Sam Adam's Season Pack ... ehhh

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All you guys who can make "better" beer than Sam Adams are missing out. You could open your own brewery and start living the dream.:rolleyes:

_
 
I'm as beer of a beer snob as you'll find, spending outrageous amounts of money on silly, overhyped nonsense beers just because I love finding new awesome things. But Sam Adams is pretty damn good. Boston Lager is an excellent beer, as is Noble Pils. I thought the Rye was really good and could easily see myself drinking a ton of them.

They're going to start doing a single-hop series of their Latitude beers, which is a pretty incredible thing for a brewery that big to do. They're nowhere even CLOSE to being like one of the BMC breweries.
 
I dont like sam because they pretend to be innovative but they arent.

They need a new product line, that has double IPAs and stuff like that.

Also, they are the smallest of the big. Once you go public, and invest in mikes hard lemonad, you lost your craft brew status in my opinion. Now they have to focus on profit, not beer.
 
Sam adams was actually not the gateway beer for me. I am just very adventurous with trying new things. When I moved to my current location and found a liquor store (Binnys) that has more beer than I could imagine I just had to start trying new ones. It was about this time I started brewing as well, so it worked out well.

I like the Boston Lager, but none of them really blow me away so I typically steer away from Sam Adams. I still don't understand all the hype on the Noble Pils...I thought that beer was just bland and blah.
 
the noble pils i found to be refreshing. very clean and hoppy but not too much. i thought it was very well balanced.
(i dont know anything about styles really, i just liked it for the beer it was)
 
As most of you know, the ABA revised in January it's definition of "small" in its criteria for recognizing a brewer as a craft brewer. They did this largely to avoid having to disqualify Boston Beer (Sam Adams) as it was about to surpass 2 million barrels. Here's the board: Steve Bradt, Dick Cantwell, John Mallett, John Pinkerton, Gary Fish, Sam Calagione, Mark Edelson, Rob Tod, Eric Wallace, Chris Graham, Chris P. Frey, Nick Matt, Kim Jordan, Ken Grossman, Steve Hindy. A "heady" bunch of craft brewers, there. I'd call that a strongly implied vote of confidence for the brewery, its product and its contribution to the craft brewing industry.
 
I am a big fan of Sam Adams!

First of all Jim Koch almost by him self re introduced this country to beer with flavor!

Now there introducing "non beer snobs" to the possiblity of all the sepcialty ales and lagers, on a mass scale...look at it this way...just the ads the run are educating the masses on what makes a good beer...and that there is more choice out there.

No, I don't like all there beers, but as a fan of the American Craft Brewing industry I think they have led the way in may aspects.
 
doctorRobert said:
Once you go public, and invest in mikes hard lemonad, you lost your craft brew status in my opinion. Now they have to focus on profit, not beer.
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I'm actually thankful for Mike's. What the hell would every non-beer drinking girl drink, while you're sipping your HB? Beer tends to not remove panties quite as fast either :D. It's our version of all the baby boomer's Peach Schnapps.

I'm kidding, but Hard Lemonade is one recipe I can't make enough of.

Boston Lager is definitely unique and refreshing enough for me NOT to jump on the bandwagon. :mug:
 
scotched said:
I'm actually thankful for Mike's. What the hell would every non-beer drinking girl drink, while you're sipping your HB? Beer tends to not remove panties quite as fast either :D. It's our version of all the baby boomer's Peach Schnapps.

I'm kidding, but Hard Lemonade is one recipe I can't make enough of.

Boston Lager is definitely unique and refreshing enough for me NOT to jump on the bandwagon. :mug:
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Nothing wrong with hard lemonade - but dont go on TV telling everyone how much you love to make craft beer while behind the scenes you make flavored malt beverages and contract out most of your beer production.

Things I dont think Sierra Nevada would ever do \ Reasons why Sams isnt a craft brewer:

Make hard lemonade
Go Public
Pasteurize beer
Contract your beer making

Can somebody honestly tell me you're a craft brewer when you make malt beverages, go public, pasteurize your beer and contract it out? I'm not saying you cant do any of those things, just that a quality craft brewer wouldnt do ALL those things.

I'm also not saying you can't like Sam Adams. I love octoberfest, winter ale, and boston lager. But they crossed the line and their one of the big boys. How can you say theyre not one of the big boys when theyre the largest american owned brewery?
 
Pilgarlic said:
As most of you know, the ABA revised in January it's definition of "small" in its criteria for recognizing a brewer as a craft brewer. They did this largely to avoid having to disqualify Boston Beer (Sam Adams) as it was about to surpass 2 million barrels. Here's the board: Steve Bradt, Dick Cantwell, John Mallett, John Pinkerton, Gary Fish, Sam Calagione, Mark Edelson, Rob Tod, Eric Wallace, Chris Graham, Chris P. Frey, Nick Matt, Kim Jordan, Ken Grossman, Steve Hindy. A "heady" bunch of craft brewers, there. I'd call that a strongly implied vote of confidence for the brewery, its product and its contribution to the craft brewing industry.
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At the same time, most those "heady" brewers, can see themselves passing those same thresholds, and don't want to piss off a company that paved the way for the rest of them, and see an allegiance with SAM against BMC.

