I brewed a Saison extract kit from AHS.. It was supposed to be a session brew kit, but it ended up taking 3 weeks to ferment out to 1.009.. I had to move into the garage to get the heat up to almost 80deg after 2 weeks being stuck at 1.015 @74deg.. After it finished, I cold crashed it for 3 days before bottling. After being in the bottle for 3 weeks I put one in the fridge to test, it was very low carbed and had a very weird taste. I don't think aweful is the right word, but definitely not my favorite taste. I let it sit for another week and put another in the fridge.. Better carb, but still this weird flavor - almost a champagne kinda flavor. I don't know if I've ever had a commercial Saison to compare to.. I want to try a Saison to compare and see if I just picked a style I don't like or if I screwed something up along the way... Whats a good Saison to try?
Saison Extract - yuck
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smizak
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Champagne flavor is not far off. A saison is historically a pretty funky, fruity farmhouse ale. Saison yeast strains are most likely modified wine yeast strains.
A great commercial example is Saison Dupont. The standard to which all saisons should be judged, IMO.
A great commercial example is Saison Dupont. The standard to which all saisons should be judged, IMO.
guitarsophist
Member
Yes, Saison Dupont is the reference point. Very dry, lots of interesting flavors, but very different.
John
John
wyzazz
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I'd be willing to bet that you just don't like a Saison, I'm not too fond of them myself. I make it a point to try a commercial example of the beer styles I brew (if I've never had them before), this keeps me from having 5 gallons of something sitting around forever.
CortexBomb
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Also, in a grander sense, it makes sense to be familiar with the style, if at all possible, so you can judge whether or not the recipe was a good one, if it fits your particular tastes for that style, &c.
Some styles really are almost impossible to find in certain areas of the country, but if you can find a sample or two, it will definitely help you when you're trying to brew it yourself.
wyzazz
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CortexBomb
Well-Known Member
Always a good idea, and especially good with a weird style like Saison...there really is a lot of variety, it really was just a seasonal, light beer originally, so there have been a lot of different takes on it over the years. One of my personal favourite styles when it's done right, but it's probably on the acquired taste scale of things.
BrookdaleBrew
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I should note that I try at least 2 commercial examples just in case...
Good point. Before I brewed my Kolsch, I tried 6 commercial examples (thank you 'create your own 6 pack') and found out how much the style could vary. From very clean, lager-like German examples to very fruity American examples (looking your way Ballast Point.)
I decided I wanted mine to be more like the German examples, so I fermented very low and plan to "lager" in the bottle for over a month before drinking.
jonbomb
Well-Known Member
Mmmm Saison dupont...
Used to split a big bottle of that with a coworker after a long night as a barback.
BlueSunshine
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I just made an extract saison and it tastes way "off" too. I had a hard time getting it to finish (stuck at 1.020) and I pitched some notty to finish it off. It just turned out gross and tasting like cardboard and it was also very low carbed.
I gave it to some friends at a party after we were kinda toasty and they loved it though. Then again they were drinking Miller Lite before that.
I gave it to some friends at a party after we were kinda toasty and they loved it though. Then again they were drinking Miller Lite before that.
BrookdaleBrew
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Cardboard would typically be an oxidation issue. Also, Saisons are supposed to finish extremely dry, so I'd imagine one that finished at 1.02 is going to be way too malty.
I have yet to meet a beer I didn't like, so I didn't think it was possible. This kit was a last minute impulse buy.. It was supposed to be a quick batch and I figured I would try something different. I'll be making sure I buy a few commercial brews before making any other styles I've never tried before. Live and learn. Out of about 40 batches so far, this is the first one I haven't been happy with. I shouldn't complain. I'll let it sit for awhile and see what happens.
I don't like saisons, and it sounds like you've hit the style perfectly! I bet it'll be very drinkable on a 90 degree day, though and you may find that your friends like it.
