Feedback on non-alcoholic recipe and process

[aeviaanah]

Looking for some feedback on a recipe I put together for my first NA beer. Going for an easy drinking crisp beer- blonde ale hopefully lager-like.

I wanted to use a more complex base malt but had Pilsner on hand so I pumped up the specialty malts a bit.

Hops are reserved hoping for a balanced beer with slight aroma from Mandarina Bavaria.

Mashing at 176F so I’m assuming 45% mash efficiency. This is down from our typical 85% with standard conditions. Although I’d assume I could hit 95% with a beer like this mashed normally.

Water has increased chlorides for mouthfeel while keeping all other minerals reserved or there for yeast health etc. Due to the nature of this batch I plan on monitoring pH closely.

AEB Fermobrew Nectar is a yeast that I am unfamiliar with. It’s designed for arrested fermentation and I’ve confirmed it to be maltriose negative. It’s a fairly low attenuating yeast so I programmed 68%. Not sure how it’ll perform under these conditions.

Any suggestions or considerations? Has anyone used this yeast?

https://share.brewfather.app/HiGkkRvoVgsH4r

 

[AlexKay]

Recipe link doesn’t seem to work.

The yeast info page says it’s POF+, so to the extent you get a blonde, it will be likely more of a Belgian one.

My best low-ABV beers so far have been with a cold extraction followed by a hot mash. They end up between 1 and 3% usually.

For safety, once the beer is finished I keg it and keep it cold at all times. Picnic tap dispense only.

 

[aeviaanah]

Recipe link doesn’t seem to work.

The yeast info page says it’s POF+, so to the extent you get a blonde, it will be likely more of a Belgian one.

My best low-ABV beers so far have been with a cold extraction followed by a hot mash. They end up between 1 and 3% usually.

For safety, once the beer is finished I keg it and keep it cold at all times. Picnic tap dispense only.

My hunch was with the low OG, the POF+ trait wouldn’t be so prevalent. In other words a very small amount of esters/phenolics lending to the overall flavor of the beer but not jump out at you like a Belgian or similar beer would. I cannot substantiate this tho.

Not sure why Brewfather link share isn’t working. Have you compared your method to what I am describing?

Can you share a little process information on the cold extraction followed by the hot mash?

 

[AlexKay]

For my most recent 2.5-gallon batch, I put 6 pounds of Briess MaltGems in a BIAB bag into a kettle with 4 gallons of 40 F water, then circulated the water through, for an hour. The recirculation seems necessary to get enough flavor extraction, while the low temperature and limited time keep the cold mash from souring. After an hour, the water tasted pretty grainy and pleasant, with an SG of 1.005. (Cold = no gelatinization = very little solubilization of starch.)

(I pulled the grain bag and used it for the next batch of beer. The leftover cold-mashed grain has plenty of starch and not much flavor, and I make a second beer, usually a pale lager, using it as an adjunct.)

I brought the liquid from the first step to 160 F, added 0.75 pounds of Munich and 0.25 pounds of honey malt, and mashed for an hour. (I may experiment with ~170 F next time.) The liquid has a ton of enzymes from the cold steep.

I boiled as usual, with hop additions 1 g @ 60, 8 g @ 10, and 14 g hopstand, all Mosaic LUPOMAX (18% AA). Dry hopped with 33 g of the same.

OG was 1.018 post-boil. I added half a pound of inulin, which took it to 1.027 (but all of that should be unfermentable, and for that matter, practically undigestible, too.) I then added lactic acid to take the pH down to 4.2.

Lallemand Verdant fermented at 68 F took it down to 1.009 (corrected refractometer reading, so take it with a grain of salt.) That's 2.5% ABV, if correct.

I plan to do almost everything the same next batch. I'll probably cut the MaltGems down to 4 pounds and the Munich to half a pound. Might up the inulin a little. Or use a lower-attenuation yeast.

It was really good. Better than any commercial NA I've had, though of course it's not a fair comparison: it was higher-alcohol, fresher, and didn't get pasteurized.

 

[aeviaanah]

For my most recent 2.5-gallon batch, I put 6 pounds of Briess MaltGems in a BIAB bag into a kettle with 4 gallons of 40 F water, then circulated the water through, for an hour. The recirculation seems necessary to get enough flavor extraction, while the low temperature and limited time keep the cold mash from souring. After an hour, the water tasted pretty grainy and pleasant, with an SG of 1.005. (Cold = no gelatinization = very little solubilization of starch.)

(I pulled the grain bag and used it for the next batch of beer. The leftover cold-mashed grain has plenty of starch and not much flavor, and I make a second beer, usually a pale lager, using it as an adjunct.)

I brought the liquid from the first step to 160 F, added 0.75 pounds of Munich and 0.25 pounds of honey malt, and mashed for an hour. (I may experiment with ~170 F next time.) The liquid has a ton of enzymes from the cold steep.

I boiled as usual, with hop additions 1 g @ 60, 8 g @ 10, and 14 g hopstand, all Mosaic LUPOMAX (18% AA). Dry hopped with 33 g of the same.

