SSBrewTech Announced a New Insulated Mash Tun!

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Im scaling up from 10 gallon extract batchhes - and want to do this once (well, really who am i kidding - but want to minimize rework). I am planning on going with a 3x20 gallon kettles HERMS - or getting this 20 gallon Mash Tun and reusing my current electric boil kettle (10 gallons) as LT. Then I would only need to purchase a 20 gal BK (and setup for electric).

Basically using this would save me the cost of purchasing a LT.

This looks really tempting!
 
not even a matter of savings. you take away the insulation and the MLT would hardly be better than a single wall.

Well, it would be better than single wall. Air is a good insulator, I believe air is actually primarily responsible for the insulating properties of fibreglass insulation. Having two walls of stainless steel would reduce the air convection of air around the pot, which is what cools a warm pot. How much better? i have no idea. It may not make a big difference.

I believe this is actually what my mash tun currently is. It's an Aervoid stainless steel cooler, but since it has some damage to it, i don't believe it has a vacuum any more.
 
I have no idea why they would insulate this to begin with. Any sealed twin wall stainless container (preheated) can maintain temps for up to 12 hours.. This is just pretty bling for the rich boy brewers.

I am only here to meet the rich girl brewers. Where are they?
 
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Well, it would be better than single wall. Air is a good insulator, I believe air is actually primarily responsible for the insulating properties of fibreglass insulation. Having two walls of stainless steel would reduce the air convection of air around the pot, which is what cools a warm pot. How much better? i have no idea. It may not make a big difference.

I believe this is actually what my mash tun currently is. It's an Aervoid stainless steel cooler, but since it has some damage to it, i don't believe it has a vacuum any more.

Air has an R value of 5 compared to an R value of 45 for vacuum insulation.

PS - I got an A- in thermodynamics in college so i unfortunately know way more about this than I'd prefer haha
 
LMAO, really???? Not off limits .. If you have it to blow, BLOW IT ! By all means, its yours and I'm not a Democrat that wants to spend, whats yours. I'd love a system that I need dark shades to wear! Its not going to make better, beer... This is a pretty cooler. For the money you can go to herms for better brewing IMO. Why buy a shiny cooler? You bet your rear end I'd drop 20 K at blichmann with out a second thought (I love functional bling). I'm about the beer in the end.. You can make good beer in a pale if you know how to do it. Look at my user name, its not because I converted kegs yet, wish I did at times..

Not sorry for voicing my opinion on a forum I'm not in the cool guy cliques of.. I'm ok with that and ok with speaking my mind, thanks. I'm not the type that needs warm welcomes and butt pats, or envy's others gear at all.

I own a SS product and the welds on said fermenter look done by - a child! function 100% form 77% at best and not what I anticipated looking at all the right photo angles.

They do import pretty kettles, (SS) i have no issues with. Yet, id by blichmanns all day, no issue.

This is a pretty cooler that can't even be drilled to reconfigure for automation making it worth its price. They even market it at those end users in their own words. Im into ERMS I don't see the price point or just flat up the point of this.. Next time i wont comment on something I view as a waste, no worries. If it was more then just a pot cooler, I'd go for it its idea. Sadly, it is what it is.

That's what I meant by bling.. Not that its just pretty(and it is sexy as hell) . Its a pretty cooler that cant be easily modified to reap ITS PRICE POINT. Its a stainless Colman.
--------------------------
As far as vacuum you're 100 % correct right up till you think it cant be done at this price point in china, sadly it can, with profit. These prices are only driven by demand. SS has proved that with their past price jumps.. Order now or add 100+ next month, feel lucky?

----------------------------------
Again my side handed comment was not to insult anyone that needs to feel better about dropping big money on anything they like. If you're not robbing jonney for new shoes, who cares.. I surly don't. If you are well, no comment. Well, other then, as long as EBT is not accepted form of payment, HAVE IT lol. I'm not here to make friends, just beer. I don't care about feelings or others opinions of something they, nor I have - in hand- also. This was simply a single opinion of mine, alone based on photos and SS's comments of its target market and description.

To me it clearly reads: Don't have pumps, HERMS or other extras, and never will? Wish to get that ugly plastic cooler out of the brewery? Stop loosing several degrees on your mash ton like we did-

WTH?? Was its lid open? Most of us know that's a lie.. Yet, some accept it. I happen to know better and know marketing even better.

Moving on if you wish to attack me tell me how its not just a bling, cooler. Change my mind! Is it not ? How? Why? Other then its stainless. Yet to see anything like that said. At least the second smear post had facts, thanks!

No one cares what day I made a account here. Do they? heh, why? Maybe im just too old to get it... I only made it to comment on a controller I want to buy. Trolls were cutting up previous versions of it that needed to be sugared up to look at the new one and do what they do cutting up its short falls and protecting my interests. Why I said anything on this topic, I truly don't know. Gladly going back to a fly on the wall after they cut it up or I buy. Most things needed to be said here were said near a decade ago and on the data base to be read, tomorrow. Same gig, different hops, always.
 
