So what score in a contest would you consider disappointing?

[befus]

I could understand being shocked or confused by a 33, when in reality 33 is a respectable score in BJCP competitions. Sounds like you knew those high scores were inflated.

Edit: And regardless of the score, I would be furious and emailing the competition director if I got that top score sheet. I'd rather have a mediocre score with honest helpful feedback than a very high score that is useless to me.

You are correct. That judge was non certified, but 'experienced' (drinking beer I'd guess). The other score sheets were by a certified judge, the brewmaster of the brewery, and the last I can't recall at the moment. In any case all the sheets were scored in the mid to upper 40's. Guess I should have quit while I was ahead .

 

[TopherM]

And if you do keep entering competitions, and keep getting 40s, it might be time to open a brewery! The majority of professional brews don't even get 40s!

Check out the "Classic Examples" page on the BJCP site. This was a blind judging of commercial beers by Gordan Strong, who's generally considered to be the best of the best judges (he got like a 98 on the BJCP exam).

All those "mass production" haters will note that beers like Miller Lite, Genesee and PBR will outrank any beer out there in their category.

You'll also note that beers like the Dogfishead 90 Minute IPA scored in 30s...because it lacks some of the style details!

Anyway, these are the standards, so if you want to win a competition, go try some of these and you'll know what to aim for:

http://www.bjcp.org/course/ClassicStyles.php

 

[Yooper]

Obviously, that's a beer to be proud of and a great score.

I like working with other more experienced BJCP judges when I judge, although in most "local" competitions, I would be the ranking judge.

I loved the NHC final round, when I was the lowest ranking judge in our whole category! Gordon Strong was at my table, and the rest were National judges except for me and another guy who was certified but had a ton of judging points. I have enough judging points, but am not interested in taking another test to become a national judge. Anyway, I learn something each and every time I am seated with a great higher-ranking judge and that's one thing that is great in the bigger competitions.

While working alongside a pro brewer to judge is also great, they just aren't usually in the same place with judging according to style guidelines.

I have a good friend who owns a successful nano, and all of his beers are fantastic. But they are all too "big" to be what they are- his APA is something like 8%! His brown about that as well. Anyway, while his beers are fantastic and I highly recommend them (available only in Wisconsin), and he has a fantastic palate, he isn't great at judging by BJCP guidelines. If he loves it, he wants to score it high. We've been seated at the same table, and had strong disagreements on scoring once or twice as he thinks a great tasting APA just deserves a 45. I appreciate his palate greatly, and he's a kick ass brewer. He's just not a BJCP judge. And I mean him no disrespect at all by that.

 

[Newsman]

I entered a vanilla imperial stout in a competition and got like a 42. But I didn't even medal. That kinda bummed me out. I don't know what the winning score was, but to get THAT high a score and not even place... musta been some REAL tough competition in that contest! I'm going to have to make that again and try to enter it again in several contests and see what I get.

 

[Jacinthebox]

I entered a vanilla imperial stout in a competition and got like a 42. But I didn't even medal. That kinda bummed me out. I don't know what the winning score was, but to get THAT high a score and not even place... musta been some REAL tough competition in that contest! I'm going to have to make that again and try to enter it again in several contests and see what I get.

I got a 35 on an IPA comp...thought the base was great...didn't get the hop punch I was going for.
I thought it was a great score...no real off comments...said the same thing I was thinking anyway.

Entering a Hefe comp next week...really happy how it turned out...looking forward to get feedback from the judges...not just my buddies that killed that keg (and 3 others) during superbowl.

 

[progmac]

I entered a vanilla imperial stout in a competition and got like a 42. But I didn't even medal. That kinda bummed me out. I don't know what the winning score was, but to get THAT high a score and not even place... musta been some REAL tough competition in that contest! I'm going to have to make that again and try to enter it again in several contests and see what I get.

I got two 41s on a belgian strong that went to miniBOS but didn't place.

maybe it's cause it was really a strong lager (my little secret)

 

[steveoatley]

On the same day I've had the exact same beer score a 44 in one part of the state and a 22 in another part of the state.

