Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[Nate R]

Thanks for all the replies! Looks like I kicked a hornets nest. My last 5g batch I had 6oz dry hops, I blame my clogs for not cold crashing long enough and getting the trub layer below the racking arm.

How long are you guys cold crashing IPA’s?

@jturman35 fwiw (and not trying to get in the crossfire above):
Here is my process and i have yielded very clear beer. [Ymmv, this is not a claim of how to do it!]
-overbuild by 0.5 gallons (as mentioned above by someone). Only really need to do this for high dry hops (4 oz or more).
-after primary, dump yeast/trub. Use a 16" length of 1/2" hose. Pull valve very slowly, no more than 2psi
-cold crash for at least 24 hours. As close to 36 as you can get.
-dump again, again with same hose.
-attach carb stone, carb for 24 hours.
-depending on type of beer, i might dump again as i feel (no proof) the carbination can affect particles (this is rare tho- almost never do it).

I think there is a tradeoff involved- how much beer loss vs. how clear of beer you want. Sometimes i only get 4.5 gallons in the keg (give or take) but i like clear beer (well, swmbo likes clear beer, so....)

My hefe's are easy 'cause ALL of it goes into the keg!


If it was a high hop beer i rack from the 1.5" racking port, with no arm.
Otherwise (say 2 oz or less dry hop) i rack right from the 2" port to save beer.
Then, for me, the trick is to keep the keg in my keezer for another 24 hours- even longer is better- and the first pint i pour usually has the last of the particles. From there it is all clear for me.

 

[eric19312]

I turn it down to where the bubbles barely break the surface and oxygenate for 2 minutes (5-gallon batch).

I suspect @yorkeken may have been pushing oxygen faster than this.

According to Spike
"The gas stone works so long as liquid is touching it and gas bubbles can escape to the rest of the tank. Since the racking arm would not inhibit the flow of beer onto the stone, it is perfectly suitable to use in conjunction with the racking arm."

I can see if you push a lot of gas through that stone you could be adding fast enough that you would impede the flow of beer onto the stone but slow and steady should not be an issue.

I'd add that there may be issue with his fill volume. Appears to be filled to barely above the sampling port. I think having the stone under a larger column of beer would increase flow down onto the stone. Any gas that collects in the housing might generate a few of those large bubbles but most will get into the beer.

And while I've been trying to figure this out for a bit now it seems that the fact that the stone can effectively carbonate a full tank of cold beer in under 24 hours indicates it is doing more than putting CO2 at pressure in the headspace above the beer. That is what you would get from swapping a beer out connector onto your gas line and bubbling CO2 into a keg from the bottom of your beer tube. Might be slightly faster than adding it from the gas in post above the head space but I seem to remember reading the improvement doesn't justify the effort in swapping connectors. So if the stone clearly works for carbonation why wouldn't it also work for oxygenation?

One explanation might be that CO2 dissolves more easily into cold beer than O2 dissolves into room temp beer. That does not seem to be the case. According to a table I found https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/diffusion-coefficients-d_1404.html the diffusion coefficient for O2 in 20C water is 2.01x10-5 cm2/s while for CO2 in 10C water the coefficient is 1.26x10-5 cm2/s. The big difference isn't diffusion coefficient...yes oxygen gets into water a little faster than CO2, but the solubility, water can hold much more CO2 than oxygen. That is why you carbonate for hours with one of these stones but are pretty much done oxygenating (according to Spike) in 40 seconds. No more will dissolve into the water because you are at capacity. -- maybe @yorkeken didn't blow in the O2 too fast but it took him too long to get his camera and take the picture and he was already saturated.

