Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[eric19312]

I’m not sure what all the hype is with the carb stone? Am I missing something? Like others I just oxygenate using a wand and oxygen tank right before pitching.

I started fermenting all of my NEIPA’s under 3-5psi. I’m soft crashing one right now and it’s at 13psi. View attachment 660589

My must haves.

Tri manifold with gauge. Use adjustable PRV
Sight glass
Closed Transfer kit
Racking arm helps

I think we went through this a few pages back and it lead to everyone getting an email from Spike. These unitanks are not intended to be used to ferment under pressure without a proper PRV safety valve. I don't believe this is some dodgy marketing scheme to get people to buy more carb stones nor is it Spike getting crazy lawyered up. Surely no lawyer would approve their marketing tagline.

 

[Nate R]

I plug the therm well with some paper towel and it holds the probe in place. Been working great so far haha

I also am curious why Spike provides a racking arm with the Flex Plus, but not the CF. I have one of each for different applications, but thought it was interesting.

+1 to this!
Beat me to it... i also shove some paper towels in there... has worked very well for me so far

 

[Blazinlow86]

I’m not sure what all the hype is with the carb stone? Am I missing something? Like others I just oxygenate using a wand and oxygen tank right before pitching.

I started fermenting all of my NEIPA’s under 3-5psi. I’m soft crashing one right now and it’s at 13psi. View attachment 660589

My must haves.

Tri manifold with gauge. Use adjustable PRV
Sight glass
Closed Transfer kit
Racking arm helps

Imagine if you could have your beers finished tommorow or a week from now with no other difference. Which would you choose? Additionally I see you've removed the safety prv valve and replaced it with a spunding valve rather than keep the safety pvr and add a spunding valve. Consider adding a ball lock valve to your spunding valve and adding the safety pvr back to avoid blowing the lid off. Cheers

 

[Beholder]

I can't say there's anything I don't like about it because I've never used it. But I might, just for kicks, since there are a number of you using it and swearing by it.

I get a kick out of setting carb stone pressure and watching head pressure creep up until it reaches target and beer is done.

But I don’t use it too often, only when I gotta move the pipeline along quickly. Mostly is spund, drop temp, and carb from top which gives some clearing time before pushing into kegs.

 

[Blazinlow86]

.

 

[SEndorf]

.

If you keep that up, the inundation of goats will be epic.
Just sayin.....

 

[SEndorf]

I use the carb stone to aerate because I have no head space on top for my wand.
I did realize this stone needs a lot of volume to do the job. (Between 4 and 5 LPM) and a good 1.5 to 2 minutes.

 

[Vale71]

And there's a warning to that extent right there by the port. It's unbelievable how often people take the word "warning" to mean "to be ignored at will".

 

[jturman35]

Imagine if you could have your beers finished tommorow or a week from now with no other difference. Which would you choose? Additionally I see you've removed the safety prv valve and replaced it with a spunding valve rather than keep the safety pvr and add a spunding valve. Consider adding a ball lock valve to your spunding valve and adding the safety pvr back to avoid blowing the lid off. Cheers

Been rolling the dice! I’m going to look into adding another threaded hole in the manifold just for the safety prv. I typically never get this thing to hold this much pressure but I see what your saying. During fermentation I usually stay very low 2-3psi. Afterwards I will let it creep up usually around 5-8psi at most. I’m not really worried about carbonating in the tank. My goal is to build up as much c02 before I start to cold crash, before I start loosing co2.

 

[eric19312]

Been rolling the dice! I’m going to look into adding another threaded hole in the manifold just for the safety prv. I typically never get this thing to hold this much pressure but I see what your saying. During fermentation I usually stay very low 2-3psi. Afterwards I will let it creep up usually around 5-8psi at most. I’m not really worried about carbonating in the tank. My goal is to build up as much c02 before I start to cold crash, before I start loosing co2.

Easier to just put your spunding valve on the gas disconnect. Simple adapter or just buy one of those snazzy new diaphragm spunding valve kits.

 

[Brooothru]

I’m not sure what all the hype is with the carb stone? Am I missing something? Like others I just oxygenate using a wand and oxygen tank right before pitching.

