So...You Want to Breed Your Own Hops.

[alane1]

Are these from the "wild" plants or from cultivars?

They're not wild, a lot of them were sourced through the internet. I'll have no idea what their lineage is until I've made my own crosses.

 

[PapaBearJay]

Well, I stand corrected. Female flowers on a first-year plant. You win guys.

In other news...


Found this the other day.


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[alane1]

Just an update, one of the seedlings is producing some nice cones. I might even have enough to make some beer!!! I know they probably wont have the same alphas as a mature plant but I'm still curious to see what they'll taste like.

 

[nagmay]

Here's a peek at one of the Cascade crosses:

 

[PapaBearJay]

Here's a peek at one of the Cascade crosses:

How many times can I like this??


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[alane1]

Here's a peek at one of the Cascade crosses:

With the light behind it almost looks angelic.

 

[DarkCoder]

Ok, I was feeling some sort of pressure to put my own pictures....

They are all first year plants.

XCAS003 - Open pollination Cascade

XCAS002 - Open pollination Cascade

WBC1 - Wild plant from Vancouver, Canada

 

[DarkCoder]

My UK seedling and my (only) Slovakian plant are starting to turn their burrs into cones, so more pictures in a couple of weeks.

 

[nagmay]

Oh... I almost forgot to post this close up of a cone from that plant.

 

[nagmay]

I guess it is also a good time to mention: out of over 40 seedlings bred from feminized pollen, all but 4 are covered with only cones/burrs (90% female). The other 10% started with male flowers, but each now has a mixture if male & female flowers...

So, breeding with feminized pollen seems to be possible - however, it may result in a higher percentage of hermaphroditic plants.

The "father" in this experiment was Magnum. The crosses in my yard are:

Cascade x Magnum
Chinook x Magnum
Sterling x Magnum

I am also working on a second generation. Several varieties of commercial hops have been successfully pollinated from the male flowers.

 

[DarkCoder]

I guess it is also a good time to mention: out of over 40 seedlings bred from feminized pollen, all but 4 are covered with only cones/burrs (90% female). The other 10% started with male flowers, but each now has a mixture if male & female flowers...

So, breeding with feminized pollen seems to be possible - however, it may result in a higher percentage of hermaphroditic plants.

Some plants have a kind of protection to prevent self-pollination... maybe it's the case for hop plants ? If, for example, you have an entire field of Cascade and some of them goes hermie, maybe this pollen cannot pollinate other Cascade plants, because they are "all the same plant" (clone), making this pollen look sterile. Just a thought...

 

[nagmay]

Yesterday way beautiful. Spent some time out in the yard replacing the hops that showed hermaphroditic tendencies. Many of these are now covered with female flowers, but I have to start culling somewhere.

Attached you can see the female flowers along with the (now dried out) male flowers.

Also check out the size of these rhizomes. Some were really hard to fully dig out. They all started from seed last winter.

 

[nagmay]

And here is one of the most promising new plants.

It is covered with large, heavy cones. The largest ones have an elongated torpedo shape and are overflowing with neon yellow lupulin. Being a first year, it is probably not yet reflecting the full aroma... but it already has a strong citrus/spicy scent.

 

[nagmay]

I have also been updating a "family tree" chart for the seedlings. It's hard to find accurate information on some of the commercial varieties, so let me know if anything looks off. Full version over on Gliffy >>

 

[PapaBearJay]

I have also been updating a "family tree" chart for the seedlings. It's hard to find accurate information on some of the commercial varieties, so let me know if anything looks off. Full version over on Gliffy >>

What are you using for pedigree imaging? Is gliffy actually doing that, or is that just a photo upload site?

 

[nagmay]

Nothing fancy. Just drawing it by hand in Gliffy. The link is to the published version, which should reflect updates as I make them.

 

[nagmay]

18 of the new plants have produced significant amounts of cones in their first year. Wet weight ranged from 0.5 to over 39oz per plant.

• Hop Breeding, 2014 Results

For comparison purposes I decided to pick, sort, and catalog all the cones at once. No doubt this means that some were picked too early, and others too late. The wet/dry weight percentile should help to calculate a more optimal picking time for each variety. Keep in mind that these are young plants, many with seeded cones. This means that the cone size, shape, yield and bitterness is only an indication of what a mature plant might produce. This will help us decide which plants to cull and which to keep.

My goal is to choose 5-6 of these plants to continue with for next year. Please let me know if you have any input. I will add more info to the page as I compare the bitterness/flavor of the crop.

 

[B-Hoppy]

Very nice job! Have you screened them for disease tolerance yet?

 

[nagmay]

Have you screened them for disease tolerance yet?

That's step will start next spring. I don't really want to introduce mildew to the hop yard directly. The current plan is to transplant cuttings to another location for disease testing.

I would appreciate any guidance on judging the tolerance. Should I plant some known varieties for comparison?

 

[PapaBearJay]

That's step will start next spring. I don't really want to introduce mildew to the hop yard directly. The current plan is to transplant cuttings to another location for disease testing.

I would appreciate any guidance on judging the tolerance. Should I plant some known varieties for comparison?