 

[eric19312]

I agree with the risk of O2 uptake if a filter gets clogged and needs cleaning mid-transfer.

when you go to clear the filter
1. close the racking port butterfly
2. disconnect your ball lock connector from the keg
3. remove the jar from the line and rinse it out and sanitize
4. reattach the jar
5. open the racking port butterfly
6. flush the line (use that double barrelled QD post or a small screwdriver - the post looks less messy)
7. connect the ball lock connector to the keg and continue filling

repeat steps 1-7 as necessary

There is no opportunity for O2 uptake if you follow these steps

 

[Vale71]

Really? You're going to deride my use of White's information and then use Wyeasts, which part above also refutes your earlier comment? Seriously?

In other strains tested, flocculation was repressed at 77 °F (25 °C) and optimal at 41 °F (5 °C)

Do you even think about what you post before you post it?

You might want to look up the definition of consistent.

And yes, resorting to personal insults is really mature of you.

 

[Nate R]

I suspect @yorkeken may have been pushing oxygen faster than this.

According to Spike
"The gas stone works so long as liquid is touching it and gas bubbles can escape to the rest of the tank. Since the racking arm would not inhibit the flow of beer onto the stone, it is perfectly suitable to use in conjunction with the racking arm."

I can see if you push a lot of gas through that stone you could be adding fast enough that you would impede the flow of beer onto the stone but slow and steady should not be an issue.

I'd add that there may be issue with his fill volume. Appears to be filled to barely above the sampling port. I think having the stone under a larger column of beer would increase flow down onto the stone. Any gas that collects in the housing might generate a few of those large bubbles but most will get into the beer.

And while I've been trying to figure this out for a bit now it seems that the fact that the stone can effectively carbonate a full tank of cold beer in under 24 hours indicates it is doing more than putting CO2 at pressure in the headspace above the beer. That is what you would get from swapping a beer out connector onto your gas line and bubbling CO2 into a keg from the bottom of your beer tube. Might be slightly faster than adding it from the gas in post above the head space but I seem to remember reading the improvement doesn't justify the effort in swapping connectors. So if the stone clearly works for carbonation why wouldn't it also work for oxygenation?

One explanation might be that CO2 dissolves more easily into cold beer than O2 dissolves into room temp beer. That does not seem to be the case. According to a table I found https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/diffusion-coefficients-d_1404.html the diffusion coefficient for O2 in 20C water is 2.01x10-5 cm2/s while for CO2 in 10C water the coefficient is 1.26x10-5 cm2/s. The big difference isn't diffusion coefficient...yes oxygen gets into water a little faster than CO2, but the solubility, water can hold much more CO2 than oxygen. That is why you carbonate for hours with one of these stones but are pretty much done oxygenating (according to Spike) in 40 seconds. No more will dissolve into the water because you are at capacity. -- maybe @yorkeken didn't blow in the O2 too fast but it took him too long to get his camera and take the picture and he was already saturated.

Fwiw... again no science or facts here- all anecdotal from me.

But because the stone needs 4psi just to push into the cf, i moved from red disposable oxy tanks to a real solid (and yes expensive) oxy tank. That alone in my opinion made all the difference.
I can watch the psi gauge while i add oxygen. I have made the best beer yet since getting a real oxy tank.

Buy once cry once as is so much of this darn 'hobby'.

 

[Jag75]

My oxygenater is a big plastic spoon lol.

 

[eric19312]

I don’t have any problem with the red tanks. I use the regulator, heap filter, cut off my old stone, replaced it with a gas in ball lock quick connect. I watch through the 4” hole and just turn the regulator on slowly until I just start to see slight bubbling at surface of the wort.

To be perfectly honest I’ve never been sure oxygenation with pure O2 really makes difference with my process...it falls into one of those easy insurance categories.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Looking for thoughts on using the carb stone for wort oxygenation (not carbonating). Here is a photo displaying the output while sending o2 through the racking port/racking arm (note that I also tried it without the racking ARM attached and experienced the same results). Due to the angle of the installed carb stone, the o2 comes into contact with the shroud around the carb stone and converts the micro bubbles to these large ones before they reach the tank. Is it possible that these nickel/quarter size bubbles are effective in oxygenating the wort? I have my doubts and was looking for other opinions.View attachment 660077

I had the same concerns. I now use the carb stone in the sample port location to aerate and carbonate and use the sample valve on my racking arm. Cheers

 

[Sbe2]

My oxygenater is a big plastic spoon lol.View attachment 660123

If I aim the valve from my BK just right I can hit my thermometer probe which causes lots of splashing. Although, I may have to try your spooning technique.

