Star-san..... illegal in NY?

[JMD87]

So after reading so much hype about the quality of Star-san, I decided to go to my LHBS to pick some up for myself. I was informed that Star-san is illegal in NY because it can be used as a pesticide? Apparently LHBS was fined $5,000 for carrying it.

He then suggested one-step, which is what I currently use, and even claimed it was better than star-san.

Opinions?

 

[the_bird]

Huh? I buy it in Albany all the time.

 

[FlyingHorse]

yeah, sounds fishy. Pretty creative story to get you to buy what he has, rather than looking elsewhere, I guess.

Email or call Five Star Chemicals (the mfg) and ask them. I'm sure they'd know if one of there products was illegal somewhere.

Then take the response from Five Star back to your LHBS and ask him WTF?

 

[Revvy]

Or he's trying to unload his MASS Inventory of the horrible pseudo sanitizer One Step.

Better than Starsan...He said that??? Geez.

 

[EdWort]

So after reading so much hype about the quality of Star-san, I decided to go to my LHBS to pick some up for myself. I was informed that Star-san is illegal in NY because it can be used as a pesticide? Apparently LHBS was fined $5,000 for carrying it.

I call BS on that. How many things can be used as a pesticide, yet are not illegal?

Hmm, lets start with....

Water
Gasoline
Oil
Soap
Beer

 

[EdWort]

I just called 5 Star. They sell all over New York. You LHBS is full of BS.

 

[Yooper]

I have a HUGE bag of one-step that I bought a couple of years ago. I still use it occasionally, but much prefer star-san. One step has a much longer contact time, and is not actually approved as a "sanitizer". It works, but no way is it better than star-san.

 

[niquejim]

I call BS on that. How many things can be used as a pesticide, yet are not illegal?

Hmm, lets start with....

Water
Gasoline
Oil
Soap
Beer

Get beer off that list before they see it. If it becomes illegal to have it, then it will be illegal to make it. It's a downward spiral to us all living in caves again, don't you see that

 

[homebrewer_99]

(cough)...BULLSHIRT...(cough)...

 

[olllllo]

I have serious doubts if it could work as an effective pesticide.

 

[EdWort]

Actually, StarSan is the only sanitizer on the market that I feel comfortable pouring down the drain or in the yard.

 

[JMD87]

This is very interesting. The guy seemed like a genuine, straight forward kind've guy. Maybe he was mis-informed?

Here is their website for anyone who's interested:
http://www.arborwine.com/index.html

 

[EdWort]

I have serious doubts if it could work as an effective pesticide.

Drowning works pretty well.

 

[NWernBrewer]

Call him on his bull**** in front of his customers - a little public service so he can't take anybody else with his outright lying @ss.

I've had a few stores try to sell me on stuff that they happened to have in stock, but I have never been told such a yarn. Especially one that is so easily busted. Good news is that now you know to take anything he has to say with a grain of salt. IMO - find a better LHBS.

 

[olllllo]

I have an email into Jim @ Five Star, who has a login to this site.
We'll ge to the bottom of this soon.

BTW: Sanitizers that are bactricides probably have an EPA designation as a Pesticide for disposal purposes only. In other words disposing a 55g drum of it at full concentration might be an environmental no-no.

Anyone doing that?

 

[JMD87]

Wasn't there some EPA Initiative against pesticides to protect honey bee's?
Just throwing it out there...

 

[FlyingHorse]

Wasn't there some EPA Initiative against pesticides to protect honey bee's?

Maybe. But even so...it only applies to StarSan in NY? The guy is either misinformed, or yanking your chain.

 

[mmb]

Wasn't there some EPA Initiative against pesticides to protect honey bee's?
Just throwing it out there...

http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/about/intheworks/honeybee.htm

As far as I know, they are at the working group stage and building out a plan of action. No action has been taken yet to limit pesticide use that I know of.

You got your chain jerked around with so that you would buy what he had in stock.

 

[scinerd3000]

I just called 5 Star. They sell all over New York. You LHBS is full of BS.

ed we would be lost without you. Deffinitly sounds like a shoddy LHBS

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I just called 5 Star. They sell all over New York. You LHBS is full of BS.

Or full of One Step at the very least. Chances are, they wanted to carry Star San and can't satisfy some agreement/authorization.

