Spa Panel Wiring Question

[carlk47]

Hey gang, I have a question about wiring a spa panel in a 4-wire in -> 3-wire out config(2 hots, 1 ground out). In the pic below it shows the neutral and ground bars with a wire running between them(connected)? Is this correct or am I misinterpreting it?

 

[brew_ny]

In the pic below it shows the neutral and ground bars with a wire running between them(connected)? Is this correct or am I misinterpreting it?

the ground and the neutral are connected in your diagram

 

[The10mmKid]

That's how I'd wire it.

I'd prefer you find a separate ground in the vicinity. Maybe a copper water line if in the basement. Or if outside, the utility ground, cable TV and/or phone ground.
(of course you will be separating that neutral-ground connection in the spa panel)

'da Kid

 

[jeffmeh]

If you have 4 wires running in, why not have 4 lines running out, even if you are not going to use the neutral? It certainly gives you the flexibility to derive a 120v circuit later if you so desire.

For 4 in, 4 out and for 3 in, 4 out P-J has posted photo diagrams.

 

[carlk47]

hey guys, what I'm setting up is a GFCI spa panel in my basement and then running wire to my kitchen(wiring up an outlet)to plug in a 240V induction burner. I may not necessarily need the GFCI but I'd prefer to be safer by having it. I will power this by plugging the spa panel into a 4 wire dryer outlet, and the induction burner has a 3 wire(2 hot, 1 ground) plug.

I've checked my breaker box and it doesn't appear the ground and neutral bars are connected. So I wasn't sure if I should connect them within the spa panel.

Hope I've explained this well enough.

 

[brew_ny]

I've checked my breaker box and it doesn't appear the ground and neutral bars are connected. So I wasn't sure if I should connect them within the spa panel.

they may not have a connecting strap between the if they are bonded to the panel and in that case the are joined by the panel

S_M

 

[jeffmeh]

To expand on my earlier post, if it were up to me I would run 4 wire out of the spa panel, and cap off the neutral if your induction burner doesn't need it. Then you will have a GFCI "extension cord" capable of supporting both 240v and 120v, if you ever want to take advantage of it. The difference in price and time to build is very little.

 

[carlk47]

To expand on my earlier post, if it were up to me I would run 4 wire out of the spa panel, and cap off the neutral if your induction burner doesn't need it. Then you will have a GFCI "extension cord" capable of supporting both 240v and 120v, if you ever want to take advantage of it. The difference in price and time to build is very little.

Yea that makes sense. I'm only actually running the power about 10 feet as my breaker panel in the basement is directly under my kitchen counter where I will be running the power to. So I figure about 10 feet at the most when I run it up through the floor and put in an outlet.

 

[carlk47]

they may not have a connecting strap between the if they are bonded to the panel and in that case the are joined by the panel

S_M

I double checked through the breaker box and the neutral appears to be floating(not bonded or connected to ground). however I just had a thought.. we live in a townhouse and my guess is the main panel to the building(s) has the neutral bonded. I'll have to take a look at it.

 

[carlk47]

OK looks like I found my answer.. reading up a bit on main panels/sub panels it appears only the MAIN panel needs to be bonded. Beyond that all sub panels should have the neutral and ground separate. Thanks guys for the responses.

 

[brew_ny]

OK looks like I found my answer.. reading up a bit on main panels/sub panels it appears only the MAIN panel needs to be bonded. Beyond that all sub panels should have the neutral and ground separate. Thanks guys for the responses.

make sense, then your main panel is a sub panel

of the buildings main panel ?

all the best

S_M

 

[carlk47]

make sense, then your main panel is a sub panel

of the buildings main panel ?

all the best

S_M

yep exactly! Learned something new today.. cool

 

[brew_ny]

so you are basically going make a sub panel that plugs into an outlet the will have a GFI beaker in it to run a wire for an outlet in your kitchen for an induction burner?


just wanted to be sure I am understanding what you are building

S_M

 

[carlk47]

so you are basically going make a sub panel that plugs into an outlet the will have a GFI beaker in it to run a wire for an outlet in your kitchen for an induction burner?


just wanted to be sure I am understanding what you are building

S_M

Yes, you got it. I am going to plug the spa panel into my dryer outlet(with a 4-wire dryer cord), then run either 10/2 or 10/3 romex from the spa panel up to the kitchen where I will install a junction box with a NEMA 6-20 outlet.

On brew day I'll just have to unplug the dryer and plug in the spa panel, then plug the induction burner in upstairs in the kitchen.

 

[brew_ny]

Yes, you got it. I am going to plug the spa panel into my dryer outlet(with a 4-wire dryer cord), then run either 10/2 or 10/3 romex from the spa panel up to the kitchen where I will install a junction box with a NEMA 6-20 outlet.

On brew day I'll just have to unplug the dryer and plug in the spa panel, then plug the induction burner in upstairs in the kitchen.

if you are using 220 maybe even 110 you could use 12 but it is never a bad thing to go a size bigger in my mind

shows like you got it figured out

good luck with your build

S_M

 

[The10mmKid]

if you are using 220 maybe even 110 you could use 12 but it is never a bad thing to go a size bigger in my mind

shows like you got it figured out

good luck with your build

S_M

Hold off on suggesting a wire size Brew_NY. I cannot find anywhere the OP mentioning the size of the double GFCI SPA breaker.

The dryer outlet should be on a 30A breaker, so we need to size ALL the branch wire to that.

Guess we can assume the GFCI will function only as ground fault protection NOT overload . . . . . is that what you're thinking carl?

'da Kid

 

[brew_ny]

Hold off on suggesting a wire size Brew_NY. I cannot find anywhere the OP mentioning the size of the double GFCI SPA breaker.

good point my bad, I saw it was a ten foot run so 10 might be a bit of overkill

but as I did state going a size bigger is not a bad thing

S_M

 

[carlk47]

Hold off on suggesting a wire size Brew_NY. I cannot find anywhere the OP mentioning the size of the double GFCI SPA breaker.

The dryer outlet should be on a 30A breaker, so we need to size ALL the branch wire to that.

Guess we can assume the GFCI will function only as ground fault protection NOT overload . . . . . is that what you're thinking carl?

'da Kid

yep exactly! Using the spa panel for the gfci, otherwise I would just wire it direct. It's a bit more money, but rather be safe then sorry when I have a 10 gal kettle of hot wort able to overflow onto the induction burner at any time.. :cross:

yea on the wire gauge I was figuring just run it 10 gauge so I don't have to worry either way

 

[jeffmeh]

If you are permanently installing the wiring up to the kitchen, then go with Romex. If this is going to be a portable GFCI panel, then you may want to consider running 10/4 SOOW or SJOOW, so you can take it with you.

 

[carlk47]

Yea I had thought about making it portable, but honestly don't think ill brew anywhere else but the kitchen in the immediate future. So I'll run Romeo for now and if ever want to make it portable I'll just pickup some SO cord and rewire it real quick.