 

[k-daddy]

I suspect @yorkeken may have been pushing oxygen faster than this.

According to Spike
"The gas stone works so long as liquid is touching it and gas bubbles can escape to the rest of the tank. Since the racking arm would not inhibit the flow of beer onto the stone, it is perfectly suitable to use in conjunction with the racking arm."

I can see if you push a lot of gas through that stone you could be adding fast enough that you would impede the flow of beer onto the stone but slow and steady should not be an issue.

I'd add that there may be issue with his fill volume. Appears to be filled to barely above the sampling port. I think having the stone under a larger column of beer would increase flow down onto the stone. Any gas that collects in the housing might generate a few of those large bubbles but most will get into the beer.

And while I've been trying to figure this out for a bit now it seems that the fact that the stone can effectively carbonate a full tank of cold beer in under 24 hours indicates it is doing more than putting CO2 at pressure in the headspace above the beer. That is what you would get from swapping a beer out connector onto your gas line and bubbling CO2 into a keg from the bottom of your beer tube. Might be slightly faster than adding it from the gas in post above the head space but I seem to remember reading the improvement doesn't justify the effort in swapping connectors. So if the stone clearly works for carbonation why wouldn't it also work for oxygenation?

One explanation might be that CO2 dissolves more easily into cold beer than O2 dissolves into room temp beer. That does not seem to be the case. According to a table I found https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/diffusion-coefficients-d_1404.html the diffusion coefficient for O2 in 20C water is 2.01x10-5 cm2/s while for CO2 in 10C water the coefficient is 1.26x10-5 cm2/s. The big difference isn't diffusion coefficient...yes oxygen gets into water a little faster than CO2, but the solubility, water can hold much more CO2 than oxygen. That is why you carbonate for hours with one of these stones but are pretty much done oxygenating (according to Spike) in 40 seconds. No more will dissolve into the water because you are at capacity. -- maybe @yorkeken didn't blow in the O2 too fast but it took him too long to get his camera and take the picture and he was already saturated.

All great points. I'm going to try again to see what happens. Just to explain my process further, that photo is a frame grab from a video I shot. Could have sworn the racking arm & carb stone were fully saturated as bubbles were discharging once I turned the arm to the "up" position (like filling a submerged bottle). I waited for the bubbles to subside and then connected the (red) o2 tank to the post. I have a plastic flow meter and was injecting the o2 @ .5L/min. which I've always had success with when using the aeration wand/stone. Your reply has raised some doubts and since I did this experiment this past summer, my memory is less clear.

 

[eric19312]

I had the same concerns. I now use the carb stone in the sample port location to aerate and carbonate and use the sample valve on my racking arm. Cheers

Do you use the racking arm in that location?

 

[eric19312]

Ok I’ll contribute a “don’t do this” to the thread.

Don’t add a big slug of dry hop pellets and then immediately remember you forgot to dump the yeast before dry hopping and proceed to start dumping the yeast. Little comes out then it stops. Open the valve wide open and see a couple pellets. Pulled most of my hops into dump plumbing where they expanded into a firm blockage.

Noticeable lack of dry hop character in the batch. Check
Messy cleanup. Check

Don’t do that.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Do you use the racking arm in that location?

I have the racking arm in the normal racking port. Not the best picture to show it it

 

[eric19312]

I have the racking arm in the normal racking port. Not the best picture to show it itView attachment 660214

So you added another 1.5” butterfly valve?

 

[jdr01]

I have been using this. https://www.vacmotion.com/Details.aspx?Cat=InlineFilters&Id=2846
I m away so can not send photo of my setup but easy to figure out.

