Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[sicktght311]

To answer just about the CF10, it shows .6 gallons below the racking arm. However, a lot has to do with your recipe and process. Do you cold break in the BK or fermenter? Do you add hops in the CF10? Are you dumping trub? Etc....

Over time, I have refined my processes that has caused me to increase my recipes ingredients.... So, I focus on every variable item on a recipe-to-recipe basis....

Yeah understood. I also currently scale all my recipes depending on if i'm dryhopping or not, or adding a lot of adjuncts that will soak up during fermentation. I just meant do you overall scale up by like a half gallon to account for it, on top of whatever you're scaling in general. With my 5 Gallon brewbuckets i typically put 6 total gallons in the fermenter for any IPAs with dryhopping. 5.5 for anything that doesnt have dryhops or additions.

 

[CodeSection]

...I just meant do you overall scale up by like a half gallon to account for it, on top of whatever you're scaling in general...

Yes, in general and before I changed my processes, I calculated .5 gallon of waste in the CF10.

 

[awoitte]

Here's the TILT log. There's a little flakiness in the SG readings as I've been trying to get it to warm up in my cold garage.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11jKVDhIGjYGKRDnIyqXUP8xEiBGdgHFRSJBxO6zYcN0/htmlview#

What do you mean by SG readings are flaky? Is a Tilt only accurate at a certain temperature?

 

[mongoose33]

What do you mean by SG readings are flaky? Is a Tilt only accurate at a certain temperature?

Maybe I should have used a different descriptor. When I manipulate the fermenter to make it warmer (hopefully!) invariably I shake the fermenter to some degree, which sloshes the beer around inside, which causes a false reading on the TILT for a bit, then it settles down again. Here's an example:

What's up with the drop from 1.042 to 1.036 then back to 1.041? Answer: it's me wrapping the fermenter in a moving blanket trying to get it to warm up and, as a result, disturbing the TILT. But it settles back down again.

Here's the general trend, captured pretty well in this graph:

Every time there's a flaky disconnect in the trend, it's me doing something to the fermenter, including moving it so the TILT was occluded by the refrigerator and the Raspberry Pi couldn't receive it. Moved the Pi and it started recording again.

 

[brewohio]

Maybe a dumb question but are you guys sanitizing the gas manifold? Obviously you wouldn't want to submerge it with the pressure gauge but maybe a spray bottle? Or not at all? Doesn't really touch anything. Overthinking maybe.

 

[Nate R]

Maybe a dumb question but are you guys sanitizing the gas manifold? Obviously you wouldn't want to submerge it with the pressure gauge but maybe a spray bottle? Or not at all? Doesn't really touch anything. Overthinking maybe.

yeah... if you watch the Spike video, the "pro" brewer does just dunk it ENTIRELY into a bath of star-san (after it is assembled, right before he attaches it). I did get a little star-san once in the gauge- no long term damage I have found. But it was annoying and probably not good long-term.
Now, I take it apart every 5 batches or so- sanitize it all re-wrap the nylon thread, etc.
Otherwise, I hold it by the gauge and dunk the rest in star-san so mostly it is covered. I then spray all of the inside with star-san, then attach.

 

[jturman35]

I just spray star San inside the manifold and let it run back out. No issues with 20 or so batches doing it this way. Usually take apart and clean and re apply thread tape about every other batch.

The conical on the other hand gets completely disassembled and cleaned every batch. I try and fill with starsan soon as possible.

 

[sicktght311]

I see a lot of comments and threads over the years of people completely disassembling their fermenters after every use, or every other use. Why so often? I find it hard to believe that commercial breweries pull everything apart after every brew session. Typically they CIP everything with hot cleaning solution, so why wouldnt home brewers do the same. Sure a complete disassemble and deep clean is needed, but that frequent??

 

[CodeSection]

I see a lot of comments and threads over the years of people completely disassembling their fermenters after every use, or every other use. Why so often? I find it hard to believe that commercial breweries pull everything apart after every brew session. Typically they CIP everything with hot cleaning solution, so why wouldnt home brewers do the same. Sure a complete disassemble and deep clean is needed, but that frequent??