I started fermenting all of my NEIPA’s under 3-5psi. I’m soft crashing one right now and it’s at 13psi. View attachment 660589

My must haves.

Tri manifold with gauge. Use adjustable PRV
Sight glass
Closed Transfer kit
Racking arm helps

Semi thread drift.

I've got about five batches in an SS Brew Tech Unitank under my belt. It has a carbonating stone located in about the same location as the Spike systems. I try to incorporate as many LoDO techniques as seem practical, so all transfers and additions are sealed and usually under pressure, followed by crashing and transfer to a serving keg. After the beer is out of the Unitank I remove the 8" TC on the top (no gasketed "lid" on the SS) and spray down the inside with hot water, draining out the bottom dump valve. After about five minutes of vigorous spraying, I seal the tank back up and clean with a high pressure CIP ball mounted on the top of the fermenter and drained out the dump valve and the racking ports using hot water and PBW. The CIP ball is a larger diameter unit and the supply pump is a modified sump pump with an output of 22 GPM, so it really blasts the inside of the tank. After 15~20 minutes of this pressure wash I drain all the PBW out of the tank and rinse with hot water, followed by a mist spray of StarSan from a spray bottle. After everything dries I seal it up until the next use.

I was doing some random "playing" in the basement brewery a month or so ago and decided to inspect the two butterfly valves on the Unitank, thinking I might want to disassemble them for cleaning before next Spring. They were amazingly sparkling clean, but when I removed them there was a stale smell like dead yeast emanating from the ports. I popped the 8" TC to get a better look inside, but everything was shiny and clean. So I removed the blow-off pipe thinking maybe some krausen had bubbled up and gotten stuck. Nope, clean as a whistle. I removed the sampling valve. When I CIP clean, I will open the sampling valve to drain for a few minutes to clean it as well. The valve itself was clean, but the recess for the TC port had a small accumulation of gunk that appeared to be trub and/or yeast that had been crammed into the recess under the pressure of fermentation and spunding.

But then when I removed the oxygen stone I nearly puked. The collar area recess for the TC fitting (about 1½" in depth) was packed solid with that crap. After wiping and cleaning the debris, I rinsed the tank, drained it, removed the carb stone fitting and covered the port with a TC cap and CIP'd the whole shebang for half and hour with SaniClean. Needless to say, my cleaning protocols going forward will include removing both the TC oxygen stone and sampling valve to access the recess collars. Amazingly both the bottom dump valve port and the transfer valve port were spotless and free of debris. My experience underscores that there are a lot of hidden places where nasties can reside out of sight, even after you do what you think should be more than sufficient for a thorough cleaning. Glad I learned the easy way without ruining a batch or two, wondering where the infection might be.

Brooo Brother

 

[Vale71]

As far as SSB's Unitanks go they're not really suitable for CIPping with a spray ball. Besides the possibility of shadowed areas arising through the cooling coil the TC attachments will not be cleaned efficiently as they are of the wrong shape and will have shadowed areas and won't drain efficiently. Moreover the gaskets SSB provides, besides being made of silicone rubber which is the worst material for this purpose, are all 1.5" in size which is a bit stupid on their part since most TC attachments are actually 1.0" in size. Unfortunately they appear to fit as the flange has the same OD but if you fit a 1.5" gasket to an attachment that has an ID of 1.0" you're creating a nook that will fill up with gunk and in a very short time will end up being the microbiological equivalent of Sodom and Gomorra. Those attachments need to be fitted with properly sized gaskets right out of the box.

As for the carb stone, you need to remove it, disassemble the ball valve and clean everything and sanitize the hell out of it, ideally by boiling in RO water (to avoid clogging the pores). When you stop pushing either oxygen or CO2 through the stone wort/beer will backflow through the stone and collect at the (hopefully closed) ball valve, which will prevent your tank from slowly leaking its contents out but which will itself become a microbiological nightmare if not properly managed, like all ball valves do actually.

