but I haven’t found a single reason to... I can do triple decoctions and super-high gravity batches with my current setup, and it’s trivial to clean. Why bother with anything else?

 

[GoeHaarden]

No regrets here. I run a DIY 2.4kW 240V system with a 15G kettle. Like Wilser said, don’t worry about RIMS for mash temperature, insulate and call it good. Between a fine crush and water chemistry, I regularly hit 80-85% mash efficiency with full volume/no-sparge mashes.

Trying to figure out if double crush will be enough, or if I need to invest in a new mill?

 

[kh54s10]

I haven't gone totally to BIAB. I have only done 3 gallon batches. I am not set up for BIAB so it is something that I don't really like to do. I have also found very little time savings. And clean up is for me no easier. In fact rinsing out my mash tun is far quicker and easier than cleaning a bag. Just dump it then hose it out. 5 minutes at most.

That said, I would be interested in a good EBIAB set up.

Suggestions. Have a hoist. Your 1.100 batch of spent grains is going to be quiet heavy. Make sure when hoisting the wort drips into the pot and not outside.

 

[rhys333]

What and how do you "dunk sparge"? Do you simply just dunk your bag in more hot water, and then add your original wort to that? This seems like a lot of pot jockeying to me...

I use a Wilserbrewer bag. I mash in ~3 gallons for 60 or so minutes, then transfer the bag to the 10 gallon BK with ~3 gallons sparge water at 170F. I stir, lid it and leave for 5-10 minutes while I get the first runnings heating on the stove indoors. Then I pull the bag from the BK and hang it to drain, fire up the BK burner, and combine both worts when they get close to boil temp. During this whole wort processing phase, I'm pretty much going steadily from one task to the next, which sets the pace. It really does speed things up for me and saves on propane. I also like how it allows me maximum control over conversion temperature and attenuation.

 

[balrog]

"use the ladder technique for my first go at this. Unless there are other elegant solutions out there that I'm unaware of?"

Nothing more elegant, or simple. I use 10g pot, make 5g batches (but no RIS so grain bills typ<12lbs) and it's just simple. Corona mill it to dust, WilserBrewerBag, ladder, garage, propane. I do wrap two layers Reflectrix during mash, I do lose 3deg/hr, I do stir thoroughly half way. I hang without squeezing during 10-12m heat to boil and add drips. Then off to the compost pile or save some to make spent-grain-pretzels. It's just super simple.

 

[LittleRiver]

... I think I'm going to try a very simplistic approach. Also, thanks for knocking my off the "buy new equipment" mentality I had originally...

You're on the right track.

I did my first couple of batches with a ladder, then i rigged a hoist point from a wall beside my shop dock door.

Regarding double milling or getting a new mill, definitely go for the new mill. Crush is really important, you'll be glad you can control it. I'm using the Kegco 3 roller and don't have any complaints. Lots of folks on here use the Cereal Killer and love it, it is a great value.

 

[shetc]

Yuge regrets [emoji6]

 

[RM-MN]

Trying to figure out if double crush will be enough, or if I need to invest in a new mill?

Lots of people seem to get by with just a double crush but they do lose some brewhouse efficiency and need a longer mash to get the best conversion. Invest in a new mill. I use one of these and it won't take long to pay off either. https://www.walmart.com/ip/500-Home...1mVma5MI6ZwYOFzDdwPhDgVglalWzWxAaAgRVEALw_wcB

 

[shetc]

And now for a tip: https://www.biabrewer.info/index.php

 

[ch19]

Trying to figure out if double crush will be enough, or if I need to invest in a new mill?

I double crush but tighten the gap between passes on my cheap & cheerful, drill driven 2 roller mill. I only started doing this a couple of brews ago, but I’ve found that I can mill faster and finer with two passes instead of a single pass at a tighter setting.

I hit 90% mash efficiency on the Pilsner I brewed this morning, so I’m sticking with it!