I completely disassemble my CF10 after every use. Everything gets cleaned and disinfected. I even go so far as disinfecting again with Starsan right before I use it again.

I read on probrewers.com how breweries use chemicals to CIP. After posting in a thread I was looking into that process for my CF10 and bright tank, I was told by a probrewer NOT to attempt it since the chemicals they use are too caustic and should not be used in a home brew environment. I took his advice.

My question back to you, why wouldn't you want to disassemble everything and thoroughly clean your fermenter? For me, in the end, it really isn't that time consuming.

 

[Nate R]

I see a lot of comments and threads over the years of people completely disassembling their fermenters after every use, or every other use. Why so often? I find it hard to believe that commercial breweries pull everything apart after every brew session. Typically they CIP everything with hot cleaning solution, so why wouldnt home brewers do the same. Sure a complete disassemble and deep clean is needed, but that frequent??

I think that scale comes into play as well.it is my understanding that a CIP pump for a pro brewer is used just for CIP. High volumn/ pressure, can handle very high heat, etc. Add to that the chemicals mentioned above.
Finally, with a cf5 or even cf10- they are relatively small and can be cleaned fairly easily in a kitchen sink.

However, i know some folks here do CIP ther cf5, 10, etc and have no issues.
To each his own i guess.
If i brewed more, i might invest in a pump for cip. But as is, the time it takes me to clean has really decresed as i use it.

 

[Beholder]

I see a lot of comments and threads over the years of people completely disassembling their fermenters after every use, or every other use. Why so often? I find it hard to believe that commercial breweries pull everything apart after every brew session. Typically they CIP everything with hot cleaning solution, so why wouldnt home brewers do the same. Sure a complete disassemble and deep clean is needed, but that frequent??

I CIP, which has some blind spots due to thermowell etc., so I disassemble the lower portions to blow out funk, but leave upper connections in place and have not disassembled them ever actually... I have suitable head space that nothing touches the them, so never saw a need except for the sani-rinse using the same CIP hardware.

 

[mongoose33]

Here's the one thing you need to know about: look inside the fermenter at the ports. They're recessed and they collect...well, whatever. There's gunk in there from fermentation. You can try to rinse that out, but unless you're running cleaning solution through every one of those, you're not cleaning them.

Further, once you CIP whatever is in those recesses is now full of your cleaning solution, which means you need somehow to rinse that stuff out.

 

[sicktght311]

I'm not saying dont ever disassemble and clean, but wouldnt a rinse with a sprayer and a sponge, drain, followed by a Hot CIP with cleaner, drain and then rinse with clean water and drain, followed by a shop vaccuminging of all ports to remove excess water/cleaning solution, then let to dry, be plenty for at least a few brews (so long as you're sanitizing before every fermentation)?

 

[stevehaun]

I used to make 1 bbl batches and used a 40 gal stout conical. I did use CIP for that but I still removed thermowell and valves to soak. I subsequently downsized to 10 gal batches and bought a CF10. I planned to CIP but quickly found it much faster to clean by hand. YMMV.

 

[brewohio]

I see a lot of comments and threads over the years of people completely disassembling their fermenters after every use, or every other use. Why so often? I find it hard to believe that commercial breweries pull everything apart after every brew session. Typically they CIP everything with hot cleaning solution, so why wouldnt home brewers do the same. Sure a complete disassemble and deep clean is needed, but that frequent??

I will be taking it fully apart to clean because I won't always be filling it right back up. I don't plan to have it sit with all the accessories attached either.

 

[brewohio]

For the people who use the closed pressure transfer kit what sizing is the tubing? I thought I read it's oversized. They don't offer just the tc 1/4 barb fitting without buying the kit. I can get it elsewhere but if the tubing is larger diameter then it may be worth it to me.

In my past setup I would use auto siphon to out post on the keg with vinyl tubing to swivel nut and leave prv open.

 

[SEndorf]

I completely disassemble my CF10 after every use. Everything gets cleaned and disinfected. I even go so far as disinfecting again with Starsan right before I use it again.