But its hard to be a craft brewer when you dont own your own company. Just sayin'. 9 million common shares outstanding, Jim has about 387k.... just sayin. (although he HAS to own MOST of the preferred shares - couldnt find that data on edgar)
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/949870/000114036110035607/xslF345X03/doc1.xml
 
Some of them may want to surpass that mark. I do think it's certainly true that they wanted Boston Beer's volume to stay in their reported industry production and market share numbers. Ownership, though, seems an odd criterion. Any craft brewer could be sold to passive partners. Size may be relevant, but I'm not at all sure it is to me.

Mosher defines craft beer (and I'm paraphrasing from "Radical Brewing") "If a homebrewer (past or current) gets to decide what the beer tastes like, it's craft beer."
 
Pilgarlic said:
Some of them may want to surpass that mark. I do think it's certainly true that they wanted Boston Beer's volume to stay in their reported industry production and market share numbers. Ownership, though, seems an odd criterion. Any craft brewer could be sold to passive partners. Size may be relevant, but I'm not at all sure it is to me.

Mosher defines craft beer (and I'm paraphrasing from "Radical Brewing") "If a homebrewer (past or current) gets to decide what the beer tastes like, it's craft beer."
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I agree with mosher. And once you go public, the bottom line and profit margins wil effect every decison. Read sams annual report and ask yourself if jim sounds like a craft brewer. Jim may decide what the beer tastes like, but he has to keep in mind his board of directors and stock holders. This is very different than a partnership or passive investors.
 
So is this now an argument about if sam adams is good to drink or if they have "sold out" to make a **** load of money? If I could make a product, and make money I would. It all comes down to taste, IMO some is great, some is good, and some is crap. It might not be the best, and it might be a larger company but in the end all I care about is the flavor. Once it is out of the bottle and in my glass there is no label.
 
First: "But its hard to be a craft brewer when you dont own your own company." Then: "he has to keep in mind his board of directors and stock holders. This is very different than a partnership or passive investors." Sounds like we agree: "Ownership, though, seems an odd criterion." I'll not defend the criterion of ownership. You offered it. I offered the passive investor counterexample. But wait, you seem to be limiting your objection to corporate ownership. You say you agree with Mosher, and you grant that Jim (a former home brewer) decides how the beer taste (case closed?) but wait, you must not agree with Mosher, because you qualify that by saying Jim has to listen to his board and stockholders. So it seems you don't agree with Mosher after all. Presumably the "taint" that comes from board and shareholder input is from things like "will it sell" and "does it cost too much to produce", et cetera.... are you saying things like this don't enter into the decisions of a craft brewer who is in business to make a profit (and, really, if it weren't to make a profit, wouldn't he still be in the garage like us)?
Back to the 12'er: I like the Pils, the lager and the White. I don't care for the Rye (way too subdued) or the Scotch.
 
atleast if you guys are arguing (debating) your doing it calmly. i hate when i read a thread that people have ruined with nonsense. so many people just want to be right, and don't care that it makes them look like a jerk. so kudos to you guys for setting a good example:mug:
 
My point is that they shouldnt be considered a craft brewery based on ownership and process. But that doesnt mean they cant make great beer. BMC makes great beer if you like light lagers.
 
Pilgarlic said:
First: "But its hard to be a craft brewer when you dont own your own company." Then: "he has to keep in mind his board of directors and stock holders. This is very different than a partnership or passive investors." Sounds like we agree: "Ownership, though, seems an odd criterion." I'll not defend the criterion of ownership. You offered it. I offered the passive investor counterexample. But wait, you seem to be limiting your objection to corporate ownership. You say you agree with Mosher, and you grant that Jim (a former home brewer) decides how the beer taste (case closed?) but wait, you must not agree with Mosher, because you qualify that by saying Jim has to listen to his board and stockholders. So it seems you don't agree with Mosher after all. Presumably the "taint" that comes from board and shareholder input is from things like "will it sell" and "does it cost too much to produce", et cetera.... are you saying things like this don't enter into the decisions of a craft brewer who is in business to make a profit (and, really, if it weren't to make a profit, wouldn't he still be in the garage like us)?
Back to the 12'er: I like the Pils, the lager and the White. I don't care for the Rye (way too subdued) or the Scotch.
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I agree with mosher. My point was it doesnt apply to koch because he cant truly decide on how to make his beer the same way a privately owned brewer would, he has additional considerations.
 
I'm sure you're right that Koch is subject to enormous pressures that don't apply to microbrewers. Given those pressures, his continuing ability to produce some very nice beers is to be applauded.
 
Pilgarlic said:
I'm sure you're right that Koch is subject to enormous pressures that don't apply to microbrewers. Given those pressures, his continuing ability to produce some very nice beers is to be applauded.
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I agree. I just think if they werent public maybe theyd have a double ipa or something, which wont have the profit margins because of hop prices.
 