 

[Blazinlow86]

So you added another 1.5” butterfly valve?

Yes but I've never actually used it as I just leave the stone attached the whole way thru. I figured it could be useful if I wanted to switch the configution when full though. Cheers

 

[Gozie Boy]

All great points. I'm going to try again to see what happens. Just to explain my process further, that photo is a frame grab from a video I shot. Could have sworn the racking arm & carb stone were fully saturated as bubbles were discharging once I turned the arm to the "up" position (like filling a submerged bottle). I waited for the bubbles to subside and then connected the (red) o2 tank to the post. I have a plastic flow meter and was injecting the o2 @ .5L/min. which I've always had success with when using the aeration wand/stone. Your reply has raised some doubts and since I did this experiment this past summer, my memory is less clear.

I had the same concern about the Spike carb stone, that it was a larger micron size (2 micron) than I wanted for oxygenation purposes (0.5 micron). So I went straight to the wand with 0.5 stone, and a pure O2 tank (proper tank, not the small red box store variety) with O2 regulator (that indicates volume). I swirl the wand in the wort through the top 1.5" TC fitting while oxygenating, usually at 1L/min x 2 minutes for a 10 gallon batch, then pitch my yeast/starter through this same opening. After pitching, I install the gas manifold onto this TC, attach a gas QD with a 4' open-ended gas line onto the gas post of the manifold, and run the open end into the sanitizer bucket for blow off. After the ferm has about ended, I replace the "blow off QD" with my CO2 supply QD to the gas post and set the CO2 regulator at about 3 psi, all the way through cold crashing (so I don't have to worry about imploding the fermenter as the temp drops). This has worked perfectly, and I have never worried about this whole process again.

 

[eric19312]

Wanted to test this myself.

I filled my CF15 to 17 gallons of water and hooked up the carbonation stone two ways. First "with racking arm" is the way recommended by Spike. The racking arm is installed in the racking port, followed by the 1.5" butterfly valve, followed by the carb stone. I slowly dialed up my O2 cylinder (regular red cylinder with regulator and HEPA filter) until I got bubbling at the surface and then got my phone and shot a short movie.

I then set it up as described by @Blazinlow86 (version using the valve) - put my sample valve on the racking port just to close it off, put my butterfly on the sample port, with the carbstone on that. Without adjusting the regulator on the O2 cylinder I reattached it to the carb stone and shot the second movie.

To my eye the bubbles I can see are smaller without having the carb stone work from inside the racking arm. I have no way to tell if they are any different down near the stone itself. I think I will give it a try leaving the carb stone attached to the sample port for the duration of the fermentation.

 

[Nate R]

Yes but I've never actually used it as I just leave the stone attached the whole way thru. I figured it could be useful if I wanted to switch the configution when full though. Cheers

Do you use the same stone from oxygenating then to carbing? Do you clean between the two uses?

 

[Blazinlow86]

Do you use the same stone from oxygenating then to carbing? Do you clean between the two uses?

Yes I use the spike stone from start to finish without removing it andI leave the valve open at all times. I do boil the carb stone when I wash the fermentor though. Fwiw I never noticed any issues with the carb stone on the racking arm but figured I'd try it this other way. I always pitch on the higher side too which might make a difference. Cheers

 

[NeoBrew]

Yes I use the spike stone from start to finish without removing it andI leave the valve open at all times. I do boil the carb stone when I wash the fermentor though. Fwiw I never noticed any issues with the carb stone on the racking arm but figured I'd try it this other way. I always pitch on the higher side too which might make a difference. Cheers

I use the same stone all the way through as well. After I'm done oxygenating I push a little CO2 through the stone so there is not oxygen in there when I use CO2 later in the fermentation process.

 

[Nate R]

Well good to know. I always remove it and boil after each use.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I use the same stone all the way through as well. After I'm done oxygenating I push a little CO2 through the stone so there is not oxygen in there when I use CO2 later in the fermentation process.