LMAO, really???? Not off limits .. If you have it to blow, BLOW IT ! By all means, its yours and I'm not a Democrat that wants to spend, whats yours. I'd love a system that I need dark shades to wear! Its not going to make better, beer... This is a pretty cooler. For the money you can go to herms for better brewing IMO. Why buy a shiny cooler? You bet your rear end I'd drop 20 K at blichmann with out a second thought (I love functional bling). I'm about the beer in the end.. You can make good beer in a pale if you know how to do it. Look at my user name, its not because I converted kegs yet, wish I did at times..

Not sorry for voicing my opinion on a forum I'm not in the cool guy cliques of.. I'm ok with that and ok with speaking my mind, thanks. I'm not the type that needs warm welcomes and butt pats, or envy's others gear at all.

I own a SS product and the welds on said fermenter look done by - a child! function 100% form 77% at best and not what I anticipated looking at all the right photo angles.

They do import pretty kettles, (SS) i have no issues with. Yet, id by blichmanns all day, no issue.

This is a pretty cooler that can't even be drilled to reconfigure for automation making it worth its price. They even market it at those end users in their own words. Im into ERMS I don't see the price point or just flat up the point of this.. Next time i wont comment on something I view as a waste, no worries. If it was more then just a pot cooler, I'd go for it its idea. Sadly, it is what it is.

That's what I meant by bling.. Not that its just pretty(and it is sexy as hell) . Its a pretty cooler that cant be easily modified to reap ITS PRICE POINT. Its a stainless Colman.
--------------------------
As far as vacuum you're 100 % correct right up till you think it cant be done at this price point in china, sadly it can, with profit. These prices are only driven by demand. SS has proved that with their past price jumps.. Order now or add 100+ next month, feel lucky?

----------------------------------
Again my side handed comment was not to insult anyone that needs to feel better about dropping big money on anything they like. If you're not robbing jonney for new shoes, who cares.. I surly don't. If you are well, no comment. Well, other then, as long as EBT is not accepted form of payment, HAVE IT lol. I'm not here to make friends, just beer. I don't care about feelings or others opinions of something they, nor I have - in hand- also. This was simply a single opinion of mine, alone based on photos and SS's comments of its target market and description.

To me it clearly reads: Don't have pumps, HERMS or other extras, and never will? Wish to get that ugly plastic cooler out of the brewery? Stop loosing several degrees on your mash ton like we did-

WTH?? Was its lid open? Most of us know that's a lie.. Yet, some accept it. I happen to know better and know marketing even better.

Moving on if you wish to attack me tell me how its not just a bling, cooler. Change my mind! Is it not ? How? Why? Other then its stainless. Yet to see anything like that said. At least the second smear post had facts, thanks!

No one cares what day I made a account here. Do they? heh, why? Maybe im just too old to get it... I only made it to comment on a controller I want to buy. Trolls were cutting up previous versions of it that needed to be sugared up to look at the new one and do what they do cutting up its short falls and protecting my interests. Why I said anything on this topic, I truly don't know. Gladly going back to a fly on the wall after they cut it up or I buy. Most things needed to be said here were said near a decade ago and on the data base to be read, tomorrow. Same gig, different hops, always.

Just a kind word of advice, in a situation where you're not a fan of a particular product in a thread where people who have that product are discussing it better just to stay out of it.

There are threads like that at HBT that I have been tempted to post in because I can't believe people are actually buying a product I think sucks. For instance, the fastferment conical fermenters are just about the last thing I would ever want to use. Can't imagine how they have become popular. I wanted to express that sentiment in the thread where people who bought it are discussing all the issues they are having with them, but I thought better of it and have not posted in that thread.

I'd say it's fine to bring up a point like "I think it would be better if it had this feature. Without that feature I cannot use it in my setup." or "The thermal properties of this mash ton vs an igloo cooler mastun are X and Y and I cannot imagine spending the extra money for what is an insignificant difference in performance."

But to just slam a product and insult the people who buy it? Well, you're really just looking for an argument when you do that.
 
Just a kind word of advice, in a situation where you're not a fan of a particular product in a thread where people who have that product are discussing it better just to stay out of it.

There are threads like that at HBT that I have been tempted to post in because I can't believe people are actually buying a product I think sucks. For instance, the fastferment conical fermenters are just about the last thing I would ever want to use. Can't imagine how they have become popular. I wanted to express that sentiment in the thread where people who bought it are discussing all the issues they are having with them, but I thought better of it and have not posted in that thread.