I've learned something from probably 80% of the score sheets. It's the 20% of the score sheets that have no feedback, or just plain wrong feedback that I find disappointing.

The biggest flaw in the whole process is - the Judge
You have to go in knowing the process is flawed, by the humans who are tasting the beer.
5 judges could give you a score from 15 to 45 on the same exact beer
5 people ‘taste’ differently
5 people ‘smell’ differently
5 people ‘see’ differently
5 people interpret the word "dark" differently

One of them is in the middle is a messy divorce, and the judge’s spouse just blew up in their face – before the competition.
One judge is battling cancer secretly, and it is wearing on his mind.

Things that should NOT be a part of the critique of your beer, but become apart subconsciously.
What the judge had to eat for breakfast could influence your score.

You can not remove the mind from the man ( or woman )

A computer would be objective.

Learn how to be a judge yourslef, see the event from both sides, and you will learn more about the process.

Olympic reference
It is the same difference between Down Hill Ski racing & Ice Dancing.
One event is timed by a clock, He who reached the bottom first wins the Gold !!
The other is Judged/Scored, by people, and people are flawed.
And in the case of the Olympics’ judges HAVE been told to score other countries/athletes lower for political reason.

Somewhere in that 20 you got is at least one helpful piece of criticism.
Even if it is the hint that your Porter is really a Stout.

Just my 2 cents

 

[CadillacAndy]

The biggest flaw in the whole process is - the Judge
You have to go in knowing the process is flawed, by the humans who are tasting the beer.
5 judges could give you a score from 15 to 45 on the same exact beer
5 people ‘taste’ differently
5 people ‘smell’ differently
5 people ‘see’ differently
5 people interpret the word "dark" differently

One of them is in the middle is a messy divorce, and the judge’s spouse just blew up in their face – before the competition.
One judge is battling cancer secretly, and it is wearing on his mind.

Things that should NOT be a part of the critique of your beer, but become apart subconsciously.
What the judge had to eat for breakfast could influence your score.

You can not remove the mind from the man ( or woman )

A computer would be objective.

Learn how to be a judge yourslef, see the event from both sides, and you will learn more about the process.

Olympic reference
It is the same difference between Down Hill Ski racing & Ice Dancing.
One event is timed by a clock, He who reached the bottom first wins the Gold !!
The other is Judged/Scored, by people, and people are flawed.
And in the case of the Olympics’ judges HAVE been told to score other countries/athletes lower for political reason.

Somewhere in that 20 you got is at least one helpful piece of criticism.
Even if it is the hint that your Porter is really a Stout.

Just my 2 cents

Yup. I agree with pretty much all of that. Just to reiterate that just one set of score sheets doesn't mean too much. When you get 3 sets back and you start to see some common factors, that's when it's time to really start paying attention.

I put together a series of lessons and tips I learned from my experience competing so far (http://onlinebeerscores.com/blog/category/homebrew-competition-tips/) with 2 posts that especially apply to this conversation - Don't Take Criticism or Low Scores Personally and Don't Do Anything Drastic Until You Get Several Sets of Score Sheets Back.

 

[seckert]

Where are you at in Pittsburgh cadillacandy? i am from the East side and once i finish my time in the Marines will be moving back. curious as to how the HB and craft industry is doing around that area. it has been over 17 years since i lived in the burg.

 

[CadillacAndy]

Where are you at in Pittsburgh cadillacandy? i am from the East side and once i finish my time in the Marines will be moving back. curious as to how the HB and craft industry is doing around that area. it has been over 17 years since i lived in the burg.

I'm by the Waterfront, just across the river from Squirrel Hill. Shoot me a message when you get back if you're interested in homebrew club meetings, BJCP classes, grabbing a beer, etc.

 

[NervousDad]

I like to shoot for at least mid 30s. but I'm not too concerned with the score as I am with the comments I get. As long as I get good feedback on my process than I'm happy. I got a 27 on an IPA last month and I was pretty bummed. The feedback was that the beer was brewed/fermented well I just missed the mark on the flavor. I submitted the same beer two weeks later and got a 35

 

[Darwin18]

You are correct. That judge was non certified, but 'experienced' (drinking beer I'd guess). The other score sheets were by a certified judge, the brewmaster of the brewery, and the last I can't recall at the moment. In any case all the sheets were scored in the mid to upper 40's. Guess I should have quit while I was ahead .

