Securely tying the bag

[Merkur]

I am using a Wilser bag in a 20 gallon Spike kettle and at the end of the mash, I tighten the bag using the draw-string, wrap the cord around the bag and make a loop which is what I use to lift the bag for draining. This has worked well over many batches but it is difficult when tying the hot bag. I cannot just tighten the bag and make a loop as there will then not be enough headroom to lift it.

Has anyone come up with a bag clip to facilitate easy tying and lifting of the bag!

Paul

 

[BrewZer]

You've got a lot of head space above the grains. I'd use two cords. Tie one at the top, lift, and then tie the second down about 8 inches and lift from that one.

 

[GrowleyMonster]

What he said. Lift it until the bag is under a little tension, then choke up on it with another short snotter down low. Push it down close to the grain ball. Best way is to take a piece of 1/4 double braid or similar, and make a Constrictor Knot, AKA Miller's Knot, around the bag. Don't use the Double version and take care that you do not tie a simple clove hitch, which is not secure enough. Snap the two bitter ends tightly to tighten this knot up good, and it will not slip on you. Tie the two bitter ends into very short Bowlines. Hook your hook into both bowlines and lift.

Alternately you could lay up a short grommet in 3 strand rope, or tie two ends of a short piece of line together with a square knot, and Lark's Head AKA Cow Hitch this loop around the bag and hook the hook into the leftover bight. You have to cinch it up good and tight or it will slip, but once it is jammed up good it should be secure enough. Don't sue me if it isn't, please.

 

[DBhomebrew]

All good answers above. I prefer hitches that are easier to tie and release. Still serious hitches used by climbers, rope rescue, etc.

Tie a short loop or use the loop Wilser usually provides. Use that loop to tie a Prusik (Sunday) hitch or better yet a klemheist.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I did a post on this a while back…

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/biab-hoisting-with-a-ratchet-pulley-rev-1.623808/

 

[MaxStout]

You could use some velcro cable ties.

 

[Merkur]

What he said. Lift it until the bag is under a little tension, then choke up on it with another short snotter down low. Push it down close to the grain ball. Best way is to take a piece of 1/4 double braid or similar, and make a Constrictor Knot, AKA Miller's Knot, around the bag. Don't use the Double version and take care that you do not tie a simple clove hitch, which is not secure enough. Snap the two bitter ends tightly to tighten this knot up good, and it will not slip on you. Tie the two bitter ends into very short Bowlines. Hook your hook into both bowlines and lift.

Alternately you could lay up a short grommet in 3 strand rope, or tie two ends of a short piece of line together with a square knot, and Lark's Head AKA Cow Hitch this loop around the bag and hook the hook into the leftover bight. You have to cinch it up good and tight or it will slip, but once it is jammed up good it should be secure enough. Don't sue me if it isn't, please.

Thanks for the tips on the knots to use. I like the Constrictor knot and found out, as you said, that the standard clove hitch will not work.

 

[UdonPete]

Or simply use the Brew Bag with the loops already on the bag ?

 

[DBhomebrew]

Or simply use the Brew Bag with the loops already on the bag ?

Does that address OP's lack of adequate headroom?

 

[UdonPete]

Does that address OP's lack of adequate headroom?

Yes as nothing extra is needed

 

[DBhomebrew]

I don't see how that gets the grain ball any higher.

 

[UdonPete]

I don't see how that gets the grain ball any higher.

Because the cord/rope goes though the loops in the Brew Bag - unlike other bags - it also makes for a far safer way to hoist a very hot bag of grains and wort

 

[doug293cz]

Does that address OP's lack of adequate headroom?

No it does not. The brew bags long handles, and high headroom requirements are probably its main drawback (functionally.)

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

I don't see how that gets the grain ball any higher.

It doesn't (see above.) I don't think @UdonPete understands the issue.

Cord loop and Prusik knot around gathered top of the bag requires much less headroom.

Of course you could always to the same with The Brew Bag, but then you wasted your money on the fancy handles.

Brew on

 

[UdonPete]

Instead of using a couple of hooks / carabinas etc I simple use cord to pass through the loops and tie a know - that would save a lot of space

 

[doug293cz]

Instead of using a couple of hooks / carabinas etc I simple use cord to pass through the loops and tie a know - that would save a lot of space

This is the height issue with The Brew Bag:

Brew on

 

[UdonPete]

Agree with that

 

[Merkur]

You’ve got it @doug293cz. I made up a short loop as suggested here and tied a Prusik knot around the bag. I put half a sack of grain in the Wilser bag to simulate a batch of wet grain and it worked well.

I have a good pulley block that I like but in looking at it I guess that the ‘dead end’ of the block could be re-made to save a few inches. See photo.

Thanks for all the help and ideas here.

Paul

 

[bracconiere]

https://www.beveragefactory.com/cof...CAP-c_5BtcO_1pPgUhhZ_WDgF9_KTBbxoCR7MQAvD_BwE
not a BIABer but what about something like this?

 

[Merkur]

I wouldn’t trust that clip-on handle with ~50Lbs of hot wet grain!

Paul

 

[bracconiere]

I wouldn’t trust that clip-on handle with ~50Lbs of hot wet grain!

Paul

that and it's $200+....just thought i'd toss it out,

what about a strap wrench like this, or similar?

https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-S...cphy=9030209&hvtargid=pla-1089843792398&psc=1

 

[doug293cz]

that and it's $200+....just thought i'd toss it out,

what about a strap wrench like this, or similar?

https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-S...cphy=9030209&hvtargid=pla-1089843792398&psc=1

I've got a strap wrench like that, and I wouldn't want to have to try to get it around the top of a grain bag. They're kind of fidgety to get in place. Also, not sure how you'd connect it to your rope & pulley.

