Some help with my Saison brew

[beerhoppitus]

So Im thinking of brewing a Saison this weekend. I tried to put together a recipe from scratch so if anyone could chime in and let me know how it sounds and if im within the boundaries of the style Id appreciate it.

9# Belgian Pilsner malt
2# German Munich
½# Rye malt
½# Belgian Aromatic Malt
½# Belgian Special B
½# White wheat
1 # Cara Pils
1oz German Spalt @ 60 mins
1oz German Hersbrucker 15mins
Paradise Seeds @ flame out
Coriander Seeds @ Flame out
Wyeast 3711 French Saison


Im thinking about adding some sugar to this as well, maybe 1 cup at flame out? I've heard it gives the beer more of a dry taste, not completely sure about that thou.

Also, more of a technique question. When I done my boil after i chill the wort, I generally strain the wort as it goes into the fermeter, I do this to get the hops out and to aerate the wort. Doing this with this brew would I also strain out the Paradise/Coriander seeds? Would I be better served adding them to the fermenter? Or just not straining this batch since Im using so few hops? Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.


Thanks in advance

 

[Oldsock]

Are you trying to make something that matches the saison “style” or just a beer inspired by the wide variety of saisons available?

I think the best saison recipes are pretty simple. McKenzie's has won three of the last four GABF golds for saison with a recipe that is 74% Pils, 18% Rye malt, and 8% sugar with a couple European hop additions. Saison Dupont is 100% Pils. I’d probably drop the carapils (since it adds body), Special B (unless you want that raisiny flavor), and aromatic (you’ll get a malty aroma from the Munich).

3711 is a great strain, it will make for a very dry beer with or without the sugar. Spices aren’t inappropriate in a saison, but the yeast provides most of the spicy character. If you haven’t used 3711 before I’d drop the spices. If you use them, straining out the spices is fine, the heat will quickly extract most of their flavors.

Hope that helps, good luck.

 

[KyleWolf]

I agree with Oldsock. Unless you are dead set on that raisin flavor, I would drop the special B and carapils, also, it might take you out of the color guidelines (but who needs stinkin guidelines anyways ).

I also agree that spices are not needed with the 3711. You will get enough from the yeast. I personally use WLP568, a saison and ale blend. The spices are a bit subdued but you get down to terminal gravity faster without the long ramping time. But 3711 is the gold standard (unless you want to culture the yeast from some dupont bottles, if you did, no one would blame you lol).

And this is just a question about your recipe. What is the thought behind using both wheat and rye malt? With only 1/2lb of each, they will most likely be completely hidden.

If you add sugar, I recommend adding it about 1/2 through primary. It will allow the yeasties to chew through most of the malt before chewing on the easy simple sugars (I am also a fan of using honey as my simple sugar).

I freakin love brewing my saison recipe so I hope yours turns out well!

 

[beerhoppitus]

Hey Thanks for the response guys. I researched quite a few saison recipes and tried to find common characteristics and then tie in why ive brewed with before and like. not set on the raisiny flavor so im probably going to drop the Special B and the aromatic since i was using that for ...well... aroma but as stated above the munich would seem provide that. As for the rye malt i figured that would give a nice hint of spiciness. The wheat i figured would add a little sweetness as ive heard many saison yeasts finish very dry. neither of the above i wanted to overpower the other flavors. or be very apparent beyond slight complexity. Carapils, also not completely set on that, i usually just add it out of habit to increase head retention.


Sugar through the 1/2 was through the primary is a good idea.

Also, anyone have any issues with the 3711 yeast? i read certain accounts of it gettting stuck? anyone of that?


Thanks again for the feed back

 

[KyleWolf]

personally you won't get any of the "sweetness" or "spiciness" from the wheat or rye malt at only a 1/2lb (maybe if it was flaked rye and/or wheat) so I would choose one or the other.

3711 tends to stall around 1.030-1.020. In order to chew up the last gravity points and get it below 1.010, you have to boost the temp to approx. 80F. It is a common characteristic of most siason yeasts.

