Witbier & Brett Saison Split batch

[Shenanigans]

Hi All,

I got a vial of Brettanomyces bruxellensis WLP650 and was thinking of what to brew with it.

I'm all for making things simple and as I am already planning a Witbier for the spring, I was wondering if the grain bill from a Witbier would be a good base for brewing a brett saison?

The Witbier would be:

60% Belgian Pilsner Malt
35% Flaked Wheat
5% Faked Oats
One 60 min addition of Styrian Celia to about 20 IBUs
Some corriander seeds and sweet orange peel

I would make a 10 gallon batch of that and ferment 5 gallons with WLP400 Witbier Yeast.
I have brwewed this several times before and it always turns out good.

Then the other 5 gallons I would just change the yeast and work with Belgian Saison WLP665 and add some Brettanomyces bruxellensis WLP650.

Would the simple Witbier malt bill, low hops and corriander and orange work well for the Brett Saison?
I never used any brett before but it sounds good to me.
I'm just wondering if anything might clash or if the malt bill would be too simple and the Brett would totally take over the flavor, which could be good or bad.

Thanks for your input

 

[hottpeper13]

Typically bret beers use no more then 3-5 IBU's. I killed the bret in my solara barrel with too many hops. If you can bitter the batch to 5 IBU's and make a hop tea or use ismorised hop oil to add before fermentation. Maybe boil a gallon of wort in a separate kettle and hop that.

 

[hottpeper13]

Forgot, my solara make up beer is a wit with 50% barley malt and 50% wheat. The wheat is 50/50 flaked /malt. The bready notes come thru the bret

 

[Shenanigans]

Typically bret beers use no more then 3-5 IBU's. I killed the bret in my solara barrel with too many hops. If you can bitter the batch to 5 IBU's and make a hop tea or use ismorised hop oil to add before fermentation. Maybe boil a gallon of wort in a separate kettle and hop that.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
I'm not sure how sensitive WLP650 is to hop bitterness.
It's supposed to come from Orval and that is over 30 IBUs so maybe it's not a sensitive as some other strains.
Plus from this old article I read years ago (some recipies are still active here ) recipe #4 uses WLP650 and it also has approx 30 IBUs
https://www.popularmechanics.com/home/how-to/g920/10-award-winning-home-brew-recipes/

 

[mashpaddled]

Typically bret beers use no more then 3-5 IBU's. I killed the bret in my solara barrel with too many hops. If you can bitter the batch to 5 IBU's and make a hop tea or use ismorised hop oil to add before fermentation. Maybe boil a gallon of wort in a separate kettle and hop that.

What? No. Brett isn't affected by hops. This is entirely incorrect.

Look at brett IPAs which are north of 60 IBUs.

 

[mashpaddled]

I think the recipe is fine both ways. You could even use the witbier yeast in both batches. You'll lose all the sacc character to brett flavor development.

You could use the witbier recipe for both parts as well if you want. Personally I think brett beers without a fair amount of bittering or acidity are flabby and miss their potential. I tend to hop brett beers like APAs or IPAs with 30-60 IBUs and some late hop additions. The bitterness will mellow out but the tannins from the hops will add structure. Brett will both preserve some hop character and manipulate others.

 

[dmtaylor]

This experiment is an excellent idea. Do it. Enjoy both.

 

[hottpeper13]

Then what took out the bret in my barrel? In the last batch I could only get the sharp acidity of lacto, not that it's bad but I'm missing the pineapple and tropical fruit from the last 3 batches.
Maybe it's just run its course and I need to do a reset.

 

[Shenanigans]

I think the recipe is fine both ways. You could even use the witbier yeast in both batches. You'll lose all the sacc character to brett flavor development.

You could use the witbier recipe for both parts as well if you want. Personally I think brett beers without a fair amount of bittering or acidity are flabby and miss their potential. I tend to hop brett beers like APAs or IPAs with 30-60 IBUs and some late hop additions. The bitterness will mellow out but the tannins from the hops will add structure. Brett will both preserve some hop character and manipulate others.

I still need to read up a bit on WLP650 and generally on 100% Brett v mixed fermentation and fermentation times/lengths.
I got the American Sour Beers book by Michael Tonsmeire as a present for Christmas 2021 but still need to read it
Also some internet research needed.

As I plan on brewing this next month I will probably keep it simple for now and do like in my original post.
I'll make a starter with the brett and keep some for more experimenting later in the year when I'm a bit more up-to-speed on the possibilities.
I still might split off a gallon or two and though add a hop tea to see the difference.

 

[Shenanigans]

This experiment is an excellent idea. Do it. Enjoy both.

I will do, thanks

 

[Shenanigans]

Well I brewed this about 10 days ago now.
For the brett half I copitched the WLP650 with Safale BE 134 saison yeast instead of WLP665.
OG was 1.049 and it's now at 1.004 fermented at 23oC.
I'll transfer it to a glass carboy on the weekend and leave it for 6 months before bottling, hope that will be long enough in a 18oC basement.

The other half, also fermented at 23oC is at 1.008 so if it's stable on the weekend it wil bottle it.
It was a total sulphur bomb for a few days, slowly getting better now.
Hope it's gone before I bottle it.
I might actually bump it up to 25 deg to blow some of it off.

 

[Shenanigans]

Can't believe it's been 6 months already. Kee's like reminded me. I must take a sample tomorrow and see if it's time to bottle it.

 

[hottpeper13]

I thought this split batch was a great idea so I did an 11 gal batch of wit,put 5.25 gal on Lallamade Wit and the other on TYB Saison II. I ferment on the low side so the saison was kinda weak so I put 7 oz of mango Artisan in and took it to a club meeting and it was enjoyed by all. Waiting on space for the wit.

 

[Shenanigans]

Can't believe it's been 6 months already. Kee's like reminded me. I must take a sample tomorrow and see if it's time to bottle it.

I took a sample a few days ago.
It tastes fairly funky but not too overpowering.
Does the funk perception increase with carbonation, like hop flavour?
It's down to 0.096 from 1.049 which is almost 7%.
Should hopefully be no risk of bottle bombs by now but I'll calculate about 2.5 volumes of CO2 when I bottle on the weekend.