Rubber taste

[mlandon98]

Taste buds are only a fraction of the perception of taste and it is not uncommon at all for people to experience a taste differently.
Have you tried comparing your brew to a close commercial version, do you perceive the taste in only your brew?
Also, you mention you didn't taste at bottling. That might be a good tool for isolating the origin of the off taste.
Try tasting Strike water, First Wort, Boiled wort, cooled wort into the fermentor and just after pitching pre-ferment. You might be able to identify when it is introduced and that will help narrow the scope of the investigation.

You're right, sense of smell is more important. Luckily, it tastes as horrible as it smells which means there's no confusion there, and I'm certain you would agree if you could only taste it. But then again, maybe I have that long covid and my senses are out of whack forever (ha).

I like beer. I've been drinking beer for a long time, and I've tried lots of types of it. The taste can only mean that something is horribly wrong, and only a few people agree because I'm only willing to let a few people taste it. There is nothing to compare the taste to except substances that don't belong in it.

 

[jtratcliff]

I have had the burnt rubber off-flavor. It is very distinctly burnt rubber.
It doesn't age out.

I haven't figured out the cause or the solution. Though I, too, have suspected temperature.
I ferment in a bucket , in a swamp cooler w/ ice packs, in a 60-70F basement.

I didn't always get it, though. My earlier brews were burnt rubber-free... Which
makes me suspect something else.

My recent Xmas ale didn't have it. But my APA did.... Frustrating.

 

[homebeerbrewer]

I am glad to see that you're so sure about the temperature issue because that is the fix I am settling in on now. Did you have a similar problem to mine at one point?

I haven't had the issue myself, but when I worked at the homebrew shop, a lot of people brought samples to ask us where they went wrong. After asking questions of their processes, ingredients, and cleaning and sanitizing, fermentation temp was almost always the culprit. Reading your posts in this thread, temperature is my conclusion. Everything else about brewing is flexible, but fermentation temp isn't.

 

[mlandon98]

I have had the burnt rubber off-flavor. It is very distinctly burnt rubber.
It doesn't age out.

I haven't figured out the cause or the solution. Though I, too, have suspected temperature.
I ferment in a bucket , in a swamp cooler w/ ice packs, in a 60-70F basement.

I didn't always get it, though. My earlier brews were burnt rubber-free... Which
makes me suspect something else.

My recent Xmas ale didn't have it. But my APA did.... Frustrating.

You're having the exact issue I'm having, to the word. Like we've established here, if your temperature outside the fermenter is 60F at minimum, then your temperature inside the fermenter is at least 65F because yeast activity increases temperature inside by 5-15F. So it is more likely that your basement averages 65F and your fermenter averages 75F. The ideal range for most yeasts we use peaks out at 68F so basically we have either been pushing our yeast to or beyond the limit most of the time.

 

[superiorsat]

S-04 is weird fruity above the recommended temperature. If you don't taste the burnt rubber at bottlings it is coming after that point. What is the temperature where you keep your bottles? Sun/light exposure? You know anyone that could keg a batch for you as a comparison?

 

[mlandon98]

S-04 is weird fruity above the recommended temperature. If you don't taste the burnt rubber at bottlings it is coming after that point. What is the temperature where you keep your bottles? Sun/light exposure? You know anyone that could keg a batch for you as a comparison?

My bottles are kept in the same conditions, which I will be changing (65F, dark bottles in a box) but from what I've read, keeping bottles even as high as 80F isn't a problem, but I wouldn't let my bottles get to 80F unless I thought it was somehow beneficial.

Perhaps the taste doesn't set in until bottling. I know that may seem nonsensical but stranger things have happened.

 

[Biggz1313]

I agree with all the fermentation temp folks, but one more thing to think about: What is your pitch rate for all these beers? Burnt rubber usually means stressed yeast where temp can be a cause of that and so can too low of a pitch rate. I didn't see you mention what size batches you are making but you should pitch enough yeast for whatever size batch you're brewing. I saw you said you were using S-04, did you plug your recipe into a yeast calculator to see if you should be using a starter?

Edit: Also, how long is your beer in the fermenter, and then how long is it in bottles before you're consuming it?

 

[mlandon98]

I agree with all the fermentation temp folks, but one more thing to think about: What is your pitch rate for all these beers? Burnt rubber usually means stressed yeast where temp can be a cause of that and so can too low of a pitch rate. I didn't see you mention what size batches you are making but you should pitch enough yeast for whatever size batch you're brewing. I saw you said you were using S-04, did you plug your recipe into a yeast calculator to see if you should be using a starter?

Edit: Also, how long is your beer in the fermenter, and then how long is it in bottles before you're consuming it?

Ah, yes, I forgot to write about my pitch rate. I do not remember the numbers and I am not home to look at the packet. With whatever yeast I am using (usually Safale), there is a range on the package. I always determine what the middle of that range is and add slightly more. So for simplicity's sake, let's say a given recipe calls for between 1.0 and 1.1 grams of yeast. I will add 1.051 or something.

