Simple Saison

[jrgtr42]

Hey, everyone.
I want to do a sinple, straightforward saison brew. I've poked around Brewers |Friend and my back issues of BYO and Zymurgy magazines, and think I came up with something. How does this sound?
all-grain, 3 kettle.
7lbs Pilsner
1lb rye malt
2lb cane sugar, added to boil
mash at 150, 90 min

.5oz Newport (homegrown) 60min
1oz Saaz 15min
75 min boil

T-58 or BE-134 yeast, ferment around 70ish
Est OG 1.055
Est FG 1.010

Any suggestions or comments?
thx.

 

[Ninoid]

I often make Saison in the summer because I don't have the ability to regulate the fermentation temperature, so I use Saison yeast at over 30'C. I would suggest wheat malt instead of rye and M29 yeast. I tried all three (BE-134, T-58) and M29 gave me the best beer.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I like it - nice and simple. I've never used either of those yeasts (or M29) - Belle saison is my only experience with dry saison yeast, and it was fantastic (similar to WY3711).

 

[monkeymath]

Looks good to me! I'd up the non-barley grains a bit, maybe throw in a pound of unmalted wheat, oats or whatever you wish to play around with.
Rye can produce a bit of a gray tint, so I'd suggest replacing a pound of Pilsner by Vienna malt, to push it to a more golden colour. I also think Vienna smoothes out the flavour a bit.

 

[shetc]

I highly recommend this guide - it's helped me win a number of medals.

https://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/guide-saisons-and-saison-yeasts

 

[duffy5018]

Looks good to me. Rye in a saison is wonderful. My one critique would be that's a lot of sugar (20%). I limit my sugar additions to 10% max. Any more and it can give flavors that may clash with the yeast.

 

[jrgtr42]

Looks good to me! I'd up the non-barley grains a bit, maybe throw in a pound of unmalted wheat, oats or whatever you wish to play around with.
Rye can produce a bit of a gray tint, so I'd suggest replacing a pound of Pilsner by Vienna malt, to push it to a more golden colour. I also think Vienna smoothes out the flavour a bit.

Looks good to me. Rye in a saison is wonderful. My one critique would be that's a lot of sugar (20%). I limit my sugar additions to 10% max. Any more and it can give flavors that may clash with the yeast.

|Thanks for the info.
So maybe drop the sugar down to a pound, and add in a pound and a half or so of Vienna to make up for it?
That'll keep me about the same SG, |FG seems to have dropped somewhere along the way, to 1.003 - and I know you want a saison really dry, so that's a good thing.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

FG seems to have dropped somewhere along the way, to 1.003

Are you using Beersmith to calculate FG? Beersmith has most sugars set to some weird default maximums (Max in batch). Table sugar is 10%, Cane (beet) sugar is 7% and Corn sugar is 5%. If you have more than the default maximum, BS assumes the extra is not fermentable (which is a load of BS) thus increasing OG and FG by the same amount. You can (and should) change the defaults under the Fermentables tab (as long as there are enough nutrients, yeast will ferment a batch of 100% sugar).

 

[jrgtr42]

Are you using Beersmith to calculate FG? Beersmith has most sugars set to some weird default maximums (Max in batch). Table sugar is 10%, Cane (beet) sugar is 7% and Corn sugar is 5%. If you have more than the default maximum, BS assumes the extra is not fermentable (which is a load of BS) thus increasing OG and FG by the same amount. You can (and should) change the defaults under the Fermentables tab (as long as there are enough nutrients, yeast will ferment a batch of 100% sugar).

I use Brewer's Friend. It may have been an ID-10-T error, now |I can't seem to make it go back up. (not complaining there...)

 

[Kold Brygg]

The recipe looks very good.

I've got my hand of a recipe which is close to Glazen Toren Saison d'Erpe-Mere. Got it from a guy who visited the brewery and put it together with information he got.

It's even simpler than yours, but have a few similarities.