I read on probrewers.com how breweries use chemicals to CIP. After posting in a thread I was looking into that process for my CF10 and bright tank, I was told by a probrewer NOT to attempt it since the chemicals they use are too caustic and should not be used in a home brew environment. I took his advice.

My question back to you, why wouldn't you want to disassemble everything and thoroughly clean your fermenter? For me, in the end, it really isn't that time consuming.

^^
Yup...

I didn't bother to get the CIP since I know it wouldn't save me any time. I'm going to completely disassemble, clean and sanitize by hand after every use anyway.
Given the expense and time involved from brew day to first pour, I don't want a sanitation variable to be a factor in a messed up beer.

 

[CodeSection]

For the people who use the closed pressure transfer kit what sizing is the tubing? I thought I read it's oversized. They don't offer just the tc 1/4 barb fitting without buying the kit. I can get it elsewhere but if the tubing is larger diameter then it may be worth it to me.

In my past setup I would use auto siphon to out post on the keg with vinyl tubing to swivel nut and leave prv open.

I had the same question and Katie from Spike Brewing gave me this answer...

"Sorry we missed you on chat! The closed pressure transfer kit uses 5/16" tubing. Let me know if you have any other questions!
Cheers,
Katie"

Here is a link for the TC 1/4" if you need one https://www.morebeer.com/products/15-tc-14-flare-stainless-fitting.html

Good Luck!

 

[Brooothru]

Here's the one thing you need to know about: look inside the fermenter at the ports. They're recessed and they collect...well, whatever. There's gunk in there from fermentation. You can try to rinse that out, but unless you're running cleaning solution through every one of those, you're not cleaning them.

Further, once you CIP whatever is in those recesses is now full of your cleaning solution, which means you need somehow to rinse that stuff out.

Experience has taught me that Mongoose is spot on. A couple of years ago I decided to get off the glass/plastic train and finally invest in stainless steel. I started out with an SS Brewtech Brew Bucket and a Chronical. Game changer. Last summer I ordered a Unitank and just added a glycol chiller. Game changer on steroids.

Cleaning the Brew Bucket and Chronical wasn't much different than cleaning a plastic fermenter, but the Unitank presented some challenges, so I bought a large capacity CIP ball and a portable sump pump capable of delivering the 15 GPM minimum flow rate required. After my first brew session with the Unitank (non-removable lid, but it has an 8" TC ferrule on the top so you get a good view of the inside of the tank) I used a hot water spray to rinse down the insides and remove most of the krausen and crud. Then I sealed off all the openings and filled about 2~3 gallons of hot water and PBW in the tank. The discharge side of the pump fed the CIP ball mounted in a 3" TC on the top of the tank. I connected two return lines (one on the bottom dump port and one to the racking port), joining them with a "T" fitting, to feed the intake side of the pump. I opened the blow-off port valve to equalize any negative pressure vacuum in case the suction from the pump exceeded the discharge through the CIP. Don't want my Baby imploding! Then I fired that bad boy up and had myself a Homebrew.

After 20 minutes or so I used the pump to drain the tank (my aging back ain't even gonna' try lifting that much weight). I popped the top, rinsed again with hot water, drained the tank, added a couple gallons of StarSan solution, fired that bad boy up, and had myself another Homebrew. When that was finished I removed the top TC and the 8" chilling coil. The inside was clean as a whistle. I removed the bottom butterfly valve and the racking port butterfly because, well, that's what you do with valves I'm told, and they, too, were spotless. So, feeling pretty smug, I let everything dry before giving it one final spray of StarSan and buttoning up until the next brew session.

Literally, "wash, rinse, repeat" for the next several brew sessions. Then came the obligatory road trip from Maryland to Florida in the Fall to visit our daughter's family, so no brewing for six weeks. When we got back I needed to get cracking on beers for Thanksgiving and Christmas, not to mention Saturday and Sunday games vegetating in front of the wide screen. So I paid a visit to the LHBS to pick up some essentials and started setting up for my next adventure. Imagine my dismay when the uncorking of my latest toy was met with a faint yet disgusting aroma of 'death' and 'decay.' Everything still looked clean but the smell belied cleanliness. Brew Day was gonna' get delayed until I could get to the bottom of this. Complete disassembly was required.