The reason I went for this was I saw a few posts about how good this was on a hot summer day.. Unfortunately, our hot days lately include super humidity.. there is nothing that tastes good in that kind of heat. I hope I can pawn it off on some of my buddies..
BrookdaleBrew
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I beg to differ, hahaha. There is nothing like a nice, hoppy pilsner after a hot, humid day working in the yard.
craigd
Well-Known Member
Saison is a pretty broad style actually. I've had commercial examples that range in color and malt character from almost a pilsner to a light brown ale and some with a honey nose. Bitterness levels from barely balanced to IPA levels (but usually has some good hop aroma at least.) The style is mostly defined by its spicy, fruity yeast character. My personal favorite is Hennepin by Ommegang but I'm in the minority. It was my first saison so I guess I have a sentimental attachment.
impur
Well-Known Member
My first brew was a partial mash ale and i must have pitched the yeast at a too high temp so there are esters. To me it tastes exactly like a Saison, which i do not like. Its good to cook with though.
I was moving my stock pile around a bit, and the notes from my Saison fell out of the box.. I forgot that when I moved the carboy to the garage I still couldn't get it to drop.. I added a sachet of champagne yeast to get it to drop the rest of the way.. That may have something to do with some of my flavor issues as well, although the post I saw it in said it shouldn't affect the taste..
craigd
Well-Known Member
I really think you should not brew a saison if you don't know what to expect. That characteristic yeast profile can shock you if you aren't ready. Think of your first hefeweizen or Belgian Triple...
I haven't done a hefe yet, pretty much for that reason.. I did make a Trippel after I tasted one, but the one I made didn't taste much like the one I tasted.. I'm going to have to spend some time looking at the single beers in the store..
ReverseApacheMaster
Well-Known Member
I think the valuable lesson you learned here was no matter how awesome people say a style is, don't brew 5 gallons of it to see if you like it or not.
Saisons can be strange brews to drink. They are brewed with many techniques uncommon to other beer styles. They can feature a variety of spices (such as black pepper), they can be hoppy (or not), and often feature funky flavors due to bacteria in the fermentation, high temperature femerntations, or both. You may want to try to seek out a bottle of Saison Dupont or another saison and give that a try to see what your thoughts are and how close your beer came.
I understand that saisons brewed with extract tend not to be as good as AG versions, but I have no experience tasting them side by side.
Saisons can be strange brews to drink. They are brewed with many techniques uncommon to other beer styles. They can feature a variety of spices (such as black pepper), they can be hoppy (or not), and often feature funky flavors due to bacteria in the fermentation, high temperature femerntations, or both. You may want to try to seek out a bottle of Saison Dupont or another saison and give that a try to see what your thoughts are and how close your beer came.
I understand that saisons brewed with extract tend not to be as good as AG versions, but I have no experience tasting them side by side.
Honestly, I've never tasted a homebrew Saison that came even remotely close to Saison Dupont.
guitarsophist
Member
I just did a gravity reading of an extract Saison (my first) that has been in the fermenter for three weeks. It is at 1.014 or so, which is high for a Saison. I was expecting much hotter weather in California than we are having, so it has probably been at around 71 for the whole time. The sample tastes pretty good, but a little sweeter than it should be, and not much complexity. I will probably bottle it in a couple of days. I think with some bottle conditioning it will be quite pleasant, but nothing like Saison Dupont, so I am a little disappointed. Belgian yeasts are fickle and finicky, it seems.
smizak
Well-Known Member
Try as I might, I can't even get remotely close either. There is something else going on with that stuff....
Well, I bought the Saison Dumont on Friday.. I drank it today, and I gotta say it was much better than what I made.. It did have a skunk kinda taste to it.. not sure if its supposed to or the bottle I bought was bad.. I couldn't get past the Heinken kinda taste of the skunk.. Mine is definitely more fruity, flat champagne kinda taste.. Oh well.. can't like them all I guess. I think I'll save this one for the moochers...
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