Same Off Flavor

[phillygreen]

Good Day Everyone,

So I have brewed about 10 batches of extract now. I have only brewed IPA's and pale Ales. In all of my beers i have this same stale caramel off flavor almost like my LME is scorching or something but i know its not. I turn off heat and stir well for about 15 mins before turning the heat back on. The beer is border line drinkable, Some have it more than others but that same damn taste is always there. I have sh!ty City water (taste like crap) and have brewed with it but also used spring water and distilled so i dont think the water is the issue. I mainly use Dry 05 yeast and do have a fermentation chamber to keep the fermentation at the right temp. I have dry hopped, racked to secondary still same flavor. I am very very good at keeping thing sanitary and clean so i dont think its a contamination issue. I usually always hit my OG but usually always come in low on my FG. When i pull my sample for my FG reading after fermentation i taste the sample and i can taste the flavor and it usually gets stronger after bottling but i dont think its oxidation because I haven't even transferred yet? I was thinking of brewing a Hefe of Brown ale and see if i get the same taste.

Any ideas? There has to be a common denominator but I cant pin point it.

 

[VikeMan]

So I have brewed about 10 batches of extract now. I have only brewed IPA's and pale Ales. In all of my beers i have this same stale caramel off flavor almost like my LME is scorching or something but i know its not.

For your next batch, I'd recommend switching from LME to DME. I'll probably stir up a sh*t storm saying this, but LME is a flawed, stale product from the get go. There is no such thing as fresh LME (i.e. it comes already oxidized), and the fact that LME beers are virtually always darker than equivalent DME or (especially) all grain beers bears that out.

 

[Dgallo]

Stale caramel is an off flavor of Oxidation. Your beer is getting exposed to oxygen at some point post fermentation.

Whats your process post fermentation.? What’s your dryhopping practices and how do you package your beer? Be as specific and detailed as possible and we will be able to help

 

[phillygreen]

When I pull a sample after fermentation is complete i can taste it in the sample before i even remove the beer form the carboy. I use plastic carboys and rubber bungs with the 3 pc air lock. As i do agree with you that it does taste like oxidation how the hell is it exposed to air from Cool down to ferm? i use a wort chiller and usually have the wort cooled and sealed in the carboy within 45mins of boil. Its got to be something between the boil and finished ferm if i can taste it in the FG sample before bottling. When dry hopping i pull the bung pour in the hops and seal it back within 30 sec.

I am going to be converting to all grain very soon. I do also believe it has something to do with the LME too.

 

[Hernando]

Have you been getting yoru extract from the same store? Perhaps try a different source as as Vikeman stated try using the DME. Just slowly start ruling things out. Once you pin point your source for the off taste you will be golden.

 

[ike8228]

Do you add any steeping steps for specialty grains? That tends to ‘freshen up’ extract. Maybe you just don’t like the taste of extract. Some people can really tell the difference, especially if you drink real good fresh from scratch beer. Have you ever had an extract beer not your own. Someone else’s perhaps, did you like it? It does have a distinct taste to it. I feel it does. If it’s relatively fresh, as fresh as LME can be, and you have specialty grains steeped as well, and perhaps it’s a heavier beer that off flavors can hide, then you can still produce a great beer. I’ve made some good beers with extract, but there are a few that you can tell.

 

[h22lude]

I'd put money on it being oxygen. I was having a very similar issue with both AG and extract. Started looking into low oxygen and my first AG batch with those processes was 100 times better. Been doing that for over 2 years now and my beers have never been better. I recently made an extract brown ale batch because I didn't have time for all grain. I used the same low oxygen processes I use for all grain. Came out better than any locally brewed brown ale.

 

[Dgallo]

I'd put money on it being oxygen. I was having a very similar issue with both AG and extract. Started looking into low oxygen and my first AG batch with those processes was 100 times better. Been doing that for over 2 years now and my beers have never been better. I recently made an extract brown ale batch because I didn't have time for all grain. I used the same low oxygen processes I use for all grain. Came out better than any locally brewed brown ale.

Agreed. If your processes are spot on and you manage o2 you can make a fabulous beer with extract. I brew Ag but make no boil extract beer with Hornindal when I need a beer quick for a party. This is a no boil extract neipa and I would bet $100 you put 4 ag beers and this one in a blind taste test, you wouldn’t be able to pick it out

 

[Yooper]

A couple of things to mention. One is to add the bulk of the extract at flame out, so you don't get a 'cooked extract' flavor. That could be what you are tasting. Old canned extract is another possiblity- try to avoid it if at all possible. Use fresh extract from the big jugs at the homebrew store (they have nitrogen flushing), or use dry malt extract. Use about 1 pound of extract in the boil, and add the rest when you turn off the heat and stir it and let it sit for a couple of minutes before cooling. That will make a much better beer!

 

[phillygreen]

Man... That beer looks great!
I know its very hard to tell me what im doing wrong without seeing my brew day but what would you say would be the biggest culprit from boil to ferm that might get enough O2 in it that it would cause this in my beer? I have watched videos, books ect on how to brew and i am getting pretty exact to what is recommended. I just am not sure where O2 would be getting in from. I use a carboy, plastic bung and a 3 pc airlock. I do get good ferm, bubbling ect and like i said above i can taste it in my FG sample before i even rack to bottling bucket.

 

[VikeMan]

<deleted: Nevermind. Misread something.>

 

[Day-Day]

Part of it could be your liquid malt extract is old/stale..that's why you are tasting it before bottling, then bottling you're introducing oxygen, further increasing the stale/oxidized caramel flavor.

I'm personally not a fan of bottling IPA's, never had good results. You really, really need to minimize oxygen pickup (pressure/closed transfers) post fermentation with IPA's/Pale Ales...it makes all the difference. Bottling hoppy beers as a beginner is probably going to yeild poor results in general...you might want to try brewing and bottling something dark and see what happens.

Otherwise, try switching to all grain and kegging...you can find used equipment dirt cheap...people are practically giving the stuff away on Facebook Marketplace and Craigslist.

 

[phillygreen]

Day-Day,
Great info, thanks for the tips. I am switching to all grain and kegging real soon i will let you know.
Thanks again, everyone!