I have never used a starter, but I have had success pitching Safale this way, and it is the only way I have ever done it. Under what circumstances might a starter by necessary?

My beer ferments for approximately 2-3 weeks (time hasn't affected taste) and I check one bottle after 5-7 days to ensure carbonation is taking place but don't start drinking until 2 weeks, and time doesn't fix rubber taste.

 

[Biggz1313]

Ah, yes, I forgot to write about my pitch rate. I do not remember the numbers and I am not home to look at the packet. With whatever yeast I am using (usually Safale), there is a range on the package. I always determine what the middle of that range is and add slightly more. So for simplicity's sake, let's say a given recipe calls for between 1.0 and 1.1 grams of yeast. I will add 1.051 or something.

I have never used a starter, but I have had success pitching Safale this way, and it is the only way I have ever done it. Under what circumstances might a starter by necessary?

My beer ferments for approximately 2-3 weeks (time hasn't affected taste) and I check one bottle after 5-7 days to ensure carbonation is taking place but don't start drinking until 2 weeks, and time doesn't fix rubber taste.

Ok, so Safale is typically 1 packet (11.5g) for 20-30L of wort. Do you brew that size batches (5-8 Gallons) and if so, are you pitching the whole packet of yeast?

Here is site with picture of packet and instructions: SafAle S-04 English Ale Dry Yeast (Whitbread Strain)

 

[mlandon98]

Ok, so Safale is typically 1 packet (11.5g) for 20-30L of wort. Do you brew that size batches (5-8 Gallons) and if so, are you pitching the whole packet of yeast?

Here is site with picture of packet and instructions: SafAle S-04 English Ale Dry Yeast (Whitbread Strain)

I never make more than 3 gallons at a time. I re-do the math every time because it is easy so there is no way that I am using an improper amount every single time. My luck is bad but not that bad. The amount of yeast I add actually varies slightly according to how I feel when I pitch it.

 

[Biggz1313]

I never make more than 3 gallons at a time. I re-do the math every time because it is easy so there is no way that I am using an improper amount every single time. My luck is bad but not that bad. The amount of yeast I add actually varies slightly according to how I feel when I pitch it.

How do you store the leftover yeast? How long is said yeast stored for before it's potentially used again?

 

[mlandon98]

How do you store the leftover yeast? How long is said yeast stored for before it's potentially used again?

Keep in mind this is a problem with new yeast packets as well, but I do need to be more careful about keeping the packet clean. I do not soak my packet before opening, what I do is open the packet with scissors (I just realized typing this that I do not sterilize my scissors and because of my complete lack of evidence of contamination I do not think it has been a problem, again I have had success in the past) but what I do is wipe the top of the opened packet with alcohol and then seal the plastic with a lighter, like a crack sack.

 

[Biggz1313]

Keep in mind this is a problem with new yeast packets as well, but I do need to be more careful about keeping the packet clean. I do not soak my packet before opening, what I do is open the packet with scissors (I just realized typing this that I do not sterilize my scissors and because of my complete lack of evidence of contamination I do not think it has been a problem, again I have had success in the past) but what I do is wipe the top of the opened packet with alcohol and then seal the plastic with a lighter, like a crack sack.

ok yeah likely not the culprit but just one more thing to be careful about. Also, I'ma steal that idea for resealing the packet, never thought of that

 

[Velnerj]

Well, I've ran into this exact problem. Tried to solve it with temp control but they didn't fix it either. Although still glad I made that upgrade. For me it was Camden tablets (or in my case K2S2O5 powder). You can't boil out chloramines, the only easy way is Camden, reaction occurs almost instantly. I'm not certain of all your water sources but it's a cheap and easy solution to try.

I never had this issue until I brewed a cream ale, then it appeared again in a heffeweizen. My previous brews were darker or hopper beers that masked this off flavor. I tried controlling fermentation temperature but it still showed up. I was finally able to solve it with K2S2O5 and haven't had the problem since.

 

[Mikey B]

Have you tried running a blank. Hence only water through the process to see how it tastes? Sounds stupid but it could be of value. This is a common practice in chemistry to determine where a problem may be occurring. You can also perform iterations to narrow down the issue. Your mileage may vary.

 

[mlandon98]

ok yeah likely not the culprit but just one more thing to be careful about. Also, I'ma steal that idea for resealing the packet, never thought of that

I like it because heat kills

 

[mlandon98]

Well, I've ran into this exact problem. Tried to solve it with temp control but they didn't fix it either. Although still glad I made that upgrade. For me it was Camden tablets (or in my case K2S2O5 powder). You can't boil out chloramines, the only easy way is Camden, reaction occurs almost instantly. I'm not certain of all your water sources but it's a cheap and easy solution to try.

