sodium benzoate in juice?

[jon]

I found a source of inexpensive cider (3.78/gal at local walmart) and it has potassium sorbate and sodium benzoate in it. is it possible to brew cider with this juice, or will the preservatives kill the yeast and the fermentation?

thanks,
jon

 

[BargainFittings]

Both are preservatives designed to prevent fermentation and spoilage. I would not buy it.

 

[jcobbs]

My Wal-Mart carries at least 3 of brands of juice in that price range. It should be possible to get some without those preservatives. From what I've read it is possible to make up a good yeast starter and just overwhelm the preservatives in the juice, but why risk it if you don't have to? But if you have no other option it can be done--just passing on what I've read so no guarantees.

 

[wreckinball9]

i recently got cider with preservatives to fully ferment, but it produced a really stinky sulfury product.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/fermenting-cider-preservatives-130000/
might take a long time to be drinkable, my guess is it never will be.

if you cant find real fresh cider without preservatives then you will probably have to make due with Musslemans's cider (basically just cloudy apple juice, doesnt taste like cider) from walmart - $4/gal. or Motts or Walmart brand AJ etc.

 

[jon]

I had some that was sulfury a long time back, it clears up after 6 months or so of conditioning... not exactly what I want to be messing with. I want to brew and drink it NOW!... not next year. I may give it a try anyway, just to see what happens. but thanks for the replies.

 

[jon]

I have also seen that when kegging, instead of bottle carbonating, you can purge the stuff by carbonating it and then pushing more carbonation through, and the CO2 will take the sulfur smell with it...

 

[jon]

by the way, this looked to be real cider in a jug type of thing, not the crappy mussleman juice. but I haven't tried it yet for drinking before brewing either. If I take the plunge, I'll get back to you guys and let you know how it turns out. I'd rather just wait and spend the extra $5 on the better stuff...

 

[CvilleKevin]

+1 on spending the extra $5 on the better stuff

I've fermented three different gallon batches of juice with potassium sorbate in it They all fermented out, but tasted like crap. The sulfury smell was the first thing you noticed and it got worse from there. Potassium sorbate inhibits yeast reproduction. Old yeast dont get replaced by new yeast during the ferment. Instead they die off until only the zombie yeasts remain. If you try it, dont do more than a gallon.

There are apple orchards in Cumberland - hopefully they had a good year and you can find some of that stuff this season. This time of year Whole Foods and other natural food and produce stores ought to be getting some sort of fresh juice, even in places that are not usually apple country. I've done 8 gallons total from national brand store bought juice. A few were drinkable - Whole Foods, Orchard Valley. They still werent close to fresh juice, in season.

 

[jcobbs]

Hey jon, I see you're in Alabama too--we may have the same stuff in our Wal-Marts. Have you seen the cider that they keep chilled in the produce section? Forgot the name of it. I have a jug of Musselman's in primary right now, but I'm thinking of trying that other. I looked at it but didn't see any preservatives.

 

[jon]

they sometimes have zeiglers, also has preservatives IIRC... didn't see anything the last time, but wasn't looking that hard. the kroger occasionally has some stuff that is totally preservative free when it is in season, but I haven't seen it yet this year.

 

[jcobbs]

Next time I'm in WallyWorld I'll try to look at the chilled cider and make a note of the name, and also check the label for preservatives. It comes in "milk jug" type jugs.

 

[jon]

that's how this stuff was, but I think because of the sodium benzoate, they could keep it unrefrigerated.

 

[spriggan486]

I found some preservative free cider at walmart today.

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

I have also seen that when kegging, instead of bottle carbonating, you can purge the stuff by carbonating it and then pushing more carbonation through, and the CO2 will take the sulfur smell with it...

Now this is something I will put to the test.:rockin:
I learn something new everyday. Thanks.

 

[Killer_Robot]

I didn't have any sulfury problems when fermenting cider with potassium sorbate, and it fermented out fine: I did use a starter and yeast nutrient, however. One problem I did have was that it seemed to kill the yeast eventually since it never carbonated. If I tried that again I might add some fresh yeast at bottling. Other than that, it fermented out really dry and still needs some aging, but I think I can blame the champagne yeast I used for that.

 

[jon]

I didn't have any sulfury problems when fermenting cider with potassium sorbate, and it fermented out fine: I did use a starter and yeast nutrient, however. One problem I did have was that it seemed to kill the yeast eventually since it never carbonated. If I tried that again I might add some fresh yeast at bottling. Other than that, it fermented out really dry and still needs some aging, but I think I can blame the champagne yeast I used for that.

my amateur guess as to why it wouldn't carbonate is that you let it ferment totally dry and all your yeast died from lack of food along the way... the stuff I have read shows that people have used sulfites for hundreds of years to kill the wild yeast on grapes/cider, and the instructions on the campden tablets show the sulfite content in the water pretty much goes away in 24 hours or so. I don't know if the sorbate goes away or persists, but if your stuff fermented dry, I wouldn't think it mattered.

sodium benzoate is a different beast from the other two, and I guess I'll just have to try and see what happens.

anyone know if the sulfury smell in cider is from distressed yeast with not enough nutrient etc? I seem to remember reading that somewhere. maybe the preservatives just make it even harder on the yeast, since when fermenting straight cider they are already lacking many of the amino acids, etc. that they need for healthy growth...

I was looking at this juice originally as an ingredient for a Graff variant, so maybe the addition of the malt (good yeast food), etc. will make it work out just fine?