Yes, generally you would include 'check' varieties in your studies. Both positive and negative controls when possible. That way you can tell if it's you, or the disease.

It would also be a good idea to inoculate several places (consistency) in the field for proper scoring of disease tolerance.


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[B-Hoppy]

I would appreciate any guidance on judging the tolerance. Should I plant some known varieties for comparison?

Not as polished an approach as PBJ, but when I see a spike (downy), I take it and use it like a feather duster on all the little ones. Out of about 20 seedlings this year only one has shown absolutely no response and maybe 3-4 have shown some minimal lesions on some of the leaves with no distorted growth at any of the growing points. All the others are gone.

 

[DarkCoder]

Geeeeeeee !! I harvest my seeded cones yesterday. Over 200 seeds so far. Very time consuming (... I must admit that the Imperial IPA was not helping me to go faster). It was a yellowy / oily / smelly fingers festival !

I still have around 40 cones to go through...

 

[PapaBearJay]

Geeeeeeee !! I harvest my seeded cones yesterday. Over 200 seeds so far. Very time consuming (... I must admit that the Imperial IPA was not helping me to go faster). It was a yellowy / oily / smelly fingers festival !

I still have around 40 cones to go through...

I will have a bunch of seeded cones, but they may primarily be open-pollinated thus far.

I've been working on harvest for the past few weeks, as I've been busy lately, of the un-pollinated varieties and I wanted to get them before they went for too long. (SWMBO said she wouldn't mind though, she's sick of the "hops".)

I have had two O.P. collections so far, both of which I am super-excited about, though I'm hoping that they passed some meaningful traits on. I have a third that I'm interested in, just because I hadn't been expecting there to be any seeds, but there were when I checked.

I will approach it this way though, the named variety pollinations will each be separated based on the crosses, and the three separate OPs I have already collected will be separated, but the ones that I have yet to harvest will not be harvested individually. They will be lumped together, for creation of the next population.


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[PapaBearJay]

Before anyone claims mistreatment, these were harvested over the past few days from the wild hops I found several months ago. I found that there were indeed many female plants around and will probably be making several rounds to get as many cones as possible.

Though I don't have any close-ups yet, I should be happy with the haul in seeds as well.


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[PapaBearJay]

Everywhere I turn, there were more females. I couldn't believe it, it was like a gold mine of hops.


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[DarkCoder]

View attachment 225661View attachment 225662

Everywhere I turn, there were more females. I couldn't believe it, it was like a gold mine of hops.


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What a waste of cones !! :cross:

Hope that they are full of seeds at least.

 

[PapaBearJay]

What a waste of cones !! :cross:



Hope that they are full of seeds at least.

Part of me wishes I had made it sooner, the other says, "Nah, get those seeds!"


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[PapaBearJay]

Another haul from the site. This time with some usable cones. More on aroma characteristics later. Still working on a way to mass sort for seed, which may just end up being a colander at this point..


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[PapaBearJay]

The first picture is part of what I sifted through this evening, though I guess there is still plenty of cleaning left to do.

The second picture is seed that dropped from the cones originally sitting on the door screen. Merely just collecting there from the dried cones.

The third picture is a pile of macerated cones the I sifted through 1/2" wire mesh tonight. I plan on having a secondary 1/4" inch wire mesh, and a tertiary screen if I can find a reasonably smaller size for a decent price. As much as I love sitting with a colander to do it, I'd like to have a much simpler system in place, especially for when I start having random O.P. seed drop from my own plants.

Depending on how quickly I can process this pile, I'll update with an estimated quantity.

Also, for the sake of ease I lumped EVERYTHING that I collected from this site together. I had originally planned for some separation, but that's not going to happen.

I'll begin an overwintering bed in the next couple of weeks, as I still have many seedlings in pots right now. I just finished the last harvest from my vegetable garden today, so I will be prepping for the winter.


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[VonRunkel]

I just want to say that I love the scientific approach you guys have used in this study. I really hope you guys get something good from all this work. Every time o try and germinate seeds I get nothing but an shattered hopes and dreams... But this thread has renewed my interest. Next time i will try doomed of the techniques you guys have used.

I do have a question though... What do you do with all the culls? It makes me sad to think that you are ripping them up and throwing them away, especially if they produce not horrible cones. Why not send them out into the wild? Let some other home brewer happen upon them

 

[PapaBearJay]

I just want to say that I love the scientific approach you guys have used in this study. I really hope you guys get something good from all this work. Every time o try and germinate seeds I get nothing but an shattered hopes and dreams... But this thread has renewed my interest. Next time i will try doomed of the techniques you guys have used.



I do have a question though... What do you do with all the culls? It makes me sad to think that you are ripping them up and throwing them away, especially if they produce not horrible cones. Why not send them out into the wild? Let some other home brewer happen upon them

VR,

I believe it was pointed out in another thread, but the issue arises when introducing a potentially invasive plant into an ecosystem that would not normally possess such individuals. I am all for biodiversity, as many if not all breeding programs look to introgress novel traits from wild relatives, but sometimes seeds or other plant parts carry pathogens or disease with them and then I would be introducing that into that environment from which it can then spread.