Definitely can't hurt. Cheers

 

[brewohio]

I'm waiting for my CF5 to arrive Tuesday. I just ordered the conical as I wanted to decide which accessories I wanted and buy as needed. What accessories did you start with or purchase after using it. Is the racking arm a must have? I want to be able to transfer carbonated beer into a keg so I know I want to get the TC-100 bundle. I just built a window ac glycol chiller. Seems like you could easily spend twice as much in accessories.

 

[Nate R]

I'm waiting for my CF5 to arrive Tuesday. I just ordered the conical as I wanted to decide which accessories I wanted and buy as needed. What accessories did you start with or purchase after using it. Is the racking arm a must have? I want to be able to transfer carbonated beer into a keg so I know I want to get the TC-100 bundle. I just built a window ac glycol chiller. Seems like you could easily spend twice as much in accessories.

Best advice i can give you- watch out for shipping charges. If you order less than $100 you pay. I wish i would have gotten the heater with my temo control and also extra quick connectors for the tubing on the glycol chiller side.
Imo, must haves:
-pressure kit
-carb stone
-temp control

Racking arms can also be found 3rd party.

 

[mongoose33]

I'm waiting for my CF5 to arrive Tuesday. I just ordered the conical as I wanted to decide which accessories I wanted and buy as needed. What accessories did you start with or purchase after using it. Is the racking arm a must have? I want to be able to transfer carbonated beer into a keg so I know I want to get the TC-100 bundle. I just built a window ac glycol chiller. Seems like you could easily spend twice as much in accessories.

I have a sight glass on mine; I would buy it again.

I have the racking arm, would buy it again. If you don't have one you'll have a bunch of gunk in the recess inside the fermenter.

I have the pressure manifold kit; you really, really will want that, not only to monitor pressure but also for adding CO2 and even to be able to drop dry hops in without adding oxygen.

I have the carb stone but have never used it. I oxygenate with a long wand right through the top, and when it comes to carbonating....well, I close up the fermenter with about 5-7 points of gravity to go, and it self-carbs similarly to bottle conditioning. It doesn't carb it all the way, but it's about 2/3 of the way. I transfer to a keg (pressure transfer, and the beauty of that is if the keg is purged, you can do it with no oxygen contamination), and then it's either a burst of CO2 in the keg, or just set and forget for a few days.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I have a sight glass on mine; I would buy it again.

I have the racking arm, would buy it again. If you don't have one you'll have a bunch of gunk in the recess inside the fermenter.

I have the pressure manifold kit; you really, really will want that, not only to monitor pressure but also for adding CO2 and even to be able to drop dry hops in without adding oxygen.

I have the carb stone but have never used it. I oxygenate with a long wand right through the top, and when it comes to carbonating....well, I close up the fermenter with about 5-7 points of gravity to go, and it self-carbs similarly to bottle conditioning. It doesn't carb it all the way, but it's about 2/3 of the way. I transfer to a keg (pressure transfer, and the beauty of that is if the keg is purged, you can do it with no oxygen contamination), and then it's either a burst of CO2 in the keg, or just set and forget for a few days.

Remind me why you choose not to use the carb stone? It's definitely not required but I can't see why if you have it already you wouldn't use it. It's one of my favorite parts about having a unitank. Cheers

 

[mongoose33]

Remind me why you choose not to use the carb stone? It's definitely not required but I can't see why if you have it already you wouldn't use it. It's one of my favorite parts about having a unitank. Cheers

There are a few reasons. The first time I used my CF10 I didn't attach the carb stone, reasoning I could still oxygenate the old way (wand), and not wanting to complicate my life any more than necessary the first time. In essence, build the process up without too many variables.

I have a long-handled wand for oxygenating, works well, so I just used that. I've continued to use it as it works, and reduces the cleaning load by 1 carb stone.

