Secret to big stouts..

[mikek]

Not sure where to place this thread, but wondering if there is a simple answer to what gives some of the huge, sticky/sweet/monster stouts that specific characteristic.. There are big beers like "Eclipse" series but then there are bombs of sweetness and thick stouts like Darkness, Dark Lord that are on a different level (for better or worse depending on one's taste)... what are those beers doing to have all that mouth feel, sweetness etc.... I brewed a big RIS that is in secondary and will be at roughly 10.5%. It looks and smells great but is not going to be that sweeter heavy stout like a Darkness... what ingredients or process would take that beer to that type of level??? not sure is this is a simple answer or too much info to ask for but giving it a shot...

thanks.

 

[surffisher2a]

unfermentable sugars in the wort, usually from specialty grains.

 

[mikek]

unfermentable sugars in the wort, usually from specialty grains.

So in other words they add certain grains that will produce sugars but NOT BE fermented by the yeast to ETOH...thus leaving the sweetness behind... are there certain grains that accomplish this??? I thing everything I used fermented...

 

[allenH]

There is a great thread (A tribute to Hunahpu) where a bunch of people did a lot of research and contacted Cigar City's head brewer, who gave some pretty good clues on brewing Hunahpu. Everyone that has brewed that recipe has had excellent result, including myself.
Like surffisher said, lots of unfermented sugar and lots of specialty grains. According to Wayne Wambles (head brewer at CCB), Huna is 49% specialty malts, starts out around 1.130 and finishes around 1.040!
I would link the thread for you, but I am on mobile.

 

[Paradigm]

I would saw a lot of dark crystal malt

 

[mikek]

Is getting this effect while doing extract possible? I am using grains as well as the extract but is this effect only going to be possible with all grain?

 

[DrunkleJon]

In addition to the specialty malts, you can also add lactose (milk sugar used often in milk stouts, adds residual mouthfeel and sweetness), or Oatmeal for mouthfeel and thickness. Then you could also try mashing at warmer temps when doing AG/PM brews which will give you more complex unfermentable sugars.

 

[mikek]

I think the basic answer to my question is it is not a simple one step thing to make the difference.. I am in process of setting up taking a class on all grain brewing.. that may be the time I can really get some info on this.. I am looking forward to my RIS but I really would like to brew a big/massive Dark Lord/Darkness/Hunahpu type beer and I don't think I have the brewing knowledge to do it yet...

 

[mrdail87]

Is getting this effect while doing extract possible? I am using grains as well as the extract but is this effect only going to be possible with all grain?

It's certainly possible with an extract brew. My first stout was an extract brew and it came out great. I like them strong too, but this one wasn't quite the monster I think you're going for.

Just use plenty of crystal/caramel malts and you'll get your sweetness. Now I will say adding oats for mouth feel isn't possible unless it's mashed with other malts. But you can still make a great tasting stout using extract, definitely.

 

[mrdail87]

Also want to add real quick, I'd go heavier with lighter crystal malts like crystal 40 for sweetness.

Darker crystals start to get a little more bitter from the kilning process, and will get overpowering if you add to much.

 

[solbes]

Darkness has Oats and Belgian Candy Sugar in it. One adds a lot of mouthfeel and the BCS adds a certain sweetness from the alcohol bump. Also hints of figs and stone fruit from the BCS. Crystal and roasted malts obviously add a lot of unfermentables.

What was the FG on your stout in secondary? Pretty early to know anything about how good its going to turn out. The sharp bite from the roast will meld into the background and the sweetness will come forward with time. If you have minimal headspace in your carboy, I'd simply forget about it for 4 months and then bottle.

 

[Hello]

Specialty grains have a recommended maximum amount that you want in your batch. The reason for this is that these grains are often nearly fully converted and they do not provide enough fermentables. Howerver, if you're looking for a sweeter beer, adding more than say 10% chocolate malt is definitely going to aid in the FG being higher than a standard stout.

Basically, you can lower your base malts, up your specialty malts, and end up with a sweeter beer. Mouthfeel is aided by adding lactose (which adds sweetness too), oats, and even malto-dextrine.

The yeast will then do the rest of the work. I like to use a yeast that reports medium attenuation. I love Wyeast 1028. It really became my go-to for dark beers. It's attenuation is 73-77% and has medium-low flocculation. I've used it in a porter, and two stouts now.

So it's a mixture of things but pushing the grain bill and ignoring the "max in batch" limits (a term BeerSmith uses), will help accomplish a bigger stout with a hint of sweetness.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Yeast only has an alcohol tolerance to a certain percentage. You could concentrate your wort (brew to a high enough OG that the yeast will crap out on you before it eats all of the sugars) though I am sure you would get sick of >16% beers

 

[mikek]

Fermentables

Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
12 lb Liquid Malt Extract - Extra Light 37 2.5 65.3%
2 lb Liquid Malt Extract - Dark 35 30 10.9%
8 oz Maltodextrin 39 0 2.7%
14.5 lb Total


Steeping Grains

Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
8 oz American - Caramel / Crystal 120L 33 120 2.7%
1 lb American - Chocolate 29 350 5.4%
6 oz United Kingdom - Black Patent 27 525 2%
8 oz American - Black Barley 27 530 2.7%
1 lb American - Caramel / Crystal 40L 34 40 5.4%
8 oz Flaked Oats 33 2.2 2.7%


Hops

Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
2 oz Magnum Pellet 15 Boil 60 min 68.62
2 oz Cascade Pellet 7 Boil 5 min 6.38

OG expected 1.105, actual 1.1
FG expected 1.029, actual 1.026
ABV expected 9.95, actual 9.71

This was my recipe...
I should mention the base of the recipe was a RIS kit but I then researched and used a brewing aid online to tweak and add ingredients to better get what I was hoping for....

 

[ohiobeer29]

awesome thread here definitely will try this down the road