Staring at the top and working my way down, every fitting and every component got removed, cleaned and sanitized. It wasn't until the last two that the culprit was unveiled. The sample port and the carbonating stone port recesses in the lower part of the cone where the TC fittings attach had impacted build ups of trub and hops material. The impaction was compounded by the fact I had fermented under partial pressure (a great technique IMO) and also spunded under 15 psi/1 bar. The butterfly valves had gotten cleaned by the high velocity flow from the CIP, but the sample port and carb stone recesses were not in that pathway and failed to get cleaned. Plus, you can't even see inside them from the top of the fermenter. The ONLY way to make sure they're clean is to completely disassemble and visually inspect the port from the outside, followed by cleaning and sanitizing of the fitting, ferrule recesses and individual component.

It's not a particularly difficult task, but it is a bit tedious and time consuming. Going forward my cleaning protocols have been altered a bit. No more CIP, rinse and forget. Damn! I KNEW it was too simple. But since I know what parts get cleaned and conversely which areas are in a "CIP shadow" I now have a pretty good idea where to look and where to start when searching for nasties. Also, given how clean I found most of the nooks and crannies to be, I think after a while I'll feel good enough with the CIP's performance that I won't have to completely disassemble after every use. Twenty minutes of CIPing gets 95% of everything cleaner that I could get it without a major investment of time and elbow grease. As long as I feel like I'm getting the last 5% cleaned manually (and as long as the beer doesn't suffer) it's probably a fair trade.

Brooo Brother

 

[Nate R]

I'm not saying dont ever disassemble and clean, but wouldnt a rinse with a sprayer and a sponge, drain, followed by a Hot CIP with cleaner, drain and then rinse with clean water and drain, followed by a shop vaccuminging of all ports to remove excess water/cleaning solution, then let to dry, be plenty for at least a few brews (so long as you're sanitizing before every fermentation)?

That sounds like a lot more work than the way i currently do it

 

[mongoose33]

What I do to clean my CF10 is I remove the sample valve and the dump valve, and put a couple of end caps on those ports. I rinse it down into a bucket then attach a pump to the dump port. I add a couple gallons of HOT water, couple scoops of PBW, and set the thing to cleaning.

Meanwhile, I disassemble the removed valves and put them in a small tub of hot PBW water while the conical is being CIP'd.

After maybe 15-20 minutes I'll then remove the hose from the CIP ball, put it in the sink, and pump all that stuff out down the drain. A couple of shots of rinsing, pump it out, rinse, direct rinse to the recessed ports, pump it out--maybe 5 minutes of that, then I remove the end caps which drains the retained water, then I spray down the inside of the fermenter with Star-San.

Clean. Sanitized.

I remove the valves, rinse them off well, dunk them in Star-San, then reinstall. Done.

Pic of how I do this:

 

[Brooothru]

What I do to clean my CF10 is I remove the sample valve and the dump valve, and put a couple of end caps on those ports. I rinse it down into a bucket then attach a pump to the dump port. I add a couple gallons of HOT water, couple scoops of PBW, and set the thing to cleaning.

Meanwhile, I disassemble the removed valves and put them in a small tub of hot PBW water while the conical is being CIP'd.

After maybe 15-20 minutes I'll then remove the hose from the CIP ball, put it in the sink, and pump all that stuff out down the drain. A couple of shots of rinsing, pump it out, rinse, direct rinse to the recessed ports, pump it out--maybe 5 minutes of that, then I remove the end caps which drains the retained water, then I spray down the inside of the fermenter with Star-San.

Clean. Sanitized.

I remove the valves, rinse them off well, dunk them in Star-San, then reinstall. Done.