Grist
87.5% Pilsner
12.5% Wheat
OG 1.050-1.055

Mashing
60@63°C
20@72°C

Boil for 75 minutes

Hops
@75 Saaz 18 IBU
@flameout 2g/l Hallertau Mittelfruh

They use Safale BE-134
Rehydrate
Pitch around 68°F let it free raise to 78-83°F within a couple of days. Let it sit for at least 2 weeks, maybe 3. BE-134 goes low, FG in the area 1.000-1.005 is not unheard of.

Carbonate with sugar, aim around 3.0 co2. They use F-2, but for homebrewing residual yeast work. 3 weeks. Bottle maturing for 3 weeks @28°C. Enjoy.

 

[jrgtr42]

So I brewed this up today.
Everything was going as expected, numbers close up.
I had to bring my computer upstairs halfway through the boil because the battery was getting low,
so when I checked gravity, it ended up about .008 low - expected about 1.053, tested at 1.045.
Thinking about that as I cleaned up and so on,
Just now I realized I forgot to add the cane sugar.
Checked the recipe with that left out and it was spot on where I tested.
I can add the sugar in later on, as the primary fermentation is winding down,
my quiestion is, should I just put it in dry, or dissolve it in just enough water |(boil it then cool?) and add it in as a liquid? still looking foward to drinking it.

 

[monkeymath]

It probably works either way, but I'd add a litre or so of boiling water, stir a lot, then dump it in after 10-15 minutes. It won't raise the temperature significantly and won't hurt your yeasties.
You might also want to agitate the fermentor a bit afterwards, to ensure even distribution.

I wouldn't wait for fermentation to wind down. In the early stages, the introduced oxygen can be absorbed more quickly and efficiently.

 

[Miraculix]

If you add it undissolved, prepare for a nice fountain of beer!

 

[MikeCo]

I've never used simple sugar in a saison, and they still come out really dry using BE-134 or WY3724. You may not need the sugar, but it would be interesting to brew the recipe with and without the sugar to compare. I agree 2 lb is excessive, especially for a 1.055 OG beer.

If you want to add it, my receommendation would be to dissolve in water and boil. Then let it cool and put it in while fermentation is still active.

 

[Bobo1898]

Yep, you can add it in primary as @monkeymath suggests---around two days in.

I've done it in as little of a pint of boiled water--not too thick and not too watery.

 

[ejf063]

not to complicate things... if you dont want to go through the hassle of boiling up a simple sugar then cooling it off, etc., you can just pour some Belgian Candy Syrup up in there. They have clear, which would be exactly what youre looking for.

 

[jrgtr42]

not to complicate things... if you dont want to go through the hassle of boiling up a simple sugar then cooling it off, etc., you can just pour some Belgian Candy Syrup up in there. They have clear, which would be exactly what youre looking for.

The only problem with that is that I don't have any around, and I don't have a LHBS that I can run to to get some.
I don't see much of a hassle with boiling then cooling a simple syrup, as long as it doesn't re-crystalize.

 

[jrgtr42]

I've never used simple sugar in a saison, and they still come out really dry using BE-134 or WY3724. You may not need the sugar, but it would be interesting to brew the recipe with and without the sugar to compare. I agree 2 lb is excessive, especially for a 1.055 OG beer.

If you want to add it, my receommendation would be to dissolve in water and boil. Then let it cool and put it in while fermentation is still active.

That's interesting. Almost every recipe I've seen, from pros on down, has some sort of simple sugar, be it cane, candi syrup etc.
And the articles I've seen in Zymurgy and BYO all mention using it to dry the beer out.
Not saying you're right or wrong - brewing is all about not having any rules to break.

 

[Twinkeelfool]

With a long low temperature mash, no crystal malt, and a saison strain you can easily get them down to 1.005 final gravity without any sugar. But adding sugar is fine too.

 

[Kold Brygg]

With a long low temperature mash, no crystal malt, and a saison strain you can easily get them down to 1.005 final gravity without any sugar. But adding sugar is fine too.

I'm down to 1.002 with BE-134 at my aforementioned recipe, no sugar there.

 

[tennesseean_87]

With a long low temperature mash, no crystal malt, and a saison strain you can easily get them down to 1.005 final gravity without any sugar. But adding sugar is fine too.

With 3711 or Belle, you can add crystal, mash at 160, and you'll still get there without sugar.