No Sparge vs BIAB on 3V HERMS

[ChaosB]

I've been conducting a no sparge mash on my 3V HERMS system but I'd like to increase my efficiency and stop using so much grain to allow for larger batches / more room in my MLT, save a few bucks, and avoid scooping out the grain for easier cleanup. I think using a bag would allow me to crush my grain a bit finer to get greater extraction and squeeze the bag to get more wort out. My last brew day, I missed my pre-boil volume by a whole gallon. I'm not sure if this was because of more grain absorption than previously or because it was my first winter brew in a very dry climate and I lost it to condensation on the outside of the mash kettle. I suspect a little of both.

What do y'all think? Should I expect a significant increase in conversion efficiency over standard crush no sparging or am I just missing the point of BIAB by keeping all the rest of the equipment.

I don't want to go full BIAB with just one kettle because I like using the whirlpool port on my boil kettle and recirculation port with sparge arm on the MLT to return from the HERMS coil, which was initially going to be my HLT / HERMS until I decided it was easier to heat the strike water in my boil kettle and underlet to the mash tun allowing for the HERMS to heat at the same time and not need replenishing after mashing in. Now I heat the "HLT" / HERMS kettle only for mash recirculation and then I heat my cleaning water in there as I boil wort. I guess most BIAB setups seem to have the recirc port on the lid. If I kept the bag open rather than tied up so I could still stir then it would be a bit in the way of my recirculation port. I supposed I could always just run a hose over the side.

I have the ability to fly sparge using the auto sparge but I have never done so. Should I just do that? Seems a bit more complicated (yes I see the irony in my complication of BIAB).

I acquired a BIAB false bottom from BrewHardware but I'm not certain it's entirely necessary seeing as I won't be heating the mash directly. I suppose it could still serve to keep the pickup tube clear but I feel like it's also going to cause me to lose space in the mash tun as no sparging had done previously, maybe I didn't need to get the 3.25 inch legs.

What are people doing about thermometer probes? Making a port under the false bottom? I've been curious about the type that are inserted into NPT valves. That would become necessary if I went the brew basket route rather than a bag but I'm not sure a basket would squeeze the same as a bag even with a press plate. I've also heard the steel mesh isn't as fine as a bag.

I don't want to mess with any pully setups. I'm leaning towards getting a large steamer basket and a wire shelf rack that I can place over the kettle and place the bag in there when it's time to drain it but not actually use the steamer basket inside the kettle during the mash.

 

[RM-MN]

I think using a bag would allow me to crush my grain a bit finer to get greater extraction and squeeze the bag to get more wort out.

Crush it as fine as you can. Your mash efficiency will go up and the time for conversion will go down. Squeeze or just hang the bag over the mash tun and let gravity do most of the squeezing for you. You won't need to use re-circulation to keep the mash temp because the conversion will happen so quickly that the temperature won't fall very much.

 

[ChaosB]

Crush it as fine as you can. Your mash efficiency will go up and the time for conversion will go down. Squeeze or just hang the bag over the mash tun and let gravity do most of the squeezing for you. You won't need to use re-circulation to keep the mash temp because the conversion will happen so quickly that the temperature won't fall very much.

Quicker than 60 minutes? I have typically been mashing longer than that anyway just to make sure the conversion is complete. I thought recirculation aided the conversion as well, not just for temperature maintenance though this is also my process for mashing out since I don't direct fire my mash tun. I rarely hit my mash temp when mashing in and extend my mash until I have reached my target temperature. I also lose a lot of heat in the winter making the recirculation necessary even over 60 mins. Hmmm.

 

[RM-MN]

Quicker than 60 minutes?

Far quicker than 60 minutes. You wouldn't believe how quickly so you'll need to try it yourself. Get a bottle of iodine and periodically take a sample to test for starch. Make sure to test mostly on the grain particles as that is where the residual starch will be.

The limit on conversion is mostly how long it takes to gelatinize the starch which is controlled by how large the grain particles are. A really poor crush may take over 2 hours to gelatinize and convert the starch. As the crush gets finer the gelatinization gets faster but there is a limit in a conventional mash tun as if you crush too fine you get a stuck mash. The bag in BIAB forms a huge filter area immediately so the stuck mash becomes a non-issue so crush the grain as finely as you can.