 

[olllllo]

All:
I just got off the phone with Jim.
As you might surmise, they are eagar to respond.
They are taking the time to research the information provided to them and are doing all of the things you might expect from a world-class company.

We should expect to hear from then as soon as possible because they are interested in providing us with the facts.

So lets tone down the rhetoric a bit until then.

THX

 

[Jack]

I think one step works pretty darn well as a sanitizer even if it isn't technically one. Plenty of batches (10-15+) and no infected batches or bottles. At my LHBS, it also looks to be cheaper than starsan.

I've always told myself that I would "upgrade" once I had a sanitation issue, but I'm still in the clear.

 

[Jim Five Star]

Star San is an EPA registered Sanitizer. As such, Star San must be used specifically as delineated on the label, to sanitize equipment for Food and Beverage processing. Any other use of Star San is prohibited by law.

By the way, being an EPA registered Sanitizer means that Star San has passed all the rigorous testing and protocols required by the EPA to be certified to kill harmful bacteria in Food and Beverage processing. Cleaners, by definition, are not Sanitizers unless they are registered as such. The EPA's rigorous testing and registration process protects the public from unscrupulous claims and claimants.

If you have any other questions, comments or concerns about Five Star's line of superior products email me at [email protected].

Brew on.

 

[WillPall]

Thanks Jim, not only did you answer the questions, but you also gave us much more valuable information.

In my opinion, I bet your LHBS was just misinformed or mistaken. If he was just trying to sell all his OneStep, he should have known his story was easily disproven.

 

[Revvy]

Thanks Jim, not only did you answer the questions, but you also gave us much more valuable information.

In my opinion, I bet your LHBS was just misinformed or mistaken. If he was just trying to sell all his OneStep, he should have known his story was easily disproven.

Yeah...Trying to push his Onestep which is NOT an EPA registered Sanitizer....

I still can't figure out why after all these years, and all the contracts it has with places like Mr Beer, and just about every LHBS to include in starter set, WHY the onestep people don't just pony up the dough to get registered as a sanitizer...UNLESS it's just NOT as good as Iodophor and Star San...

I'm just sayin.

 

[WBC]

If your LBHS was telling a lie then what else would he lie about? If he was mistaken then OK but I have my suspicions.......... Hmmmmmmmm.

 

[JMD87]

Thank you to everyone for responding to my post. All this information has certainly given me some "ammo" to bring back to my LHBS. I will hopefully take a trip tomorrow or Friday to follow up on this issue, and I'll be sure to post my results.

Thanks again and happy brewing

 

[Yuri_Rage]

This thread is a testament to two things:

The vast majority of questions posted here get immediate attention and are usually answered well. You can usually expect a very timely and accurate response to nearly anything posted here.

...and...

HBT has grown to a point where it can actually impact the industry! Thankfully, this thread didn't have the negative impact that it could have, but it goes to show that we're definitely getting attention here!

Kudos to olllllo, Jim, and Five Star Chemicals for setting us all straight!

 

[DrinksWellWithOthers]

On top of what seems like BS, that guy sells 5lbs of One Step at a pretty steep price ($22.50). I can get it for 15 or 16 bucks at my LHBS.

 

[Rob27]

This is my LHBS, and it doesnt surprise me a bit what that guy jim told you. very nice guy, very poor business operator. He seems to just make **** up.

(the shop owner is jim, as well as the star san guy).

I have learned to take EVERYTHING he tells me with a pound of salt. and advise everyone i know who shops there to do the same.

my son gets me into the hobby late 2006, by early 2007 i figured i knew more about the hobby than this guy without a doubt. i dont know if maybe he doesnt attempt to get in the know, but the store has been there for like 15 years

I really dont go there anymore, because all it sells for the all grain brewer is a corona mill, a munchkin imersion chiller made with like 20 feet of 1/4 inch copper tubing for 120 bucks, and a 55#sack of breiss 2 row that has been sitting there for a year. some other choice specialty malts are scattered around as well.

his advice is crap, his tips are shotty, his pointers are hit or miss..... and i dont know if i can blame him 100 percent because i think hes more into winemaking, but I am blaming

Its a ***** tho, because if i recall correctly its been there for like 15 years , middle of Long Island on a very busy road and without a doubt 200 thousand people driving past it every day, the people all around are into the hobby, its the only place around for miles and miles, ---but its like hey i came, i bought my kit, made a zillion extract kits and would like to persue this hobby , maybe go AG, but theres no resources at this place for it.

my advice, be careful what you take away from your encounters there, read john palmers how to brew online (its free) , get some star san from the net, and keep brewing

 

[Revvy]

This is my LHBS, and it doesnt surprise me a bit what that guy jim told you. very nice guy, very poor business operator. He seems to just make **** up.