I never had this issue until I brewed a cream ale, then it appeared again in a heffeweizen. My previous brews were darker or hopper beers that masked this off flavor. I tried controlling fermentation temperature but it still showed up. I was finally able to solve it with K2S2O5 and haven't had the problem since.

I was really hoping it was temperature, and it may be, but this post is still disconcerting. It seems like my problem is either a lack of campden or an excess of degrees Fahrenheit, both of which I will change in my next batch.

 

[jtratcliff]

You're having the exact issue I'm having, to the word. Like we've established here, if your temperature outside the fermenter is 60F at minimum, then your temperature inside the fermenter is at least 65F because yeast activity increases temperature inside by 5-15F. So it is more likely that your basement averages 65F and your fermenter averages 75F. The ideal range for most yeasts we use peaks out at 68F so basically we have either been pushing our yeast to or beyond the limit most of the time.

I swap out frozen water bottles on the swamp cooler for the first couple of days. The stick-on LCD fermometer indicates that I maintain under 65F. Then I let it free rise to whatever ambient is at the time. (58-64ish in winter, 65-70ish in the summer).

And in my case, I don't think it's chlorine/chloramine... I dose all my filtered water (mash & sparge) w/ 1/2 tab of campden.

And for pitch rate, I usually pitch a full packet of US-05 or Notty (rehydratd) for ~6 gal. batch...
Hmm... not sure if happens w/ both yeasts.... Need to check my notes.

That's why it so frustrating... it *shouldn't* be temp (swamp cooler)... it *shouldn't* be chlorine/chloramine (campden)...
Didn't used to happen.

I just got a new fermenter. We'll see if that solves anything. Might be time to replace all my cold-side equipment.

 

[mlandon98]

Have you tried running a blank. Hence only water through the process to see how it tastes? Sounds stupid but it could be of value. This is a common practice in chemistry to determine where a problem may be occurring. You can also perform iterations to narrow down the issue. Your mileage may vary.

I swap out frozen water bottles on the swamp cooler for the first couple of days. The stick-on LCD fermometer indicates that I maintain under 65F. Then I let it free rise to whatever ambient is at the time. (58-64ish in winter, 65-70ish in the summer).

And in my case, I don't think it's chlorine/chloramine... I dose all my filtered water (mash & sparge) w/ 1/2 tab of campden.

And for pitch rate, I usually pitch a full packet of US-05 or Notty (rehydratd) for ~6 gal. batch...
Hmm... not sure if happens w/ both yeasts.... Need to check my notes.

That's why it so frustrating... it *shouldn't* be temp (swamp cooler)... it *shouldn't* be chlorine/chloramine (campden)...
Didn't used to happen.

I just got a new fermenter. We'll see if that solves anything. Might be time to replace all my cold-side equipment.

Oh no.

 

[hotbeer]

IMO, for 3 gallons of wort with US-04 then 5.7 to 9 grams will be a more proper pitch.

Not certain I quite understand how much you actually pitched or if 3 gallons was the actual quantity you pitched to.

 

[mlandon98]

IMO, for 3 gallons of wort with US-04 then 5.7 to 9 grams will be a more proper pitch.

Not certain I quite understand how much you actually pitched or if 3 gallons was the actual quantity you pitched to.

I never said how much yeast I pitch because I don't remember. The numbers I gave were hypothetical

 

[Home_Brew_2022]

I may have missed it but you didn't mention what you use for carbonation.
My brewing process is very similar to yours and out of 65+ batches in the last year and a half or so I've never had this issue.
I use S05 on probably 80% of my beers. Some German yeasts and some of the NEIPA oriented yeasts.
I do not use temperature control for any of them because of space constraints.

I've seen the advice that if you can't control your fermentation temperatures then choose yeasts that work for your environment.

Is it possible your bottles are contaminated? It is very tedious but I soak my bottles in an Oxy clean solution to remove the labels and then use a stiff scrub brush on the inside and outside. They then get rinsed with very hot tap water and then sanitized right before bottling. I've also found that certain bottle labels have a nasty adhesive that leaves a film on everything so I avoid those kinds. (Stone for instance)

 

[mlandon98]

I may have missed it but you didn't mention what you use for carbonation.

Is it possible your bottles are contaminated? It is very tedious but I soak my bottles in an Oxy clean solution to remove the labels and then use a stiff scrub brush on the inside and outside. They then get rinsed with very hot tap water and then sanitized right before bottling. I've also found that certain bottle labels have a nasty adhesive that leaves a film on everything so I avoid those kinds. (Stone for instance)

I know, this thread is getting pretty long. I use priming sugar for bottling. I have never had a beer with this off flavor that was also over or under-carbonated.

Contaminated bottles probably can't be the issue. I have had this issue with bottles straight out of the box. I have a combination of reused bottles and virgin bottles from the homebrew store. Labels probably aren't a problem either.