 

[beerhoppitus]

@ KyleWolf: With the yeast would I benefit from taking it to ~80+ degrees initially or let it ferment at ~70 then step it up to 80 once it stalls?

 

[BtotheG]

From my experience with 3711, I've never had any problems with it stalling out above .010. It's dried beers out with no problems when I've fermented in the 60 and 70s. I fermented a batch of saison above 85 once, but I bottle conditioned it with Orval dregs so I'm not sure how the 3711 affected the flavor. It's honestly kind of a monster.

 

[Veinman]

From my experience with 3711, I've never had any problems with it stalling out above .010. It's dried beers out with no problems when I've fermented in the 60 and 70s. I fermented a batch of saison above 85 once, but I bottle conditioned it with Orval dregs so I'm not sure how the 3711 affected the flavor. It's honestly kind of a monster.

From my 1 batch with 3711 and reading everyone else's experiences I agree with this. I just finished brewing a simple Saison with it, pitched it at 70 and left it alone for 5 days, in that time it went from 1.044 to 1.004. It doesn't seem to have near the staaling problems or super high temperature requirements of Belgian Saision #3724.

 

[Sheldon]

I am looking for a winning saison recipe, can someone post McKenzie's that is referenced.

thanks,

Sheldon

 

[heywatchthis]

I've had trouble with 3724 stalling out, but never 3711. It ALWAYS ferments out dry, but I do tend to add some heat to it.

 

[MBasile]

When getting a recipe for mine I was going to go with the one straight from Jamil, but due to my inability to follow directions I went with one based on Jamil's recipe. Here is what I ended up brewing:

5.5 gal batch
70% brewhouse efficiency, jumped up to 80% on this batch
OG:1.066

9.5# belgian piner
.75# white wheat
.75# munich

1 pound of table sugar (thrown in at 15ish minutes because I forgot it at the start of the boil).

2oz hallertauer at 60
.7oz hallertauer at 5

Mashed at 146ish

Fermenting with wLP568 Saison Blend. Yesterday (less than 48 hours after pitching) it was down to 1.018 and had some nice fruity esters with some subtle spice. Spice in this style should come from proper fermentation, not actual spices.

 

[KyleWolf]

I've had trouble with 3724 stalling out, but never 3711. It ALWAYS ferments out dry, but I do tend to add some heat to it.

I apologize I think Heywatchthis is right. I was thinking of 3724 instead of 3711.

Regardless though, most saisons say to ramp up. You want to begin fermentation around 68 like normal and as fermentation begins to slow, start ramping the temperature up a degree or two a day until you hit about 80.

 

[Oldsock]

I am looking for a winning saison recipe, can someone post McKenzie's that is referenced.

thanks,

Sheldon

Just submitted an article to BYO on American Saisons featuring McKenzie’s with tips from Stillwater, Pretty Things, St. Somewhere, Upright etc…

Here is the recipe

OG = 1.057
30 IBUs

Ingredients
74% Pils
18% Rye malt
8% Soft Blond Candi Sugar

Mash at 145 F for 60 minutes.

90 min boil
Bitter with Hallertau Tradition @ 60 min
1/3 oz each of Hallertau Tradition and EKG @ 15/5 min

Ferment with White Labs WLP566 starting around 60 F and rising into the mid-80s F.

They’ve won with three different treatments of the same recipe, the most recent was barrel aged and beautifully funky.

 

[beerhoppitus]

Ok, as a follow up to my original. wyeast 3711. fermented in a 70 degree room w a brewbelt on the vessel. 7 days exactly it took me from 1.050 to 1.000. this yeast = AWESOME. once I bottle it and get it carbed n cold ill post how it tasted and the final recipe I used.

 

[ChillWill]

My Saison 'inspired' brew. Don't be fooled by the whacky hop schedule, it's hoppy but in very smooth kind of way and the hop flavour quickly fades to the yeast flavours on each sip. It's going to be something I have on hand at all times I think, people I know who've tried it love it.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/new-world-saison-236779/