The other thing to consider here is that Sam Adams never intended to be Sierra Nevada or any of the other real prolific craft breweries that are available now. The big thing they say on their commercials is "No one ever tasted an American beer with that kind of flavor" when Jim Koch introduced boston lager. If they had intended for their company to be one of these artisan super small breweries, they would have kept it that way.

They make mass produced beer for the masses because they want to make lots and lots of money. Good for them and God bless. Given that it's the largest american owned brewery, it's not a craft brewery, Unless every single american owned brewery (yuengling for example) is also a craft brewery. But, for mass produced beer, sam adams sure does make the best, and has the widest range of styles. For that side of the market, they're great.

The beer isn't gonna taste like something that's been bottle conditioned, or heavily dry hopped, or in any way loved and babied the way serious craft beer is. If that's what you were looking for, you bought the wrong beer. You just can't expect that level of specialized care to go into a product made by a company that big. But hey, there's a reason people eat mcdonalds instead of going to their local burger shop too. I don't always need a beer that was brewed with sixteen different types of hops and then bottle conditioned. sometimes i just want to knock a couple back and not spend 13 dollars a six pack but also not feel like i'm drinking cat piss. Sam adam's makes good beer for that. :mug:
 
I actually really like the Noble Pils its one of their better offerings. Had the Rev Rye on tap and it wasnt bad either. Their Irish Red sucks though
 
Deuce said:
The scotch ale is horrid. I can't decide if this is just not my style, or if this is a bad version of it.
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I was wondering that too. I bought a fall variety pack with that in it...the pumpkin was okay, dunkeweizen was okay....but I hated the black lager and scotch ale.

And then brewed a scotch ale which was good. It's definitely not my style, but that doesn't mean Sam's is good....it's not.
 
Oh I forgot mention this.

Jim Koch worked for Boston Consulting, has a Harvard MBA and JD - he wasnt a homebrewer aspiring to go pro - he saw an opportunity in the market to make money. Everything was calculated, even the name Sam Adams and Boston Lager - which was odd considering the first few years the beer wasnt made in boston nor was the company based there.

Jim was a business man, who hired the best brewers he could find (the man who 'invented' light lager, helped him), and was able to raise a lot of capital through his contacts. I think its a far stretch and calculated move by Jim Koch to claim he is a homebrewer. I'm sure he did brew at home. But I think that was more of an inspiration. His family had brewed that "boston" lager up until the 1950's. So his family was had a history of commercial brewing.

Here is another question - if you contract out your beer, are you still a craft brewer?

I dont mean to bash sam adams, I think they make a lot of quality beer. I love their blackberry wit and some others. But the 'craft' beer thing is a marketing maneuver. Theyre just like BMC, heineken, guiness, etc in my eyes. Doesnt mean they can't make great beer, I just wouldnt call them a craft brewery ( and I dont care how some association defines it)


America never tasted a beer like Sam Adams, except when it was brewed pre/post prohibition up until the 1940s.
 
I agree that the Irish red sucks big time.
Their scotch ale is awesome!
Boston Lager is good because it a change from typical BMC products. You can get Boston Lager almost anywhere in Vegas right alongside BMC products.
Revolution Rye Ale is OK.
 
I'm not sure he claimed he was a home brewer. Has he? I assumed he had been, and I may be wrong about that. I repeat. I may be wrong about that. I repeat. I may be wrong about that. (Had to do that! The times I'm inclined to say that are soooooo rare!)
 
Pilgarlic said:
I'm not sure he claimed he was a home brewer. Has he? I assumed he had been, and I may be wrong about that. I repeat. I may be wrong about that. I repeat. I may be wrong about that. (Had to do that! The times I'm inclined to say that are soooooo rare!)
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I thought there was a commercial out there where he talks about making the beer on his stove top. I also read a thing by him about how his swmbo got mad at him because he ruined the kitchen.

Edit: and he found the ancient recipe going through the attic or something like that.
 
Sen. John Kerry co-sponsors "Beer Act". Curious, just a few months ago BBC ran an advertising campaign reminding consumers that they make up 1% percent of the industry, John Kerry is from Massachusetts, BBC is out of Boston. One must ask, was this done to help protect BBC from paying higher taxes?
 
No secret there. "Kerry estimates the legislation would create jobs at many of the 1,600 small breweries across the country, which employ a total of 100,000 people. That includes several microbreweries in Massachusetts, such as Sam Adams, named for one of the Founding Fathers and a former governor of Massachusetts. The bill cuts the tax on the first 60,000 barrels of beer produced from $7 per barrel to $3.50."
 
jvcjbl said:
Hey.. their Triple Bock vintage 1995 is Amazing!!
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I know this post was a few days back, but... that's sarcasm. Right? I mean, there's a reason you can still buy those vile blue bottles full of salad dressing. This is one of two beers I've every dumped down the drain because I could not drink it. Nasty, nasty, stuff.

I like their doppelbock, and a lot of their seasonal line-up, though. Noble Pils, Latitude 48, I like those!
 

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