OG was 1.018 post-boil. I added half a pound of inulin, which took it to 1.027 (but all of that should be unfermentable, and for that matter, practically undigestible, too.) I then added lactic acid to take the pH down to 4.2.

Lallemand Verdant fermented at 68 F took it down to 1.009 (corrected refractometer reading, so take it with a grain of salt.) That's 2.5% ABV, if correct.

I plan to do almost everything the same next batch. I'll probably cut the MaltGems down to 4 pounds and the Munich to half a pound. Might up the inulin a little. Or use a lower-attenuation yeast.

It was really good. Better than any commercial NA I've had, though of course it's not a fair comparison: it was higher-alcohol, fresher, and didn't get pasteurized.

Thankyou for taking the time to describe your process. Have you tried skipping the cold mash and mash at 176F like I am describing in original post? I'm curious what the cold mash brings to the table that a heated mash does not. I am targeting .5% so I can sell this as non alcoholic. I however will still be satisfied if I get .3-1.5% abv. I know how easy it is to be off .5% in brewing let alone it being a new process for me.

Interesting to hear you using inulin powder, I wasn't aware of this nor have I seen it used in brewing before. Why this as opposed to lactose or maltodextrin?

You brough pH to 4.2 prior to pitching? For standard beers we typically target 4.8-5.2 depending on whether we are dry hopping or not. Is the low starting pH targeted because the pH wont move so much due to the lower OG?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@AlexKay : interesting variation on "cold extraction" - 1 hr while recirculating.

Most brewers in the long running topic ("Low Enzymatic/Cold Mash/Low alcohol beer" - link) were doing an chilled overnight cold extraction (and not reporting souring).

I make a second beer, usually a pale lager, using it as an adjunct

How long is you brew day when you include this second beer?

 

[AlexKay]

Recirculation I got right from the Briess whitepaper. Faster is better, right? And it gave me an excuse to buy a cute little pump.

pH of 4.2 is for food safety. The idea is that fermentation won’t lower the pH much, so best to target the final value right away. I can’t remember why I picked 4.2 vs. 4.4 or something.

I started with hot mash only, but the beers were too thin and tasteless, and the attenuation still too high. I feel the cold mash actually does add graininess and body without adding starch. I haven’t done a side-by-side comparison, though.

I picked inulin because initially I was aiming for low-calorie as much as low-alcohol. Lactose and maltodextrin aren’t fermentable, but they are digestible. Inulin isn’t very. It’s more expensive, though. I think I found one or two papers in the brewing literature on it, but there certainly isn’t a lot out there.

@aeviaanah, you’re … selling it? Please look very carefully at the food safety issues before you do that. Packaged NA must be pasteurized. And draft systems generally won’t stay sanitary enough. Ethanol keeps microbes from growing, and lack of ethanol…

Two back-to-back beers, including the extra cold mash for the first, usually takes me about 10 hours. Stovetop BIAB, so it’s manageable. If I wanted to do them mostly side-by-side, that would speed things up a lot, but I’ve got things dialed in for one particular kettle on one specific burner.

 

[Brooothru]

Recirculation I got right from the Briess whitepaper. Faster is better, right? And it gave me an excuse to buy a cute little pump.

pH of 4.2 is for food safety. The idea is that fermentation won’t lower the pH much, so best to target the final value right away. I can’t remember why I picked 4.2 vs. 4.4 or something.

I started with hot mash only, but the beers were too thin and tasteless, and the attenuation still too high. I feel the cold mash actually does add graininess and body without adding starch. I haven’t done a side-by-side comparison, though.

I picked inulin because initially I was aiming for low-calorie as much as low-alcohol. Lactose and maltodextrin aren’t fermentable, but they are digestible. Inulin isn’t very. It’s more expensive, though. I think I found one or two papers in the brewing literature on it, but there certainly isn’t a lot out there.

@aeviaanah, you’re … selling it? Please look very carefully at the food safety issues before you do that. Packaged NA must be pasteurized. And draft systems generally won’t stay sanitary enough. Ethanol keeps microbes from growing, and lack of ethanol…

Two back-to-back beers, including the extra cold mash for the first, usually takes me about 10 hours. Stovetop BIAB, so it’s manageable. If I wanted to do them mostly side-by-side, that would speed things up a lot, but I’ve got things dialed in for one particular kettle on one specific burner.

Food safety calls for a pH < 4.6. Did 4.2 with lactic acid end up being tart or puckered? Phosphoric might be more neutral.

I hadn’t even thought about using MaltGems. I have used it more than a few times to cut down on vegetal ‘bulk’ when mashing for a high OG wort, rather than using LME/DME to boost gravity. I’m surprised Briess didn’t do pilot brew with MaltGems. Seems like it would work really well 50/50% in a NEM.

 

[aeviaanah]

Recirculation I got right from the Briess whitepaper. Faster is better, right? And it gave me an excuse to buy a cute little pump.

pH of 4.2 is for food safety. The idea is that fermentation won’t lower the pH much, so best to target the final value right away. I can’t remember why I picked 4.2 vs. 4.4 or something.

