Saison recipe critique

[TurnipGreen]

I'm not a huge saison fan but I'd like to make one quick while it's still summer. Since I don't drink a lot of them and I've never made one I'm hoping folks that do can help critique my game plan here.

I'm shooting for something thirst quenching, maybe with a bit of pepper and or orange in the background.

Grains:
11# Belgian pils
1# German wheat malt
1/2# dark Munich
1/3# Rye malt

Hops
1.5 oz Saaz for 60 mins
1 oz mandarina Bavaria 15 min

I was thinking of using belle saison yeast or WLP530. Leaning heavy toward belle saison, based on discriptions and I'm kinda on a dry yeast kick.

So, three things I'm thinking about:
1. How's the recipe look for what I'm shooting for?

2. What sort of fermentation temperatures should I shoot for to coerce a pepper flavor out of belle saison? Or will the rye give enough bite that I don't need to worry about it?

3. I've used mandarina Bavaria before, but I haven't been very successful getting a lot of "tangerine goodness out of it". So any thoughts on that would be welcomed.

Thanks!

 

[BargainFittings]

Not sure I would use the dark munich malt.

Maybe some orange zest in the boil to get the background orange without relying on the hops. just a few strokes off a nice smelling orange.

Rye malt has a nice spice note so up that to a pound or so and it will play well with the saaz.

 

[m00ps]

I would get the munich out of there. To date, i've made 2 saisons I didnt like. 1 tasted like bandaids from large temps swings. 1 had munich in it. Never again, to either

I think if you are gonna use rye, you need a lot more. It isnt detectable at less than 10% IME

More than anything though, I would recommend using Belle Saison over WLP530. WLP530 will basically give you a belgian golden ale or trappist single, not a saison. Saisons are a style that is entirely defined by yeast. If you dont use a saison yeast, you arent making a saison

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Swap the dark Munich for light caramel/crystal I think would be closer to style. The hops sound good.

 

[TurnipGreen]

Thanks this is great feedback. I had the Munich in there more or less for a bit of color. If I drop the Munich and up the rye to 1.5 # to would look like this:
11# Belgian pils 82%
1.5# rye malt 11%
1# wheat malt 7%

I think I'll all skip the crystal or other dark malts to keep this dry and easy to drink. I'm more interested in coming hitting my pallet and trying out a saison yeast than hitting a style guide.

Now, I don't think I've ever used more that a pound of rye. I've read somewhere that too much rye can cause kind of an oily beer. Any trueth to that? I'd imagine 1.5# is not bumping whatever threshold that is.

How's about the hops? Does any one have experience with mandarina Bavaria? To pull out the tangerine profile. It's faint but it's there when I smell them out of the bag. I'm also not opposed to bargin fittings recommendation of adding a bit of actual orange toward the end of boil.

 

[BargainFittings]

The rye malt will not increase the body much until you hit over 20% It really is a good malt to add a bit of mouth feel even when the beer is really dry. The spicy character works well with saaz and other noble hops.

If you like the aroma of the mandarina bavaria hops go with that. The zest is a good way to get some clear citrus aroma in the nose because the oils will persist very well through the primary.

 

[Mohanz]

Looks good. I love saisons, my standard grain bill is usually 70% Pils, 20% wheat and 10% Vienna.
I would increase the wheat to 10-15% and leave the rye at around 10% then pils for the rest.

I cant comment on the yeast as i havent used those strains. I use WLP565 as my main Sasison yeast as i really like the character, otherwise WYeast 3711 -gives a great crisp dry saison.

Interested to see how it turns out, i want to use Rye in my next one

 

[TurnipGreen]

Would you believe my LHBS didn't have a single standard saison yeast left?!?!? They have a couple types with Brett in them but no standard sacc left.

so, I'm making a Belgian blonde, which I've also been meaning to do.

Looks like this brew will have to wait a couple weeks.