 

[user 30639]

No regrets here. I have a 15 gallon keggle and a bayou classic burner. I did extract for years due to living in an apartment and space limitations. Once I bought a house a few years ago I decided to switch to all-grain, but didn't want to spend the money on a ton of equipment. I bought the keggle from a guy in my brew club and got the burner from an Academy Sports that was going out of business. Maybe I'll upgrade to an EBIAB all-in-one system or buy a Blichmann burner so I can put the leg extensions on it and have it off the ground. But for now, my setup works great and the price was right.

 

[teesherv]

If you get a chance, beg or borrow some equipment to try BIAB first. I found I actually prefer a hybrid approach: I use a bag in my cooler, hoist it like BIAB, and batch sparge. One kettle, one cooler, and a bucket to hold first runnings. No new equipment needed. Wish I knew that before I bought BIAB equipment (kettle with mesh bucket, insulation nightmares).

 

[GnenieGone]

Been brewing all-grain for about 5 years now and I'm at the point where I'd like to simplify my brewday without sacrificing quality. BIAB seems like the logical choice, but I've always been a little skeptical of the process.

I only do 5.5 gallon batches, and I don't foresee myself ever wanting to do 10 gallon batches. I would still like to do some 1.100 beers every once in a while so I was thinking of buying a 15 gallon spikes kettle and a mesh basket from arborfab. Direct fire with propane to hit strike temp and boil, but use my 2000w/110v RIMS to maintain mash. Yeah, I know I've read that recirc/RIMS with BIAB is unnecessary but since I have it I figured why not use it...

Just curious if anyone regrets going BIAB? Or if anyone has any tips or hindsight with their setup? Or any suggestions to my above proposed setup?

I switched from 5.5gal AG to 3.5gal biab/PMs in 2018. All I can say is the quality took a noticeable dropped. Can't really explain it. Not off flavors wise, just taste wise. I'm actully going back to AG brewing because of this. Just seems there's more control with AG. Yes it's a longer day, but I've decided it's worth it in the end. That's just me, give it a go and see how it works. A 2hr brew day is nice...

I had a basic 10g Homer mash run conversion and 10g aluminum boil kettle. My eff was never over the top but nothing $2 more of grain cant fix.

 

[BrewinBromanite]

Been BIAB’ng ever since going AG several years back. Started with a similar hybrid approach. 5 gal round cooler and just used the cheap HD/Lowe’s 5 g paint strainer bags, that fit just barely. 60 min mash, pulled bag and placed in a 2nd cooler or pot for 10 min batch/dunk sparge, then combined volumes into the kettle for boil. Works just fine.

More recently decided in effort to simplify the process and save steps and lifting, to start doing full-volume mashes right in the 10.5 gal bayou classic kettle, and picked up some custom fitted wilserbrewer bags (highly recommended). Go straight from mash already in the pot (insulted with a makeshift reflectix jacket - not as good as an insulated cooler, but only lose a few degrees over the 60 min mash), pull the bag and let it drain on the side in a spare stock pot that has a strainer basket, and starting heating for boil immediately. Then add the small amount that drains after 10 mins or so and proceed as usual.

Minimal lifting, no risk of stuck sparges. Nothing fancy and great results. Would be hard-pressed to go back to the 5 gal cooler and batch sparing, simply because I no longer see a need to do the batch/dunk sparge step, but also nothing wrong with that. Use a bit of acidulated malt to assist with keeping ph in range (2-5% of grist typically is all that’s needed), is about the only change to recipe formulation.

 

[beernutz]

Trying to figure out if double crush will be enough, or if I need to invest in a new mill?

I have used a Schmedling non-adjustable Maltmill for almost 20 years. Several times a year though I brew using BIAB instead of my 3 vessel system when I brew away from my house including a brew day at my LHBS in a couple weeks. The Maltmill produces a very good crush, however, even running grain through it twice I don't get the efficiency numbers some BIABers report.

So if going from high 70% efficiencies to low/mid 80% efficiencies is that important then by all means spend the money for an adjustable mill or just do as I do and add whatever additional small amount of grain that's necessary to hit your target SG.