 

[eric19312]

Great story Broo. I’m becoming more and more pleased with the Spike lid design—-full open for easy cleaning and visual inspection. I’ve just about decided against messing with CIP, my fountain pump in a bucket is doing the job fine and every attachment comes off for full soak in the bucket while the tank itself is cleaned. 100% visual inspection after the PBW wash followed by a sponge cleaning of any remaining visible dirt then rinse with warm water.

I don’t sanitize until ready to brew and don’t seal it between batches.

 

[Nate R]

+1 to the last few comments above...
I only have a small 5 gallon cf5, and i always dissaemble between each use.

Also, i don't reassemble until the boil starts- no proof or science, but i like the idea of a fresh dose of star san right before the next use.

 

[itsnotrequired]

i also disassemble between each use, pbw soak, rinse and set aside to dry until next use. during boil, soak parts in starsan, spray down the interior/lid and re-assemble. i do use a cip ball for cleaning but that is mainly due to the configuration of my brew area, i can't have the conical permanently installed next to my sink, easier to cip then fill a bucket, etc. yes, yes, you can get wheels for it but i'm pretty risk averse and don't want to risk the kids or something tipping over a full conical. cip gets just about everything, i usually need to do a little wipe up near the lid and on the lid itself.

 

[eric19312]

i also disassemble between each use, pbw soak, rinse and set aside to dry until next use. during boil, soak parts in starsan, spray down the interior/lid and re-assemble. i do use a cip ball for cleaning but that is mainly due to the configuration of my brew area, i can't have the conical permanently installed next to my sink, easier to cip then fill a bucket, etc. yes, yes, you can get wheels for it but i'm pretty risk averse and don't want to risk the kids or something tipping over a full conical. cip gets just about everything, i usually need to do a little wipe up near the lid and on the lid itself.

“CIP” with all the parts in the bucket. Fountain pump from my keg washer moving enough water to clean it. It’s a CF15 and really no problem to lift it empty out of the chamber and set it in middle of garage. Bucket let’s me work with minimal cleaning solution...1.5 gallons do not using much chemicals.

 

[k-daddy]

I had the same concern about the Spike carb stone, that it was a larger micron size (2 micron) than I wanted for oxygenation purposes (0.5 micron). So I went straight to the wand with 0.5 stone, and a pure O2 tank (proper tank, not the small red box store variety) with O2 regulator (that indicates volume). I swirl the wand in the wort through the top 1.5" TC fitting while oxygenating, usually at 1L/min x 2 minutes for a 10 gallon batch, then pitch my yeast/starter through this same opening. After pitching, I install the gas manifold onto this TC, attach a gas QD with a 4' open-ended gas line onto the gas post of the manifold, and run the open end into the sanitizer bucket for blow off. After the ferm has about ended, I replace the "blow off QD" with my CO2 supply QD to the gas post and set the CO2 regulator at about 3 psi, all the way through cold crashing (so I don't have to worry about imploding the fermenter as the temp drops). This has worked perfectly, and I have never worried about this whole process again.

I have the CF5 (usually filled to 5.5 gallons) and had thought about doing what you do. My concern was that an active fermentation could infiltrate the gas manifold and compromise the pressure gauge, even though I understand that the pressure keeps the krausen down. I've also read that a pressure fermentation could be damaging to the yeast.

 

[Stand]

I bought a blichmann spunding valve for my CF10, but I was hoping to find a PRV that I can connect to a ball-lock QD during fermentation.

Anybody seen something like that?

 

[Sbe2]

Highly recommend gettting a 2”tc to 1/2”barb for dumping. I’ve had my cf5 for a year now while making a mess every time dump, well not any more. It makes it so easy, wish I bought it earlier. I also bought a 2” sight glass, so can’t wait to use that.

 

[Beholder]

Highly recommend gettting a 2”tc to 1/2”barb for dumping. I’ve had my cf5 for a year now while making a mess every time dump, well not any more. It makes it so easy, wish I bought it earlier. I also bought a 2” sight glass, so can’t wait to use that.

Only modification I would recommend is TC to cam-lock (or QD of choice) instead of barb, as it enables easier connection of different tubing for additional uses, e.g. initial filling of cooled wort to fermenter from the kettle.