I also didn't want to give up a port, though I suppose I could have added a butterfly valve to the sampling port. I use the sampling valve from time to time (I use a TILT, but the backup is nice).

The second reason was carbing; I already knew I could carb beer the old-fashioned way, i.e., set and forget, or burst carb, so it isn't necessary to use a carb stone to do that. Not that I don't have anything else in my setup that's not necessary, heck, the CF10 isn't necessary.

I suppose if I left the beer in the CF10 for 3 weeks (enough to condition most beers I make), then I could carb it in the unitank. But mostly I figured I'd be leaving it in the keg to condition anyway. As it happens, I moved toward doing LODO brewing and knew I could use the CF10 to spund, i.e., seal it up and let it finish carbonating the beer ala bottle conditioning. It doesn't get it all the way carbed, but I'll end up with about 7psi after I crash it, which means carbing is much faster in the keg as I'm about 2/3 of the way there.

The last reason why I've not used it to oxygenate is I am not sure about rates of oxygen flow and how long and so on. When I use the wand I stir it around; using the carb stone would necessitate learning a new operation (and yeah, I could have inquired on HBT), and what I have works. This last reason is probably the weakest.


So, I have to turn the question around to you: why do you use it?

**********

None of this is to suggest that those using the Carb Stone are wrong, or silly, or otherwise. Not very much different than why people choose a RIMS or a HERMS, the type of fermenter they use, how they make a starter, etc. etc. etc. As long as the end result is good, the choices made along the way matter little, unless they contribute directly to the beer's quality. And it doesn't really matter whether one uses a carb stone or not; both methods work.

Most experienced home brewers here on HBT seem to settle into what I think of as "putz" mode. I sure am. I like putzing around with this, trying to find more efficient ways to do things, faster, easier, better. And what might be that for me might or might not be that way for you. Depends on resources, space, access to electricity, water....all that stuff.

Maybe I should see if the mods would change my name from mongoose33 to....putz.

 

[cubsfan16]

I was hoping for some advice on a dry hop situation. Last night I dry hopped 6oz into a 5gal batch after dropping yeast. As I poured in the hops I saw them all float down and settle in my sight glass. I was wondering if anyone has hooked up CO2 to the dump valve and push a few psi to churn/blow the hops back out? I believe I saw someone that considered it earlier in the thread but didn't do it. Thanks

 

[CodeSection]

....Most experienced home brewers here on HBT seem to settle into what I think of as "putz" mode. I sure am. I like putzing around with this, trying to find more efficient ways to do things, faster, easier, better. And what might be that for me might or might not be that way for you. Depends on resources, space, access to electricity, water....all that stuff.

Maybe I should see if the mods would change my name from mongoose33 to....putz.

Nooooo.....I realize you are thinking of the verb meaning. However, the noun meaning (putz) refers to "a stupid or worthless person" which you are not.

 

[CodeSection]

I was hoping for some advice on a dry hop situation. Last night I dry hopped 6oz into a 5gal batch after dropping yeast. As I poured in the hops I saw them all float down and settle in my sight glass. I was wondering if anyone has hooked up CO2 to the dump valve and push a few psi to churn/blow the hops back out? I believe I saw someone that considered it earlier in the thread but didn't do it. Thanks

People use their yeast brink to inject the mushed hops into the fermenter through the dump valve all the time. I would do it now rather than later since there is no real trub at the moment. The hops are mush now and I suspect will not drop as quickly as the pellets did when you first added them.

 

[Blazinlow86]

There are a few reasons. The first time I used my CF10 I didn't attach the carb stone, reasoning I could still oxygenate the old way (wand), and not wanting to complicate my life any more than necessary the first time. In essence, build the process up without too many variables.

I have a long-handled wand for oxygenating, works well, so I just used that. I've continued to use it as it works, and reduces the cleaning load by 1 carb stone.

I also didn't want to give up a port, though I suppose I could have added a butterfly valve to the sampling port. I use the sampling valve from time to time (I use a TILT, but the backup is nice).