 

[BrewinBromanite]

I will say my efficiency has dropped slightly since switching to full volume BIAB from the 2-step BIAB process, by about 5%. Probably due to the fact I was squeezing (really pressing on) the bag more aggressively previously and the extra rinse/sparge. Nothing a little bit of extra base grain to the recipe cant fix to get to the same OG.

 

[GoeHaarden]

...and it won't take long to pay off either.

Lol. I assume you get a decent crush with that thing or you wouldn't be using it!?

If you get a chance, beg or borrow some equipment to try BIAB first. I found I actually prefer a hybrid approach: I use a bag in my cooler, hoist it like BIAB, and batch sparge. One kettle, one cooler, and a bucket to hold first runnings. No new equipment needed. Wish I knew that before I bought BIAB equipment (kettle with mesh bucket, insulation nightmares).

Yeah, the major appeal to me for BIAB is the one pot and simplifying brew day if the results end the same. I have a pretty nice Northface sleeping bag with a busted zipper I'm going to wrap the kettle in, and I'm not too concerned with a 3 degree drop...

I'm actully going back to AG brewing because of this.

Interesting. You're the first I've talked to who is switching back. Was this change in flavor consistent throughout all the brews you did this way? Was it like tannins? I hear those can be extracted more so with squeezing!?

More recently decided in effort to simplify the process and save steps and lifting, to start doing full-volume mashes right in the 10.5 gal bayou classic kettle, and picked up some custom fitted wilserbrewer bags (highly recommended).

How big of beers are you able to brew with your kettle?

So if going from high 70% efficiencies to low/mid 80% efficiencies is that important then by all means spend the money for an adjustable mill

Efficiency hasn't really been important to me, but consistency between brews is what I care about for recipe building and whatnot. However, I feel higher efficiency is more important with BIAB because your OG is more sensitive to ketttle size since you may not have the capacity to just add a few pounds to make any losses

 

[GoeHaarden]

What volume calculators is everyone using? What is the typical absorption rate if you just let the bag free drip?

 

[LittleRiver]

I switched from 5.5gal AG to 3.5gal biab/PMs in 2018. All I can say is the quality took a noticeable dropped. Can't really explain it. Not off flavors wise, just taste wise. ...

That's a comment I haven't seen before. Did you do any kind of comparison testing, to rule out your own confirmation bias?

I'm not saying you didn't notice a difference, you did. I'm wondering why you did. Was there something about your BIAB process that was off, or were you skeptical of BIAB, and that influenced your taste perception?

Lots of people are brewing very good beer with BIAB, and there are awards to prove it, so something seems amiss.

 

[LittleRiver]

What volume calculators is everyone using? What is the typical absorption rate if you just let the bag free drip?

I use the Priceless calculator. It actually gives more info than I need, but it's easy to pick out the bits I do need.

After letting the bag fully drain into the kettle during the boil (which will take 30-45 min), I've measured that only about 200-300ml is left in the grains. I'm happy to donate that amount of liquid to the deer when I dump the spent grain in the woods.

 

[balrog]

What volume calculators is everyone using? What is the typical absorption rate if you just let the bag free drip?

I only drip, no squeeze, and it only drips about 15min max. I used Priceless calc and BeerSmith. I personally use .077879 as the absorption value. That’s gallon per pound I think.

 

[GnenieGone]

[QUOTE="GoeHaarden, post: 8411378, member: 233727")]
Interesting. You're the first I've talked to who is switching back. Was this change in flavor consistent throughout all the brews you did this way? Was it like tannins? I hear those can be extracted more so with squeezing?[/QUOTE]

Hard to quantify. Could be I just didn't spend enough time with quantity and chemistry adjustments. I did do a LOT of experimentation in 2018 including no boil beers. But multiple belgiums, ipas, stouts, porters just were not one same level as my AGs. I'll probably continue BIAB/PMs along with AGs when I want assured quality. For example made a Hefe with all DME and room temp RO, boiled hops on the side for 20min and added w/strainer, came out decent. But my quads and RISs will be AG.