I'd say it's fine to bring up a point like "I think it would be better if it had this feature. Without that feature I cannot use it in my setup." or "The thermal properties of this mash ton vs an igloo cooler mastun are X and Y and I cannot imagine spending the extra money for what is an insignificant difference in performance."

But to just slam a product and insult the people who buy it? Well, you're really just looking for an argument when you do that.

Most reasonable adults quickly figure out how to voice an opposing opinion without being a jerk - it just comes with growing up. What is really annoying is the person who is old enough to know they are being a jerk but refuse to own it and try to hide behind excuses of how the world is wrong. Reminds me of the Martin Short lawyer character on SNL that used to say "I'm not being defensive, you are."
 
Caveat Emptor - Even with an extended pre-heat and using the optional MTSs Temperature Control my Ss Infusion Mash Tun loses 2° F in 60 minutes. The optional MTSs Temperature Control is grossly under powered and at best only slows the heat loss.

The mash tun is double wall stainless steel with high density foam insulation but there are no thermal breaks where the interior and exterior stainless steel join around the top, surrounding the thermowell and the lid perimeter. As a result the mash tun’s external surface temperature is typically 89° F in a 68° F room.

The build quality is good, the drainage is excellent but due to the heat loss even when using the optional heater I would not recommend this product as currently designed.

00 Minutes – 154.0° Thermowell / 155° Internal
15 Minutes – 153.5° Thermowell
30 Minutes – 152.6° Thermowell / 153° Internal
45 Minutes – 152.0° Thermowell
60 Minutes – 152.0° Thermowell / 153° Internal
Ambient Room Temperature – 68°
MTSs Temperature Control Setting – 154°
 
I was sort of considering using the 20G tun for my eHERMS system, but it seems like it would be an awkward fit.

Anyone out there using this in a recirculating mash system?
 
why would it be an akward fit. I am currently trying to figure out if i should get it for such a porpose aswell (and maybe others that i have some plans for). What problems do you see with using it in your setup?
 
why would it be an akward fit. I am currently trying to figure out if i should get it for such a porpose aswell (and maybe others that i have some plans for). What problems do you see with using it in your setup?

Honestly, I looked at it recently and I don't think it would be awkward anymore. They have a recirc port now (I don't think they did when I made my post). That's really all that was missing. I doubt I'm going to spend money in that direction soon, but if I was looking to upgrade my mash tun (a 15g Blichmann, modified for recirc in an eHERMS system) I'd look really hard at the SS Brewtech 20G tun. I could go so far as to say that'd probably be what I'd buy.
 
2 degree loss in 60 minutes? That is excellent heat retention!


Caveat Emptor - Even with an extended pre-heat and using the optional MTSs Temperature Control my Ss Infusion Mash Tun loses 2° F in 60 minutes. The optional MTSs Temperature Control is grossly under powered and at best only slows the heat loss.

The mash tun is double wall stainless steel with high density foam insulation but there are no thermal breaks where the interior and exterior stainless steel join around the top, surrounding the thermowell and the lid perimeter. As a result the mash tun’s external surface temperature is typically 89° F in a 68° F room.

The build quality is good, the drainage is excellent but due to the heat loss even when using the optional heater I would not recommend this product as currently designed.

00 Minutes – 154.0° Thermowell / 155° Internal
15 Minutes – 153.5° Thermowell
30 Minutes – 152.6° Thermowell / 153° Internal
45 Minutes – 152.0° Thermowell
60 Minutes – 152.0° Thermowell / 153° Internal
Ambient Room Temperature – 68°
MTSs Temperature Control Setting – 154°
 
A whopping 1 degree difference... I don't think the mash will notice!

Yeah, probably not.

But the manufacturer makes a point of mentioning the thermal properties of this pretty expensive item and goes on to explain why maintaining a consistent mash temp is important and desirable.

A $50 insulated mash tun is more than twice as effective at maintaining a consistent mash temp.

I'm not trying to have an argument about whether or not 1 degree, or 2 degrees or 5 degrees matters to the mash.

I'm also not trying to have an argument as to whether or not the thermal properties of this mash tun are sufficient. I personally would be using it in a recirculating system, so I'd be maintaining my desired mash temp to within a degree regardless.

But bottom line is that it doesn't hold temp as well as an insulated cooler, so if that's the most important thing to a potential buyer they should know that going in.
 
In my experience a round 10G Igloo or Rubbermaid cooler will lose less than 1F per hour.

I've heard others say this but it wasn't my experience. I used an igloo cooler for years and it always lost at least 5 degrees.

I'm not promoting either method, and it doesn't cost much to replace a cooler, but I think it is important to let others know that not all coolers perform that well.
 
I'm not promoting either method, and it doesn't cost much to replace a cooler, but I think it is important to let others know that not all coolers perform that well.

I think it's important to let others know that not all brewers measure their temps very accurately or report them very honestly.
 