Heck of a RANT...and one helluva inaugural post!!!!!

Welcome to our little corner of the brewing world!

Methinks you'll fit in here!

 

[EvilTOJ]

BTW: Sanitizers that are bactricides probably have an EPA designation as a Pesticide for disposal purposes only. In other words disposing a 55g drum of it at full concentration might be an environmental no-no.

Anyone doing that?

<--- starts quietly taking down the pictures of his star san disposal operation off his myspace page.

 

[Revvy]

<--- starts quietly taking down the pictures of his star san disposal operation off his myspace page.

You have Myspace????? I have myspace...We could be friends!!!:rockin:

(if I could remember my password that is...on my work computer it logs on automatically...but not here.)

 

[modenacart]

Yeah...Trying to push his Onestep which is NOT an EPA registered Sanitizer....

I still can't figure out why after all these years, and all the contracts it has with places like Mr Beer, and just about every LHBS to include in starter set, WHY the onestep people don't just pony up the dough to get registered as a sanitizer...UNLESS it's just NOT as good as Iodophor and Star San...

I'm just sayin.

Thats some pretty broken logic. I have personally never had problems with one-step and have used contact times of much less then 5 minutes.

 

[Yooper]

You have Myspace????? I have myspace...We could be friends!!!:rockin:

(if I could remember my password that is...on my work computer it logs on automatically...but not here.)

Hey, even I have a myspace account. I needed it to check on my kids' antics. I am NOT doing facebook, however. That's just going overboard.

Well, I would not bash one-step (they aren't the ones who started this thread) because it does do what it claims. I use it mostly for wine, but once my HUGE bag is gone, I will not purchase it again. I've never had an infected batch, or any off-flavors from the one step.

The thing is- star san is quick and easy and dependable. It is safe, and will not harm septic systems. Or even people who drink a bit by mistake. I think that a LHBS owner giving such outrageous erroneous information is what should be addressed.

 

[modenacart]

I have never seen any data that suggest star san is better at sanitizing than one step. The choice is a personal one. If you like star san, use it, if you like one step, use it.

 

[JMD87]

To be fair, I did not catch the guy's name. It could be Jim, or Bob, or Jimbob for all I know. The handfull of times I've gone into the store, I've encountered only three people. One very quiet guy, one very talkative (and what I thought was informative) guy (Jim?), and a nice lady.

1lb of two-row does go for nearly $2.50, the 50lb bag around $85? I absolutely will not buy grain for my LHBS considering the price & quality I can find online. I do try to support them by buying tools/gadgets/equipment though.

It's a shame that this information was passed to me, and I'm hoping that Jim? was simply misinformed. Perhaps I'll go again when Jim isn't there and ask the same question. In the meantime, I'm going to check other Homebrew stores in my area and see if they sell Star-san. You better believe I'll be following up.

Thanks guys

 

[EvilTOJ]

What, doesn't everyone have a myspace these days? It's the Geocities of the 21st century. I put mine in my profile, you Stalky McStalkers.

 

[Chad]

I still can't figure out why after all these years, and all the contracts it has with places like Mr Beer, and just about every LHBS to include in starter set, WHY the onestep people don't just pony up the dough to get registered as a sanitizer...UNLESS it's just NOT as good as Iodophor and Star San...

I'm just sayin.

I think it's more a matter of expense and the number of hoops you have to jump through these days. In an interview Charlie Talley (Five Star) said that they haven't registered SaniClean, the low foam version of Star San, as a sanitizer because the cost of getting through all of the regulatory hurdles wasn't worth it. The advertise it as an "acid rinse" cleaner.

Chad

 

[Hagen]

Jim at Arbor is a winemaker. He's told me himself that his wife is the one to ask about beer. Before I moved out of NY, I shopped there.

For all we know that might be what his distributor told him. And as far as prices go, c.mon, it's a brick and mortar store on Long Island, one of the most expensive places to do business in the US.

It might be nice to find out a little more before jumping on the guy and possibly hurt his business in an already tough place to do business.