While I take great care in the things that I do, one is never positive of the repercussions but I try to reduce my impact.

Yes, I do believe it is a great shame to see many plants extinguished during the progression of breeding or through crop improvement, but remember that even in a natural system that several factors including selection are taking place. We as humans are just increasing the speed by which it occurs.

Other view points are welcome, I have many thoughts on the subject.


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[VonRunkel]

That is a really good point, and I never thought of it from that perspective. Thanks.

I will definately keep that in mind once my breeding program kicks off (if I can ever get these things to germinate).

 

[PapaBearJay]

That is a really good point, and I never thought of it from that perspective. Thanks.

I will definately keep that in mind once my breeding program kicks off (if I can ever get these things to germinate).

How many seeds are you starting with? Are you trying seeds that you collected from wild plants, or ones you purchased from online vendors?

What steps are you taking to germinate the seeds?

Also, what's your interest in plant breeding and what focus would you like to have?



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[VonRunkel]

I was basing my growing on all the other plants and flowers I have grown where germination is pretty high so I was only planting a few... and I wasn't doing a cold stratification... so essentially I was going about it all wrong. So that's fun.

I do plan on following the steps you guys have laid out and hopefuly getting some results. I have generally been using seeds I find in my hops so my diversity is pretty small. I would like to look into the vendors, but I think you (PBJ) warned about them not having verifiable stock...

I love watching things grow. I love the idea of having a unique house hop that I can brew with and share. I am not looking to breed the next big thing, just something that will be my own... ya know?

 

[PapaBearJay]

I was basing my growing on all the other plants and flowers I have grown where germination is pretty high so I was only planting a few... and I wasn't doing a cold stratification... so essentially I was going about it all wrong. So that's fun.

I do plan on following the steps you guys have laid out and hopefuly getting some results. I have generally been using seeds I find in my hops so my diversity is pretty small. I would like to look into the vendors, but I think you (PBJ) warned about them not having verifiable stock...

I love watching things grow. I love the idea of having a unique house hop that I can brew with and share. I am not looking to breed the next big thing, just something that will be my own... ya know?

I understand, and I think it's a worthwhile approach.

In terms of diversity, you're talking about an organism that is highly diverse. Nagmay began demonstrating it with his pedigree chart, but if you look at the wide array of cultivars used there is quite a bit. I believe there has been potential bottleneck events in breeding, which is why I have an interest in screening wild materials for use.

A main bottleneck event is the use of Northern Brewer, Brewer's Gold, Bullion, and landrace varieties as the main founders for currently used cultivars. You might end up tracing back several generations to find them, but few cultivars are derived directly from wild crosses (having just mentioned 2 of them).

I think their use hasn't been fully explored, and more work should be placed on collecting and identifying new materials.


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[VonRunkel]

I agree completely, and I have been searching for wildlings for a few years. I found one, but it didn't transplant all that well. Currently waiting on some new cuttings to root... But I think the grown from seed avenue is way cooler than 'I found this little guy struggling for life out on the reef' approach.

 

[DarkCoder]

But I think the grown from seed avenue is way cooler than 'I found this little guy struggling for life out on the reef' approach.

But you're saving time with this "little guy on the reef": he has already prove that he can survive the environnement and its diseases.

 

[VonRunkel]

Oh, I know. But I want them both... I will have my cake and eat it too.

 

[PapaBearJay]

But you're saving time with this "little guy on the reef": he has already prove that he can survive the environnement and its diseases.

DC, it is not proven that the little fella can survive disease. The disease must be present, and the environment must be conducive to its growth. If the disease is able to develop, then you have a susceptible host. If you know the disease is present, and the environment has been conducive to disease, but there is no development, then you can say that there is potential resistance.

Which again, is part of the reasoning behind introducing potentially diseased materials, not only in native ecosystems but also across borders.

The risk may seem small, but the impact can be quite large.



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[DarkCoder]

DC, it is not proven that the little fella can survive disease. The disease must be present, and the environment must be conducive to its growth. If the disease is able to develop, then you have a susceptible host. If you know the disease is present, and the environment has been conducive to disease, but there is no development, then you can say that there is potential resistance.

Which again, is part of the reasoning behind introducing potentially diseased materials, not only in native ecosystems but also across borders.

The risk may seem small, but the impact can be quite large.



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My post was saying "the environnement and its diseases".

I do agree that you cannot assume a resistance to a specific disease just because the plant did not show any signs of it. But, because there is no such thing as a diseases free environnement except maybe in labs, you can assume that wathever pathogens/pests are around, the wild plant is resistant or tolerant to it (plant is alive, right?). And wathever the whims of nature were, the plant has survived. That's what I meant.

When you start from seeds (even seeds from wild plants), you have to go through all that process by yourself and sometimes protect a plant that would'nt have made it in the wild.

Wild plants may not have the "brewing qualities" that you are looking for, but they certainly have the "surviving qualities" (of their environment/location) that you are looking for.

That's my opinion and I respect it !