I started with hot mash only, but the beers were too thin and tasteless, and the attenuation still too high. I feel the cold mash actually does add graininess and body without adding starch. I haven’t done a side-by-side comparison, though.

I picked inulin because initially I was aiming for low-calorie as much as low-alcohol. Lactose and maltodextrin aren’t fermentable, but they are digestible. Inulin isn’t very. It’s more expensive, though. I think I found one or two papers in the brewing literature on it, but there certainly isn’t a lot out there.

@aeviaanah, you’re … selling it? Please look very carefully at the food safety issues before you do that. Packaged NA must be pasteurized. And draft systems generally won’t stay sanitary enough. Ethanol keeps microbes from growing, and lack of ethanol…

Two back-to-back beers, including the extra cold mash for the first, usually takes me about 10 hours. Stovetop BIAB, so it’s manageable. If I wanted to do them mostly side-by-side, that would speed things up a lot, but I’ve got things dialed in for one particular kettle on one specific burner.

We were considering serving it on draft but not putting it into cans so thankyou for bringing this to my attention. Ah so what you’re saying is due to the lack of ethanol, it may harbor bacterial growth? Most of this decision was for me to have an NA beer on draft at the brewery for healthier options. If I decide to do a small batch for personal use (a few kegs) is there anything I can do to ensure a safer product? In other words what are home brewers doing to mitigate these concerns? I don’t think I have the equipment to pasteurize properly. I might be able to heat it up to 140-170 for a desired amount of time and then package in the kegs?

 

[mashdar]

We were considering serving it on draft but not putting it into cans so thankyou for bringing this to my attention. Ah so what you’re saying is due to the lack of ethanol, it may harbor bacterial growth? Most of this decision was for me to have an NA beer on draft at the brewery for healthier options. If I decide to do a small batch for personal use (a few kegs) is there anything I can do to ensure a safer product? In other words what are home brewers doing to mitigate these concerns? I don’t think I have the equipment to pasteurize properly. I might be able to heat it up to 140-170 for a desired amount of time and then package in the kegs?

Consult an expert (Health department? Industry group?), but I believe the low pH will make it safe with reasonable cleanliness and care. AFAIK, pH<4.6 is a requirement for non-refrigerated food products generally. However, I have read that with the relatively high protein levels in brewing, pH <4.4 is safer.

 

[AlexKay]

You could consult experts, or you could Google! Recent paper. Also, I’ve listened to a few Master Brewer’s Podcasts on NA. I can’t remember if this one has safety and handling information, but all of them have been pretty interesting.

Pasteurization before kegging doesn’t seem like a great idea. The draft system itself will introduce contamination. If there’s a way to serve from a picnic tap (that can be cleaned daily) it’s worth looking into.

The thing we always tell each other as homebrewers is that nothing that can hurt you is able to grow in beer. The problem is that some of the things that can hurt you (Clostridium, Salmonella) will grow in NA just fine.

Another tip is to make a high quality hop seltzer, and have the bartender then mix that half-and-half with a session (4%) beer, in the glass. This also has the distinct advantage of being cheaper than straight beer (while NA, for all the extra trouble it involves, often ends up at the same price to produce, or even more expensive.)

 

[pigroaster]

Thanks for everyone's input. I want to try some new yeast products soon developed my way ( Canada) from Escarpment labs called NAY (ABV=.3%)( maltose-negative yeast for commercial brewers) and it is non-phenolic and non-diastatic. They have HYdra yeast for home brewers ABV + 1.3%
They provide a guide to making NA beer as well. info@escarpment labs.com. More info as I try their lab methods in terms of homebrewing challenges I might encounter!

 

[Brooothru]

Thanks for everyone's input. I want to try some new yeast products soon developed my way ( Canada) from Escarpment labs called NAY (ABV=.3%)( maltose-negative yeast for commercial brewers) and it is non-phenolic and non-diastatic. They have HYdra yeast for home brewers ABV + 1.3%
They provide a guide to making NA beer as well. info@escarpment labs.com. More info as I try their lab methods in terms of homebrewing challenges I might encounter!

Thanks for the Escarpment link. It was very informative. The "Guide to Making Non-Alcoholic Beer" .pdf was a roadmap of "how" as well as hazards to avoid. But I got the distinct impression that they didn't advise home brewers to use their NAY yeast, nor do they make it available in other than 'brewery sized' pitch volumes. The Hydra yeast seems like the safer alternative for brewing a beer in the 1.0~1.5% ABV range, even though I'd like to go lower. Their advice and safety recommendations and protocols were direct and to the point, and also cited the low pH target levels and sanitation needed to avoid 'problems'.

Although I pride myself in keeping a sanitary brewing environment and clean equipment, I'm not sure I feel completely comfortable undertaking this process without stepping up my game even further. I believe that I can mitigate any inherent risks, but how can I be sure?

 

[pigroaster]

I plan to find out using their lab to test results of trying to set up a homebrew method that is a good roadmap. I am also going to see if I can test their commercial yeast for evaluation/taste. This will be my 53 rd year brewing so not my first rodeo!