Pic of how I do this:

View attachment 662239 View attachment 662240 View attachment 662237 View attachment 662236

I do almost the exact same process, with a few minor differences. The feed line for the pump is two lines "T" d together: one from the dump valve port and one from the racking port. I like you process of capping the TC ports for the sampling port and carb stone port. What I think I might do in the future is remove the sampling valve and carb stone, clean the recesses with a towel and spray/rinse those ports before capping. Then I'll attach the dump valve and racking port return fittings and then CIP. After CIPing for awhile, I'll shut down and swap the TC caps and hoses with the sampling and carb stone ports and CIP again. That way I'll be hitting all the ports while at the same time cleaning the butterfly valves, the sampling valve, and the carb stone.

Win/win.

Brooo Brother

 

[brewohio]

Are you guys sealing up the conical after dry hopping? Adding pressure? Basement is about 64° degrees and I have a small brew mat heating pad wedged between a couple layers of reflectix insulation keeping it between 66-68°. I just dumped the trub and yeast. Then I threw in the dry hops and purged headspace a little. Put about 3 psi head pressure on it and disconnected gas. Any thoughts? Looking to keep it warm for a couple days before kegging. Probably transfer to keg before cold crashing in my keezer. When I get the TC-100 I'll be able to cold crash, carb, then transfer.

 

[jturman35]

I usually shoot for 5-10psi after dry hopping. Sometimes the gas post in the manifold doesn’t seal and I end up with far less.

 

[Nate R]

Are you guys sealing up the conical after dry hopping? Adding pressure? Basement is about 64° degrees and I have a small brew mat heating pad wedged between a couple layers of reflectix insulation keeping it between 66-68°. I just dumped the trub and yeast. Then I threw in the dry hops and purged headspace a little. Put about 3 psi head pressure on it and disconnected gas. Any thoughts? Looking to keep it warm for a couple days before kegging. Probably transfer to keg before cold crashing in my keezer. When I get the TC-100 I'll be able to cold crash, carb, then transfer.

I usually purge with C02 after dey hopping ('cause i aint got a fancy setup like monhoose yet!) But will usually blow it all out- i like to keep all the excess hop aroma, and i usually get a few more points gravity, so i would hate to have to vent that.
My last batch was a hazy ipa, so i actually vented some of the excess gas into my cleaned, sanitized, and c02 purged keg.

 

[Sbe2]

Is there any impact on hop utilization during a dry hop in a conical? I have a cf5 and I watch a good amount of hops go through my sight glass and right to the 2” valve. I am wondering if these hops have any impact? Am I overthinking it? I have a stainless mesh tube that I use sometimes, but a few ounces really pack it tight. I wondering if there is a 4” tc hop spider contraption to keep the hops in contact with a majority of the beer and keep them from dropping to the bottom valve.

 

[jturman35]

Post # 1327 has your answer.

 

[Sbe2]

Post # 1327 has your answer.

Could u post a link. I can’t figure out how to get post numbers on my cell.

 

[NeoBrew]

Could u post a link. I can’t figure out how to get post numbers on my cell.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...nd-best-practices.645440/page-34#post-8759069

 

[CodeSection]

Could u post a link. I can’t figure out how to get post numbers on my cell.

Hmmm. My cell allows me to change pages. Yours doesn't?

 

[Sbe2]

Hmmm. My cell allows me to change pages. Yours doesn't?

Page numbers yes, but I can’t see each posts individual number like on a desktop.

 

[Sbe2]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...nd-best-practices.645440/page-34#post-8759069

The yeast brink is a good idea, also contacting Jaybird about developing a conical hop spider.

 

[CodeSection]

Page numbers yes, but I can’t see each posts individual number like on a desktop.

Try turning your cell phone sideways......

Regular viewing on cell phone.

Sideways viewing on cell phone.

 

[Sbe2]

Try turning your cell phone sideways......

Regular viewing on cell phone.

View attachment 662671

Sideways viewing on cell phone.

View attachment 662674

Haha. I feel like a dumb@$$.

 

[eric19312]

I had same issue with dry hops and so I hooked up my CO2 tank to the dump valve using a 2” barn. I flushed with CO2 then opened the valve and hit the tank with 3 short blasts of gas at about 12 PSI. Did this a few hours after dry hopping and again 24 hours later.

When I dropped hops all I got was a nice blend of hops an yeast, no whole pellets coming out like I saw previously.