I've heard others say this but it wasn't my experience. I used an igloo cooler for years and it always lost at least 5 degrees.

I'm not promoting either method, and it doesn't cost much to replace a cooler, but I think it is important to let others know that not all coolers perform that well.

When I used one I never opened to stir after I started. Could that be the difference? And maybe since I wasn't stirring and using the relatively short probe from a thermapen I was just measuring the hottest parts at the top of the grain bed and it was significantly cooler at the bottom? I don't know.

I did have one that got waterlogged, and it didn't perform as well, obviously.
 
2 degree loss in 60 minutes? That is excellent heat retention!

That 2 degree loss in 60 minutes was when using the optional ($79.95) MTSs Temperature Control which has a 12V adhesive heater pad and digital temp controller.

http://www.ssbrewtech.com/products/mtss-temp-control-for-infussion-mash-tun

"You simply set your target temperature and the heater will cycle on and off to maintain your set point."

In my opinion the optional MTSs Temperature Control should at least hold the mash temp to within 1 degree of the set point.
 
But bottom line is that it doesn't hold temp as well as an insulated cooler, so if that's the most important thing to a potential buyer they should know that going in.

True! There is a change the manufacturer could implement to remedy the heat loss issue. If there was a thermal break where the interior and exterior stainless steel meet at the top the internal heat would be retained and not conducted and dispersed to the exterior shell.
 
1 degree is pretty tough when using resistance heating... hysteresis in the system is going to be that much...

That 2 degree loss in 60 minutes was when using the optional ($79.95) MTSs Temperature Control which has a 12V adhesive heater pad and digital temp controller.

http://www.ssbrewtech.com/products/mtss-temp-control-for-infussion-mash-tun

"You simply set your target temperature and the heater will cycle on and off to maintain your set point."

In my opinion the optional MTSs Temperature Control should at least hold the mash temp to within 1 degree of the set point.
 
1 degree is pretty tough when using resistance heating... hysteresis in the system is going to be that much...

I use resistance heating on uninsulated stainless steel fermenters of similar volume with PID temperature controllers, thermowells and Pt100 sensors. They maintain a temperature within ±0.2ºF of the set point.

But for the sake of argument let's say you are correct and 1 degree is pretty tough when using resistance heating then the manufacturer should not claim, "Holds mash temp to within 1 degree of set point."
 
your .2 degrees is measured how and where? Unless you stir the mash it will have a temp variation across it even when recirculating... your temp probe may be holding that where it is placed but the entire mash I am willing to bet is +-2 degrees across it.
 
mine only loses between 1 and 1.5 degrees F in an hour in outdoor, ambient temp. of 65-70 degrees F. That's also without preheating the mash tun. However, once I dough in, stir and put the lid on it, I don't touch it for the entire hour -- no stirring during the mash, etc.
 
Yes and no...

With RIMS, probably not. With HERMS, depends upon efficiency.



With HERMS we're going to be using our HLT water later for sparging AND of course, IDEALLY you don't want to raise the temp of the wort coming out your HEX/RIMS tube up into the mashout / enzyme denaturing temp ranges as it will hurt our precious enzymes. When you tweak a recirculating mash system this way you will get slower temperature ramps; the speed is also dependant upon the efficiency of the HEX in a HERMS system -with many people using stainless steel coils in HLTs now after the example of Kal's theelectricbrewery.com system, the efficiency can be pretty low ESPECIALLY if you're not stirring or whirlpooling the water in your HLT.



-Combine all these factors with a completely uninsulated keg-based mashtun and you can end up with very slow temperature steps that many people are seeing the purpose of temperature steps is to have MORE control over the process and the enzyme activation times; when you can't move quickly enough from one temperature to another you end up resting too long and the whole brewday takes longer.



Insulation can definitely help increase your temp ramp speed and give you more control which is the purpose of HERMS/RIMS in the first place. An insulated mashtun (which is a standard in the British brewing tradition) also means that you can do super simple infusion mashes that don't REQUIRE any application of heat to hold temp for the entire hour or 90 minute mash time.



Insulation also means increased energy efficiency and decreased costs (although I admit that electricity is a very minor contributor to costs at home brew scale).





Adam


Agree on this. I am currently using a single tier, three keggle (Brutus 10 style) rig with a herms in my HLT. I have insulated my mashed tun with reflectix but it still does not hold heat very well. When using the herms coil, in order to raise temps fairly quickly I need the HLT to between about 10° higher than where I want my mash to be. On my last brew, my target was 154. When my temperature dropped to about 152, I recirculated through my coil with the water at 165. I was able to raise the temperature in just a minute or two with stirring. In the past though, I have tried to make the temperature in the HLT just a couple degrees above my target and it took forever to get to that temperature. I am hoping with this insulated tun (mine is coming in a couple days) I won't have to use the herms as much and when I do it will work better.
 
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