 

[Nate R]

Only modification I would recommend is TC to cam-lock (or QD of choice) instead of barb, as it enables easier connection of different tubing for additional uses, e.g. initial filling of cooled wort to fermenter from the kettle.

That requires a pump, correct? To pump up into the tank vs. gravity fill via the top?

 

[Vale71]

That requires a pump, correct? To pump up into the tank vs. gravity fill via the top?

As long as the kettle is placed higher than the lquid level in the fermenter it doesn't matter whether you fill from the top or from the bottom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communicating_vessels

 

[Vale71]

I bought a blichmann spunding valve for my CF10, but I was hoping to find a PRV that I can connect to a ball-lock QD during fermentation.

Anybody seen something like that?View attachment 660902

PRVs must be non-adjustable and permanently mounted unless you are willing to risk the tank blowing up and injuring you or someone else.

 

[Stand]

Yep, that's why I asked if anyone knows of a PRV I can attach to the flare end of a disconnect. I guess I wasn't clear.


Anybody have any ideas? I was looking at the DIY spunding builds to try to cobble something together from those parts, but where do you get a legit PRV?

I see a few online, but not sure how safe they are.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Yep, that's why I asked if anyone knows of a PRV I can attach to the flare end of a disconnect. I guess I wasn't clear.


Anybody have any ideas? I was looking at the DIY spunding builds to try to cobble something together from those parts, but where do you get a legit PRV?

I see a few online, but not sure how safe they are.

Why not buy the spike manifold and a ball lock spunding valve? You will need a ball lock spunding valve to rack carbonated beer to kegs regardless so kill 2 bird's with one stone. Cheers

 

[Yesfan]

Yep, that's why I asked if anyone knows of a PRV I can attach to the flare end of a disconnect. I guess I wasn't clear.


Anybody have any ideas? I was looking at the DIY spunding builds to try to cobble something together from those parts, but where do you get a legit PRV?

I see a few online, but not sure how safe they are.

What about this from Bobby M? (LINK)

 

[Stand]

Why not buy the spike manifold and a ball lock spunding valve? You will need a ball lock spunding valve to rack carbonated beer to kegs regardless so kill 2 bird's with one stone. Cheers

That is a good idea, but I want to ferment under pressure. I currently only spund the last 5 gravity points because of safety concerns, but I would like to try doing the whole fermentation under pressure. I have had problems with the spunding valves I was using before (the adjustable pull ring kind).

I might buy the spike PRV and try to find an adapter that goes from that to a flare.

What about this from Bobby M? (LINK)

That looks sweet, but it isn't a safety device. I have a spunding valve I just need a PRV to slap on a QD.

 

[eric19312]

Any chance you could return that spunding valve? It’s a nice piece of hardware but is more expensive than buying the spike manifold ($40) and this excellent spunding valve ($23) which would be compatible with your fermentor.

https://www.ebay.com/i/333295587082...CQTs-wTXUFU_LTRHMyYmbh2gYc9UaQkRoC2lgQAvD_BwE

Sorry working on iPad...you can find the same valve from us supplier for similar price if you look around.

 

[eric19312]

Or how about a tri clamp tee https://www.brewershardware.com/1_5-Tri-Clover-Clamp-Tee.html
and this PRV https://www.ssbrewtech.com/products/replacement-prv

Seems clunky and expensive solution but think it would work and address safety concern.

 

[Vale71]

Yep, that's why I asked if anyone knows of a PRV I can attach to the flare end of a disconnect. I guess I wasn't clear.

I assumed that the disconnect would be self-sealing, which would be obviously very dangerous. If that's not the case then disregard what I said previously...

 

[eric19312]

Ok maybe this would work...it looks like you want to put a gas ball lock connector on that post on side of the spunding valve.

https://spikebrewing.com/products/15-psi-pressure-relief-valve

https://www.homebrewing.org/14-FFL-x-14-FFL-Swivel-Brass_p_3381.html

https://www.homebrewing.org/Gas-MFL-Ball-Lock-Disconnect_p_4965.html

 

[Vale71]

That would be just plain reckless...