One of the things about non-certified judges that personally irks me is when you have a LHBS owner/employee as a judge and they check the "Professional Brewer" under the Non-BJCP qualifications section. It's a small thing in the grand scheme, but it annoys me.

 

[machfive55]

I think the differences in judging and scoring from one comp to the next are pretty crazy. I think everyone that has entered beer in many competitions can attest to this, especially if you have entered the same exact batch. I like to enter comps, I think its fun to win and its fun to get feedback. I usually don't let the scores bother me too much if they are bad. I have brewed excellent beer that gets great feedback from family and friends only to see them score mid twenties in one comp and upper 30's in the next. Whatever. Bad bottle? Bad judge? Palate fatigue? Bad stewarding? There are many things that can give you a bad score none of them have anything to do with making a bad beer.

 

[TopherM]

I love entering and volunteering at BJCP events, but whenever my club throws a competition, we do non-BJCP and make it either celebrity judges or people's choice based on just their overall impression, no style criteria!

 

[befus]

This has been an entertaining and informative thread and I appreciate all the honest opinions. Really didn't expect such an outpouring, but have enjoyed the discussions of serious, but civil opinions. Looking forward to the score sheets and just may have to play devil's advocate and enter it again (as a wee heavy, time might even be on my side) and see wha hoppins.......

 

[Phunhog]

Well I just bottled a truly awful BoPils for a comp. I figured I want to see if I can destroy the judges taste buds....forever. I would be excited to receive a score in the low 20's....it really deserves a 13 at best. At least the other beers I am entering are decent.

 

[befus]

As a final note to this discussion, my score sheets arrived yesterday. They were remarkably consistent. One judge was a national BJCP, the other non-BJCP/experienced. The former scored it 34, the latter 32. Aroma 9/10; Appearance 3/3; Flavor 13/12; Mouthfeel 4/2; Overall 5/5. Both commented that further aging would smooth the obvious alcoholic flavor of this big beer.

Quite satisfied overall and in the theme of the topic's title, not at all disappointed. I might just let it age and enter again next year to see if it grows on them.

 

[progmac]

Well, I was served a giant slice of humble pie this weekend. I brewed what I thought was one of the nicest English Pales I've ever made -- an attempted clone of speckled hen -- and the online software shows that it received the embarrassing score of 21.5. This is the first time I've ever thought a beer was good where the judges hated it, actually it is my worst score ever. So now I'm questioning my sanity and my own ability to taste beer.

I'm curious to see the score sheets. The beer intentionally has diacetyl as part of the flavor profile. I'm wondering if that was part the problem.

On the upside, I passed the BJCP written exam this weekend.

 

[CadillacAndy]

Well, I was served a giant slice of humble pie this weekend. I brewed what I thought was one of the nicest English Pales I've ever made -- an attempted clone of speckled hen -- and the online software shows that it received the embarrassing score of 21.5. This is the first time I've ever thought a beer was good where the judges hated it, actually it is my worst score ever. So now I'm questioning my sanity and my own ability to taste beer.

I'm curious to see the score sheets. The beer intentionally has diacetyl as part of the flavor profile. I'm wondering if that was part the problem.

On the upside, I passed the BJCP written exam this weekend.

Was this SODZ BBF competition? I don't do well there either. English brown and brown porter both scored 28. My APA got a 33 and my Special Bitter a 37.

When and where did you take your test? I took mine in Columbus on Oct 12 and haven't heard anything yet.

 

[Dmlsys23]

My IPA just got a 30. I'll take it considering I didn't brew it for competition and it was my first comp.

 

[progmac]

Was this SODZ BBF competition? I don't do well there either. English brown and brown porter both scored 28. My APA got a 33 and my Special Bitter a 37.

When and where did you take your test? I took mine in Columbus on Oct 12 and haven't heard anything yet.

When I say written, I just mean the multiple choice online thing, which grades automatically. I'm scheduled to take the tasting portion in July.

