sorbate laced cider

[JimRausch]

I missed the boat this year. When fresh, non-treated cider was available back in the beginning of September, I wasn't ready to do my usual batch of cider/graf. Now that I'm ready, the only cider I can find has been treated with sorbate. I can get pasteurized, no sorbate apple juice though.
So after looking at multiple old threads, here's my plan:
I'll use two gallons of the cider and two gallons of the juice, hoping that the dilution will help. I'll also be adding about 1.5G wort to make a graf, so still more dilution there. And I'll pitch a chit load of yeast.
Unless someone tells me before tomorrow(10/15) that my plan won't work, I'm going for it. I'll post results when they become apparent.
Wish me luck.

 

[Yooper]

It's really hard to overcome sorbate. I mean, the whole point of adding sorbate is to inhibit fermentation and keep the cider from spoiling (fermenting).

You could try diluting but I doubt that will work very well. A few people have been successful in overcoming sorbate by making a huge starter with the yeast, so the yeast don't have to reproduce but there could very well be a flavor impact from the stressed yeast, if it works.

 

[JimRausch]

Yeah I know. Read the posts. Kicking myself in the butt- should have bought it when it was available, maybe froze it??
I'm thinking of pitching 3 packets of rehydrated dry yeast since that doesn't have to reproduce as much.

 

[JimRausch]

Actually, I just had what I think is a better idea. I'm planning on adding 1.5G wort to make a graf anyways, so what I'll do is start that first and add the cider 2 days later. Essentially I'll be creating a massive starter.

 

[Maylar]

Why not just use juice? Lots of people do.

 

[JimRausch]

Why not just use juice? Lots of people do.

Yeah, I know. I prefer the taste of fresh cider vs. pasteurized/filtered apple juice. And late-season cider tastes even better to me, probably because up here they are using macs and macouns rather than the early season idas and delicious. Granted, not much of the original flavor comes through once it's finished fermenting. And my plan is to use 1/2 cider and 1/2 juice.
So,can you say 'waffle'?

 

[Maylar]

I've been using cider from the local orchard that has their own mill. Pasteurized but no preservatives. Now that you mention it, I have found a difference in flavor across the season. Wonderful things, apples.

I have my first batch of grocery store apple juice in primary now, I'm curious to find out what the difference will be.

Good luck with the ferment...

 

[JimRausch]

Update: Checked the SG today and it's 1.014. The munton's yeast that I pitched has a predicted 70% attenuation, so I'm better than that(calculated OG 1.068). I think I'll wait until this weekend to rack it for cold conditioning.

 

[Yooper]

Update: Checked the SG today and it's 1.014. The munton's yeast that I pitched has a predicted 70% attenuation, so I'm better than that(calculated OG 1.068). I think I'll wait until this weekend to rack it for cold conditioning.

Good that it got going! Attenuation rates don't apply with cider, though, as it's almost all simple sugars. Sometimes ciders will go all the way to .990, but often to 1.000, depending on yeast strains.

 

[JimRausch]

Good that it got going! Attenuation rates don't apply with cider, though, as it's almost all simple sugars. Sometimes ciders will go all the way to .990, but often to 1.000, depending on yeast strains.

That makes sense- thanks Yooper. 1.014 might sound wicked high for a cider, but I started with 2.5G of a wort at 1.065 that I mashed at 155* to hopefully get more unfermentable sugars. My graf last year finished at 1.008, and I'm sure this one will finish higher. Goal was to get a sweeter cider without backsweetening. So far, so good........

 

[phug]

Unless you carmeliZe the apple juice I'm pretty sure you won't affect the gravity that way. Graf finishes higher because of the maltose and what not.

With beer your mash temp will determine how the starch gets converted to what length of sugars. In cider there's really no starch to convert so mashing won't have the impact you think it will. Now if you make wort for your graff and mash high for an unfermentable wort then that would do what you're thinking.


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[JimRausch]

Unless you carmeliZe the apple juice I'm pretty sure you won't affect the gravity that way. Graf finishes higher because of the maltose and what not.

With beer your mash temp will determine how the starch gets converted to what length of sugars. In cider there's really no starch to convert so mashing won't have the impact you think it will. Now if you make wort for your graff and mash high for an unfermentable wort then that would do what you're thinking.


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Yes that's what I did- produced 2.5G of wort, started that fermenting, and added the 3.5G cider a couple days later. The cider was not heated.

 

[phug]

Sorry Jim,

I didn't read well enough. I would blame it on drinking, but I was at work at the time, so, no dice.

 

[JimRausch]

Sorry Jim,

I didn't read well enough. I would blame it on drinking, but I was at work at the time, so, no dice.

No worries

 

[JimRausch]

Update: After racking for 3 week cold conditioning, today I bottled the batch with 1 can AJC.
FG=1.014, and the uncarbonated flavor was perfect- slightly sweet, apple flavored with just enough tartness to balance. I plan to pasteurize when carbonation level reaches what I'm looking for.

 

[JimRausch]

OK- final update:
I cooler pasteurized on 11/29(6 days after bottling), then moved bottles out to my cold garage. Bottled 1/2 gallon of it in one of the apple juice bottles and opened that one on Thanksgiving. The rest are in standard beer bottles.
To my mind, this turned out perfect- exactly what I was looking for. Good carbonation level with a 1 finger head that lasts. Very clear orange-red color. Slightly sweet, retained a decent amount of the apple flavor with a nice balancing tartness from the cranberries.
***So, I successfully dodged the Sorbate bullet***