 

[Stand]

Ok maybe this would work...it looks like you want to put a gas ball lock connector on that post on side of the spunding valve.

https://spikebrewing.com/products/15-psi-pressure-relief-valve

https://www.homebrewing.org/14-FFL-x-14-FFL-Swivel-Brass_p_3381.html

https://www.homebrewing.org/Gas-MFL-Ball-Lock-Disconnect_p_4965.html

Do you see the thread sizing on the spike page? That might work well. Thanks!

That would be just plain reckless...

I'm here asking how to do this safely. Reckless? Sounds like you've got a deep knowledge on this subject that demands my attention.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Do you see the thread sizing on the spike page? That might work well. Thanks!



I'm here asking how to do this safely. Reckless? Sounds like you've got a deep knowledge on this subject that demands my attention.

Just buy the spike manifold, a ball lock spunding valve and never seal the fermentor during primary fermentation without adequate headspace. No need to reinvent the wheel here. Cheers

 

[eric19312]

Do you see the thread sizing on the spike page? That might work well. Thanks!

missed it thought it was MFL you will want a Fnpt to FFL

cause I just can't walk away from the light

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ffltomnpt.htm
plus
https://www.grainger.com/product/PARKER-Brass-Coupling-13Y874

But all that said I tend to agree with @Vale71 and think that if you are putting a PRV on your tank because you want to protect the tank, yourself, and anybody that happens by either the Spike manifold with the Spike PRV unmolested or the tri-clover T with something like the SS Brewtech PRV would be way to go. Perhaps one more solution would be to drill a hole in the 4" TC end cap that is part of your temperature control coil and weld on this guy (1/4) and add the spike PRV there.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/halfcoupling.htm

Just spitballing ideas cause its fun. Curious what you end up doing.

 

[Stand]

missed it thought it was MFL you will want a Fnpt to FFL

cause I just can't walk away from the light

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ffltomnpt.htm
plus
https://www.grainger.com/product/PARKER-Brass-Coupling-13Y874

But all that said I tend to agree with @Vale71 and think that if you are putting a PRV on your tank because you want to protect the tank, yourself, and anybody that happens by either the Spike manifold with the Spike PRV unmolested or the tri-clover T with something like the SS Brewtech PRV would be way to go. Perhaps one more solution would be to drill a hole in the 4" TC end cap that is part of your temperature control coil and weld on this guy (1/4) and add the spike PRV there.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/halfcoupling.htm

Just spitballing ideas cause its fun. Curious what you end up doing.

Drilling the 4" TC sounds like a really good idea since I bought the clear plastic one and don't really use the 4" SS cap anyway. Only real problem with that would be trying to put threads into it. I've never tried to tap stainless steel. I'm sure it is no-joke, but I'll do some research.

 

[eric19312]

Drilling the 4" TC sounds like a really good idea since I bought the clear plastic one and don't really use the 4" SS cap anyway. Only real problem with that would be trying to put threads into it. I've never tried to tap stainless steel. I'm sure it is no-joke, but I'll do some research.

Thought you had the tc-100. I’m saying drill the cap part of that guy.

 

[Stand]

I have Fermentrack running an upright freezer, but the idea should work just as well with the 4" TC endcap I have (with much less risk if I screw it up).

I'll order the Spike PRV, and I'll try to tap it and fit it into my end-cap. Thanks guys!

 

[eric19312]

Oh yah that’s the way to go. I’m really happy with CF15 in upright freezer, and those end caps are easily replaced. You could also get one with a 1.5 TC on it already and use that SS brewteck PRV.

 

[eric19312]

Oh yah that’s the way to go. I’m really happy with CF15 in upright freezer, and those end caps are easily replaced. You could also get one with a 1.5 TC on it already and use that SS brewteck PRV.

Actually reach out to @Jaybird and he can probably make it for you just the way you need.

Edited to add check this thread if you don’t use the TC100 I really think @Jaybird can do exactly what you need and do it well.

Do you need a 1 off Stainless part built for your system? Let's discuss it.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...t-for-your-system?--Let's-discuss-it..582539/