The second reason was carbing; I already knew I could carb beer the old-fashioned way, i.e., set and forget, or burst carb, so it isn't necessary to use a carb stone to do that. Not that I don't have anything else in my setup that's not necessary, heck, the CF10 isn't necessary.

I suppose if I left the beer in the CF10 for 3 weeks (enough to condition most beers I make), then I could carb it in the unitank. But mostly I figured I'd be leaving it in the keg to condition anyway. As it happens, I moved toward doing LODO brewing and knew I could use the CF10 to spund, i.e., seal it up and let it finish carbonating the beer ala bottle conditioning. It doesn't get it all the way carbed, but I'll end up with about 7psi after I crash it, which means carbing is much faster in the keg as I'm about 2/3 of the way there.

The last reason why I've not used it to oxygenate is I am not sure about rates of oxygen flow and how long and so on. When I use the wand I stir it around; using the carb stone would necessitate learning a new operation (and yeah, I could have inquired on HBT), and what I have works. This last reason is probably the weakest.


So, I have to turn the question around to you: why do you use it?

**********

None of this is to suggest that those using the Carb Stone are wrong, or silly, or otherwise. Not very much different than why people choose a RIMS or a HERMS, the type of fermenter they use, how they make a starter, etc. etc. etc. As long as the end result is good, the choices made along the way matter little, unless they contribute directly to the beer's quality. And it doesn't really matter whether one uses a carb stone or not; both methods work.

Most experienced home brewers here on HBT seem to settle into what I think of as "putz" mode. I sure am. I like putzing around with this, trying to find more efficient ways to do things, faster, easier, better. And what might be that for me might or might not be that way for you. Depends on resources, space, access to electricity, water....all that stuff.

Maybe I should see if the mods would change my name from mongoose33 to....putz.

I just find it easier to carbonate all my beer in one day then rack to the kegs to speed up and simplify the process. I was just curious if there was something you didn't like about doing it that way. Cheers

 

[cubsfan16]

People use their yeast brink to inject the mushed hops into the fermenter through the dump valve all the time. I would do it now rather than later since there is no real trub at the moment. The hops are mush now and I suspect will not drop as quickly as the pellets did when you first added them.

Yeah, I forgot about the NorCal yeast brinks people were using. I'll give this a go tonight.

 

[Nate R]

There are a few reasons. The first time I used my CF10 I didn't attach the carb stone, reasoning I could still oxygenate the old way (wand), and not wanting to complicate my life any more than necessary the first time. In essence, build the process up without too many variables.

I have a long-handled wand for oxygenating, works well, so I just used that. I've continued to use it as it works, and reduces the cleaning load by 1 carb stone.

I also didn't want to give up a port, though I suppose I could have added a butterfly valve to the sampling port. I use the sampling valve from time to time (I use a TILT, but the backup is nice).

The second reason was carbing; I already knew I could carb beer the old-fashioned way, i.e., set and forget, or burst carb, so it isn't necessary to use a carb stone to do that. Not that I don't have anything else in my setup that's not necessary, heck, the CF10 isn't necessary.

I suppose if I left the beer in the CF10 for 3 weeks (enough to condition most beers I make), then I could carb it in the unitank. But mostly I figured I'd be leaving it in the keg to condition anyway. As it happens, I moved toward doing LODO brewing and knew I could use the CF10 to spund, i.e., seal it up and let it finish carbonating the beer ala bottle conditioning. It doesn't get it all the way carbed, but I'll end up with about 7psi after I crash it, which means carbing is much faster in the keg as I'm about 2/3 of the way there.

The last reason why I've not used it to oxygenate is I am not sure about rates of oxygen flow and how long and so on. When I use the wand I stir it around; using the carb stone would necessitate learning a new operation (and yeah, I could have inquired on HBT), and what I have works. This last reason is probably the weakest.


So, I have to turn the question around to you: why do you use it?