I was referring to a relatively small (300 entry) Cincinnati competition, called beers of the world or something like that.

 

[CadillacAndy]

When I say written, I just mean the multiple choice online thing, which grades automatically. I'm scheduled to take the tasting portion in July.

I was referring to a relatively small (300 entry) Cincinnati competition, called beers of the world or something like that.

Gotcha. I misread that you said "written" and not "tasting" and got excited that you were from Ohio and thought maybe we took the test together in October.

Same with the competition. I was going to submit beer to that competition as well but time got away from me. Sorry to hear about the low score though. Hopefully the score sheets come back and help you figure out what the issue was. Could have just been issue with the bottle.

 

[Dmlsys23]

I think we were in the same comp! America vs The World?

 

[progmac]

I think we were in the same comp! America vs The World?

That sounds right!

 

[Brews]

I recently entered my first beer in a competition and scored a 38 and took silver. I've always said I wasn't going to enter one but got talked in to it and now I'm thinking... Hey, that was kind of cool. I see more entries in my future

 

[progmac]

I recently entered my first beer in a competition and scored a 38 and took silver. I've always said I wasn't going to enter one but got talked in to it and now I'm thinking... Hey, that was kind of cool. I see more entries in my future

Congrats! What was the beer?

 

[Brews]

It was a Saison and my first attempt at one. Beginners luck I guess. But I have been brewing about 18 years.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[part16john]

I also entered the us vs. The world comp. This was my 2nd comp. My Hefeweizen received a 29, IPA 35, saison 37.5 and chocolate stout had a 38.33. The saison took silver in belgian and French ale. Overall pleased with scores.

 

[NervousDad]

I just submitted a beer to 3 different competitions one beer scored 39 Silver, 37.5 bronze, then a 22 ???

I didn't get me score sheets back, but I'm baffled by that score.

 

[Darwin18]

Maybe you had a bad bottle? Perhaps it was oxidized during the trip?

 

[NervousDad]

Maybe you had a bad bottle? Perhaps it was oxidized during the trip?

That's the only thing I can think of, but the low score was a local competition and it was judged 5 days after bottling. The other were shipped.

I would think even if it was a contaminated bottled it would take a while to cause any problems, it was a 9% IIPA.

I guess I'll have to wait an see

 

[Homercidal]

I'd say it shouldn't be too hard to get to mid 20s, but I personally would generally want to be high 30s or low 40s. BUT! The score doesn't really indicate how good the beers is, it's an indication of how closely to style the beer is too.

You could have a GREAT beer score pretty low if it's just not entered in the right category.

Also, consider that a beer judge is merely human and what may taste bad to a beer judge means NOTHING to the person who has to enjoy that beer all the time. A homebrewer has a perfect right to brew a beer to their own satisfaction. Again, part of that is related to "to-style", but not all of it.

 

[Braufessor]

I had beers in Midwinter and KCBM this past weekend - basically sent the same 5 beers to both comps. Anxious to see the feedback, but the scores were remarkably consistent I thought. I thought 3 of the beers I sent were good when I sent them. I thought my Mild was the best and it placed in both. I thought my helles was very good - did not place but scored 42 and 37, Thought my amber was good, but out of category(hoppy/big) -scored 34.5 at midwinter. Had two that were new recipes and looking for feedback. Pale ale was a bit big and somewhat harsh..... high 20's-30. I thought my porter was suspect. Mid to high 20's in both. But all 5 beers did close to the same point wise. Be intersting to see if the comments match up.
I also sent in a sour to KCBM..... never made one. Don't know much about them. Just figured I would send it to someone who knew what they were talking about. Not even sure if I entered it in right category.... But it got an 18..... Sorry to anyone who had to drink it Pretty bad when your beer gets an 18 in a category where it is supposed to be infected Oh, well..... keeps you humble I guess.

 

[tommyguner03]

I'm glad I came across this post. I just entered my first competition. The drunk monk. I entered four beers and I hope to get some feedback on what to improve on. If I score low 30s or high 30s I'll be happy but we will see. Cheers.