Brew on

 

[GrowleyMonster]

Thanks for the tips on the knots to use. I like the Constrictor knot and found out, as you said, that the standard clove hitch will not work.

It's the method I have used since I quit brewing LME and started going BIAB. It's not a wild assed idea, it's what I actually do, successfully. I will take pics next batch I do. I don't bother with blocks. ("pulleys" to landlubbers) I just use SS rings or S hooks or carabiners, whatever.

First I suspend the bag by the drawstring, but do not attempt to hoist it all the way out of the wort. Then I pass my lifting strap, just a short piece of 1/4" or 5/16" nylon rope around the bag in a constrictor knot as low as I can get it, snap the two ends apart briskly and repeatedly to tighten it up good, and tie my two small bowlines in the ends. You could also make two very small spliced eyes in the ends if desired, before tying the constrictor. I tie a short bowline in the end of the hoisting rope, and use an S hook to join it to the two lifting eyes I just made, then pass the hauling end up through the top ring which I suspend from a 2x4 passing overhead, then back down under the top crook of the S hook, then back up through the top ring again. That is more mechanical advantage than should ever be needed. As I hoist, I help it along by lifting up with my hand gripping the neck of the bag as I heave on the lifting rope. When it is clear of the wort, I tie the hauling part off with a slip half hitch around the lifting parts or the upper ring, and let it drain. After it has drained a bit I simply lift up on the bag by hand and hook the hook directly into the upper ring. Then I can wrap the lifting rope around and around the bag tightly, to squeeze it. I don't go crazy on this first squeeze. I usually sparge with 1-1/2 gallons of hot water in another kettle, then drain as before, but this time I really squeeze the goodness out of that bag. Before max pressure is applied, I empty the sparge kettle into the boil kettle, in case the bag bursts I will already have most of the good stuff in the main kettle and if I lose a pint or so because I busted the bag and dumped 20 lbs of spent grain into it, no big loss. But it hasn't happened yet.

Depending on the size of the kettle and the size of the bag, you may want to keep the bag just slightly down inside the kettle for a few minutes so it doesn't drip all over the floor or ground or stove. Once I finally haul it all the way up, I light the fire and go for boil in the strike wort. By the time it is boiling I will have already added the sparged wort.

I have an idea for a BIAB bag press, actually. I will post if/when I put it together as it will probably be a bit of a novel approach to most of you.

 

[doug293cz]

... Then I can wrap the lifting rope around and around the bag tightly, to squeeze it. I don't go crazy on this first squeeze. I usually sparge with 1-1/2 gallons of hot water in another kettle, then drain as before, but this time I really squeeze the goodness out of that bag. ...

From a maximum efficiency standpoint, you are better off doing the hard squeeze after the initial draining, rather than after the sparge draining. The less extract (sugar) left in the grains before you do the sparge, the lower the concentration of the sparged wort will be, and the lower the amount of extract (sugar) remaining in the spent grain due to absorption.

I could do some calculations on this, but would need the following data:

Strike water volume, measured at room temp​

Grain bill weight​

SG (temp corrected) after the initial draining​

Volume recovered after initial draining, and temp at which volume was measured​

Sparge water volume, measured at room temp​

Total pre-boil volume, and temp at which volume was measured.​

​

I doubt the efficiency difference is very large, and it might be more important to you do your "protected squeeze" at the end, rather than get absolute maximum lauter efficiency.

Brew on

 

[Merkur]

Getting a bit off-topic here but I do not sparge the bag. Just lift it, let it drain while the kettle is coming up to the boil and then squeeze the bag 5 or 6 times. My Mash efficiency is set to 75% and on this last ten gallon IPA batch I achieved 77% which I am happy with.

Thanks for all the suggestions. There’s a wealth of experience on this forum!

Paul

 

[GrowleyMonster]

From a maximum efficiency standpoint, you are better off doing the hard squeeze after the initial draining, rather than after the sparge draining. The less extract (sugar) left in the grains before you do the sparge, the lower the concentration of the sparged wort will be, and the lower the amount of extract (sugar) remaining in the spent grain due to absorption.

I could do some calculations on this, but would need the following data:

Strike water volume, measured at room temp​

Grain bill weight​

SG (temp corrected) after the initial draining​

Volume recovered after initial draining, and temp at which volume was measured​

Sparge water volume, measured at room temp​

Total pre-boil volume, and temp at which volume was measured.​

​

I doubt the efficiency difference is very large, and it might be more important to you do your "protected squeeze" at the end, rather than get absolute maximum lauter efficiency.

Brew on

Points to ponder!

 

[doug293cz]

Points to ponder!

I should state that I don't think maximizing efficiency is the most important thing in brewing. Brewers should always choose the process options that work best for them, on their equipment, and produces beer that they like. I just want to help brewers make choices based on complete information.

Brew on

 

[wsmith1625]

There has been a lot of ideas covered in this thread already, so I apologize if this has already been suggested. I also use a Wilser Brew Bag and a pulley configured the same as the OP. I never lift the bag with the draw string attached to the bag. I'm afraid that will put a lot of stress on the fabric and stitching. Instead, I tighten the draw string and the excess fabric. Then I use the small loop of string that came with the bag and tie it off down closer to the grain. Clip the carabineer connected to the pulley to the lower loop of string and lift the grain from the pot.