**********

None of this is to suggest that those using the Carb Stone are wrong, or silly, or otherwise. Not very much different than why people choose a RIMS or a HERMS, the type of fermenter they use, how they make a starter, etc. etc. etc. As long as the end result is good, the choices made along the way matter little, unless they contribute directly to the beer's quality. And it doesn't really matter whether one uses a carb stone or not; both methods work.

Most experienced home brewers here on HBT seem to settle into what I think of as "putz" mode. I sure am. I like putzing around with this, trying to find more efficient ways to do things, faster, easier, better. And what might be that for me might or might not be that way for you. Depends on resources, space, access to electricity, water....all that stuff.

Maybe I should see if the mods would change my name from mongoose33 to....putz.

Flipping the tables, eh???
Well, i too also have a wand- i find it harder (or- takes longer) to clean then my stone. My stone comes off the cf5, gets a rinse, gets a gas blow into the stat san bucket, then gets boiled for 5 mins or so. Left upside down to drain, until star san for next brew. Wand took me longer as it like 2.5' long.

I waited to buy the carb stone but wish i had not.
My beers have been the best ever since i started using the carb stone.
Imo (i know this will start a controvesry!) I think it takes a lot more oxygen than i was giving via the red tanks. The pressure is just not enough with the stone. Since getting a real oxy tank, and regulator, i can dial in exact amount. I have found a solid blast at 5 or so for 2 minutes or so is good.

Also, i like having almost fully carbed beers in 24 hours. By using the 20# external tank and not the 5# serving tank for my keezer i can save $$$ on gas.

 

[logdrum]

Here’s a solution for the free floating temp probe cable:

1/2” stainless close nipple into a 1/2” x 1/4” stainless bell reducer with a grommet I had laying around.

 

[CodeSection]

Here’s a solution for the free floating temp probe cable:
View attachment 660561
1/2” stainless close nipple into a 1/2” x 1/4” stainless bell reducer with a grommet I had laying around.

That beats my tape!

 

[mongoose33]

I just find it easier to carbonate all my beer in one day then rack to the kegs to speed up and simplify the process. I was just curious if there was something you didn't like about doing it that way. Cheers

I can't say there's anything I don't like about it because I've never used it. But I might, just for kicks, since there are a number of you using it and swearing by it.

 

[mongoose33]

Flipping the tables, eh???
Well, i too also have a wand- i find it harder (or- takes longer) to clean then my stone. My stone comes off the cf5, gets a rinse, gets a gas blow into the stat san bucket, then gets boiled for 5 mins or so. Left upside down to drain, until star san for next brew. Wand took me longer as it like 2.5' long.

Here's what I do with my wand--can't imagine it would be faster any other way:

I boil about a half-liter of RO water in a flask, and dunk the stone end of the wand in there to sanitize. I previously will have wiped down the shaft of the wand, so all I do is Star-San the wand itself. Ready to go. I dip the end of the vinyl tubing in the hot water to soften it and push it on the end of the wand.

I do the wand thing to oxygenate, then pull it out and wipe off (paper towel) anything on the wand. I dip it in the water again and blow some of the O2 though it to clear the stone, pull it out, and I'm done. Wipe off the wand and store it.

Your process is one of the reasons I was reticent to use it--I knew it would take more time and effort to clean it.

But with either method, I'm sure the beer is good.

 

[sleev-les]

That beats my tape!

I plug the therm well with some paper towel and it holds the probe in place. Been working great so far haha

I also am curious why Spike provides a racking arm with the Flex Plus, but not the CF. I have one of each for different applications, but thought it was interesting.

 

[jturman35]

I’m not sure what all the hype is with the carb stone? Am I missing something? Like others I just oxygenate using a wand and oxygen tank right before pitching.

I started fermenting all of my NEIPA’s under 3-5psi. I’m soft crashing one right now and it’s at 13psi.

My must haves.

Tri manifold with gauge. Use adjustable PRV
Sight glass
Closed Transfer kit
Racking arm helps