 

[Homercidal]

I'm glad I came across this post. I just entered my first competition. The drunk monk. I entered four beers and I hope to get some feedback on what to improve on. If I score low 30s or high 30s I'll be happy but we will see. Cheers.

I hope you get good feedback. Sometimes it seems the judges are either drunk or lazy and you don't get anything back that is helpful. It's kind of rare, but not rare enough.

 

[NervousDad]

I had beers in Midwinter and KCBM this past weekend - basically sent the same 5 beers to both comps. Anxious to see the feedback, but the scores were remarkably consistent I thought. I thought 3 of the beers I sent were good when I sent them. I thought my Mild was the best and it placed in both. I thought my helles was very good - did not place but scored 42 and 37, Thought my amber was good, but out of category(hoppy/big) -scored 34.5 at midwinter. Had two that were new recipes and looking for feedback. Pale ale was a bit big and somewhat harsh..... high 20's-30. I thought my porter was suspect. Mid to high 20's in both. But all 5 beers did close to the same point wise. Be intersting to see if the comments match up.
I also sent in a sour to KCBM..... never made one. Don't know much about them. Just figured I would send it to someone who knew what they were talking about. Not even sure if I entered it in right category.... But it got an 18..... Sorry to anyone who had to drink it Pretty bad when your beer gets an 18 in a category where it is supposed to be infected Oh, well..... keeps you humble I guess.

Mid-winter is a great competition. I have had two beers medal there this year. I like that they keep the flights small and the caliper of judges is great.

I've received a score sheet once from a local competition that had my beer on a flight of 15 beers (I was 13). How can anyone judge that many beers and be in any shape to give accurate feedback.

 

[TopherM]

In any given all-day judging session consisting of two flights of about 6-8 beers, so 12-16 total beers judged, I only actually drink about 20-24 oz total over an 8 hour period.

The pours are about 3-4 oz and I only actually finish the good ones. Most I have about an ounce or two then dump them.

FYI, the BJCP handbook says to limit judges to a max of 10 beers per session, but every competition I've judged has been closer to 6-8.

All BFBC judges I've ever been around take the job pretty seriously and act professionally at the event. No one goes through all of the trouble it takes to be a BFBC judge just to get drunk off your homebrew

 

[Braufessor]

Mid-winter is a great competition. I have had two beers medal there this year. I like that they keep the flights small and the caliper of judges is great.

I've received a score sheet once from a local competition that had my beer on a flight of 15 beers (I was 13). How can anyone judge that many beers and be in any shape to give accurate feedback.

Congrats on the showing - what categories? Are they ones you usually enter?

I agree - it is one of my 3-4 favorite competitions. I was kind of surprised (in a good way) by the info they sent out about how small the flights were, etc. I like all the contests the Beer Barons run - they are all well done in my experience.

I sent 5 off to Drunk Monk this morning. January/February and March are crazy for comps. After Drunk Monk, I only have a couple more to send to in the upcoming months.... IBU Open probably, NHC and MCAB..... Other than that, none have caught my eye at this point.

 

[finsfan]

I just recently entered my first comp to figure out some off flavors I was getting. I did not expect to score anything over a mid 20. I just got my score sheets back today and scored a 29 and a 34. I was surprised to say the least, didnt win anything but glad to get non-biased feedback. On the 29, they did point out what the off flavors were and it was very helpful. Was the rest of the competition just not that good and mine didnt seem bad compared? The only reason I ask is because I had a hard time drinking both of those beers.

 

[NervousDad]

Congrats on the showing - what categories? Are they ones you usually enter?

I agree - it is one of my 3-4 favorite competitions. I was kind of surprised (in a good way) by the info they sent out about how small the flights were, etc. I like all the contests the Beer Barons run - they are all well done in my experience.

I sent 5 off to Drunk Monk this morning. January/February and March are crazy for comps. After Drunk Monk, I only have a couple more to send to in the upcoming months.... IBU Open probably, NHC and MCAB..... Other than that, none have caught my eye at this point.

Thanks, They were 14B & 14C, I usually only enter one IPA.

My wife is about to kill me, I have my calendar full of brew dates,dry hop dates, Kegging dates,shipping date to keep onto of these competitions.