 

[augiedoggy]

I see a lot of comments and threads over the years of people completely disassembling their fermenters after every use, or every other use. Why so often? I find it hard to believe that commercial breweries pull everything apart after every brew session. Typically they CIP everything with hot cleaning solution, so why wouldnt home brewers do the same. Sure a complete disassemble and deep clean is needed, but that frequent??

I completely disassemble my CF10 after every use. Everything gets cleaned and disinfected. I even go so far as disinfecting again with Starsan right before I use it again.

I read on probrewers.com how breweries use chemicals to CIP. After posting in a thread I was looking into that process for my CF10 and bright tank, I was told by a probrewer NOT to attempt it since the chemicals they use are too caustic and should not be used in a home brew environment. I took his advice.

My question back to you, why wouldn't you want to disassemble everything and thoroughly clean your fermenter? For me, in the end, it really isn't that time consuming.

to answer this last question, because its simply not needed.. Many breweries just cip with an ank or oxygen based cleaner like PBW and then rinse followed by using an acid as a santizer (Same way sanke kegs which are not disassembled when cleaned or santized btw).

We use pbw and saniclean for cip ourselves. We do not nor have we ever had an issue from not disassembling everything between every use. We do do it from time to time as more of an inspection than anything. If the sanitizer under pressure cant find its way into a microscopic crack than real world use for us has shown neither does the source for infection. We clean and rinse right after use and sanitize directly before use.

BTW those caustic chemicals you mention are the whole point of all that 304 stainless marketing that the homebrewing equipment often advertises... Its true very few homebrewers use them making the whole 304 thing a moot point in the real world of homebrewing equipment.

We choose to not use them ourselves because at 3 bbl they are simply not needed with good cip processes. We have been told we may eventually need them due to beerstone but a stronger pbw and saniclean soak has always removed that for use with minor brushwork in some cases.

If a person wants to tear everything down between each use theres nothing wrong with it.. I mean the process is more likely to prevent the possibility of an infection. Its just a matter for most on whether its a real world risk or not... kind of like never getting on to a plane for fear it might crash to prevent the possibility.. many breweries would see this as unjustified time lost. If you think they all disassemble their butterfly valves sight glasses and barbed fittings each and every time between each use to remove seals and clean the crevices where the seals meet the stainless on the inside your wrong, and tearing down only half the seams and crevices down without doing that kinda defeats the effort, right?

In fact I have yet to see a microbrewery or hear from one on probrewer who even tears their plate chiller down and cleans it manually between each and every brew session and as a person whos torn mine down and cleaned it every so often thats the single worst possible offender if anything. There are discussions on this topic on probrewer if you want to see for yourself.

 

[eric19312]

For me a complete tear down is cheap insurance against difference between a pretty good CIP and a validated CIP backed up by solid QC program. I work in pharmaceutical manufacturing and maybe principles don’t exactly correlate...after all a cleaning failure making beer is never going to put consumers health in danger, more likely an off (maybe ruined) batch. Still tear down of the Spike fermentor is not much work at all.

I’ve looked into what it would take to get to a CIP I would trust without tearing down. First would be a substantial and heat tolerant pump. I like that eBay model Augie pointed out. Also a way to maintain temps during CIP. A RIMS maybe. Then testing, with 100% visual testing over 3 batches. Any smear of Krause on any test would mean starting over. The variables are chemicals/ concentration / temp / agitation / time. I would want to keep bumping one or more of those up till I got a 100% clean fermentor three batches in a row. Then I’d be ok with the process so long as the batch didn’t change much. I’d certainly worry if the batch volume changed. I’d worry if the yeast changed and maybe the grist and dry hops. Probably for these types of changes I’d be ok with 1 tear down and 100% visual inspection.

Maybe this level of GMP is not common in brew pubs and craft breweries but I’d be surprised if you didn’t see all this and more including full microbiology QC testing in macro breweries.

Just my thoughts..I’m a home brewer not a pro.

 

[augiedoggy]

I think this is a subject you wont find much volunteered info on from micro and nanos... Even on the probrewer site the info is scarce but I would have to say it all varies a bit from place to place. I know for a fact though that many smaller breweies do not disassemble their valves and such between each use to manually clean in every crevice. That kind of the point of a butterfly valve over a ball valve where I always used to do just that because of the deadspace inside where nasties grow behind the ball.
At home I removed my valves and cleaned the tc ports but then again at home I wasnt always using BF valves and I wasnt using cip either.
many SSbrewtech users out there are using thier older conicals without disassembling the weldless fittings or ports for the coils in the lid each time and Ive read this from them on here numerous times..

 

[itsnotrequired]

with everything being tc, not very much time at all to take it apart and give everything a soak. also considering how many fewer fittings there are on a homebrew conical compared to a pro fermenter, especially the big ones, there just isn't as much 'stuff' to touch.

 

[CodeSection]

to answer this last question, because its simply not needed.. Many breweries just cip with an ank or oxygen based cleaner like PBW and then rinse followed by using an acid as a santizer (Same way sanke kegs which are not disassembled when cleaned or santized btw).

We use pbw and saniclean for cip ourselves. We do not nor have we ever had an issue from not disassembling everything between every use. We do do it from time to time as more of an inspection than anything. If the sanitizer under pressure cant find its way into a microscopic crack than real world use for us has shown neither does the source for infection. We clean and rinse right after use and sanitize directly before use.

BTW those caustic chemicals you mention are the whole point of all that 304 stainless marketing that the homebrewing equipment often advertises... Its true very few homebrewers use them making the whole 304 thing a moot point in the real world of homebrewing equipment.

We choose to not use them ourselves because at 3 bbl they are simply not needed with good cip processes. We have been told we may eventually need them due to beerstone but a stronger pbw and saniclean soak has always removed that for use with minor brushwork in some cases.

If a person wants to tear everything down between each use theres nothing wrong with it.. I mean the process is more likely to prevent the possibility of an infection. Its just a matter for most on whether its a real world risk or not... kind of like never getting on to a plane for fear it might crash to prevent the possibility.. many breweries would see this as unjustified time lost. If you think they all disassemble their butterfly valves sight glasses and barbed fittings each and every time between each use to remove seals and clean the crevices where the seals meet the stainless on the inside your wrong, and tearing down only half the seams and crevices down without doing that kinda defeats the effort, right?

In fact I have yet to see a microbrewery or hear from one on probrewer who even tears their plate chiller down and cleans it manually between each and every brew session and as a person whos torn mine down and cleaned it every so often thats the single worst possible offender if anything. There are discussions on this topic on probrewer if you want to see for yourself.

I appreciate you posting your experiences and processes as it's nice to have a different perspective from another probrewer. Perhaps the difference between your processes and that of the other probrewer has to do with the size of their brewery.

I would like to clarify a couple of items you wrote.....

....If you think they all disassemble their butterfly valves sight glasses and barbed fittings each and every time between each use to remove seals and clean the crevices where the seals meet the stainless on the inside your (sic) wrong, .....

In fact I have yet to see a microbrewery or hear from one on probrewer who even tears their plate chiller down and cleans it manually between each and every brew session and as a person whos torn mine down and cleaned it every so often thats the single worst possible offender if anything. There are discussions on this topic on probrewer if you want to see for yourself.

I really do not know where you read that I said probrewers disassembled their items. Apparently, you did not read where I read on probrewer.com how breweries use chemicals to CIP as seen in my quote below.

....I read on probrewers.com how breweries use chemicals to CIP. After posting in a thread I was looking into that process for my CF10 and bright tank, I was told by a probrewer NOT to attempt it since the chemicals they use are too caustic and should not be used in a home brew environment. I took his advice.

In the end, you answered my question of "why not...", but in doing so, you wrote statements that I supposedly wrote which simply were not true. In the end, we both said breweries CIP. So again, I do not understand why you made those statements which I did not write.

If you were trying to educate that on a homebrewing scale, CIP would be sufficient, you could have accomplished that without misstating my comments or commenting that I go and check it out on probrewer.com. If you were using the generic "you" or "you're", perhaps you could choose better words so as not to associate those statements when used to the person you are quoting.