Rollin the dice on old washed yeast

[whitehause]

Welp....cold as hell here in PA, so I decided to pass on the outside keggle brew and pull out the old BIAB gear and do an inside brew tomorrow. I have a big gas stove that can do full boil BIAB, so screw that freezing my ass off.

The one problem I've run across is that I'm out of my emergency US-05 packs that I try to keep around for spur of the moment brews, and I don't have time for a starter. I do however have a bunch of washed yeast. One in particular is a quart size mason with about 1 1/2" of Conan. The down side is that it was harvested in April. The yeast still looks nice and white, so I'll give it a go and see how it works out.

Here's a pic of the yeast

 

[Cyclman]

Good luck!

 

[theck]

Wondering got a mason in my fridge from a few months ago I was going to toss into a cider.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[whitehause]

Wondering got a mason in my fridge from a few months ago I was going to toss into a cider.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Home Brew mobile app

The biggest reason I "think" I'll be ok is that this jar has a ton of yeast in it. Most of my other jars are only a 1/2" or so in 1/2 pint jars and it's just not enough. That's a quart jar with probably half a pound of yeast in it.

 

[kh54s10]

Also, good luck. Even with the amount of yeast there, I expect it will ferment the beer but you will have such low viability in the yeast that you will have a very slow fermentation and a lot of off flavors produced while the yeast reproduce to cell counts sufficient to ferment the wort.

 

[rodwha]

Can you produce a starter for it?

 

[TANSTAAFB]

I have used washed yeast that is over a year old with great results, but always with a starter. I live in BFE and often have the same problem with impromptu brew days. I have made a habit of brewing, collecting extra wort, sticking my carboy in my fermentation fridge and dropping the temps to inhibit anything growing that I don't want to, using the extra wort to at least wake up the yeastie beasties (I wait until I have krausen), and then pitch the starter, usually about a day later. With solid sanitation I've never had any problems and I think I avoid off flavors by treating the yeast right. Just my two cents

 

[whitehause]

Can you produce a starter for it?

Not enough time.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Most starters only need about 24hrs to reach maximum cell growth...

 

[whitehause]

I plan to "wake em up" a bit with a little wort, but don't have time for a proper starter. I figure there are enough dead ones they can feed on once they're up and moving.

 

[whitehause]

Well....I said screw it and made a starter, guess I'll brew tomorrow.

 

[rodwha]

I think that was a good choice! Better to know they are doing well than to hope.

 

[hotspurdotus]

You said you had a bunch of washed yeast jars, right? You could have thrown 2-3 of them in there and let them duke it out!

 

[whitehause]

You said you had a bunch of washed yeast jars, right? You could have thrown 2-3 of them in there and let them duke it out!

I almost thought about that, but my yeast bank is all harvested yeast. I didn't want Pacman, Bells, Conan, and Chimay fighting.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

I almost thought about that, but my yeast bank is all harvested yeast. I didn't want Pacman, Bells, Conan, and Chimay fighting.

Might have been the ultimate super beer with those strains! Now the world will never know...

 

[whitehause]

Just to update if any one is interested.

Yeast was Conan (Heady Topper) and was washed on April 14 of 2013, so about 9 months old. Kept in a mason jar in keezer.

Brew is my own creation called Honey Badger using Pale ale, Vienna, aromatic, and honey malt. Magnum for bittering and 4 Citra additions(not including dry hop). Og was 1.070.

I did a 24hr 1L starter on stir plate with 1.040 wort and pitched at 65 deg. I started with a good amount of yeast, probably the equivalent of 2 vials.

Started getting positive pressure in the airlock after 5 hours, and after 13 hrs the airlock is bubbling away and all looks good.

 

[rodwha]

What would you classify that beer as?

I'm unfamiliar with Vienna and Aromatic.

How much honey malt are you using? And how much honey flavor does that give you?

I must have missed the part about it being frozen yeast. I have sometimes been able to revive 4 mo old refrigerated yeast.

 

[whitehause]

What would you classify that beer as?

I'm unfamiliar with Vienna and Aromatic.

How much honey malt are you using? And how much honey flavor does that give you?

I must have missed the part about it being frozen yeast. I have sometimes been able to revive 4 mo old refrigerated yeast.

The yeast wasn't frozen, it was in my keezer (chest freezer turned into a kegerator) so it was at about 40deg for 9 months.

I would put the beer in the category of an APA (American pale ale).

I use Vienna in a few of my beers, it gives a nice copper/orange color and adds a little complexity. It's kilned a little longer than regular pale malt, and adds just a touch of toast which can help compliment the standard malt.

Aromatic or Melanoidin (same malts different makers) Helps with color and mouthfeel, it also adds a malt aroma without adding much sweetness so you can still have a dry beer (which I like in my IPA/APA) It helps to balance the hop aroma. Just don't add too much, I do 1/2 lb max per 5gal batch.

I also only use 1/2lb of honey malt. Again, just for complexity and a little honey aroma to complement the toast of the Vienna. Doesn't add color, but adds sweetness, but not malty/sugary sweet. It allows me to use a high attenuating yeast, but still have a little sweetness to balance the bitter.

I use Magnum for bittering because it's very clean and just bitters, it doesn't add much flavor.

Combine all that with the tropical fruit of the Citra and you get a great complex aroma, a full mouthfeel, a little toast at first that turns to a sweet tropical/mango and finishes with a nice dry bitterness that completely hides the 8% ABV.

Overall a pretty good brew if you like IPA/APA

 

[rodwha]

Indeed that does sound good! I like most styles of beer, with IPA's among my favorite. My APA's are low end IPA's to entice the others over here where I am!

I'll be using Aromatic in a Belgian blonde that I'm thinking I'll make in Feb.

I'm surprised your yeast lasted so long. 4 months has been the longest I've gone, and maybe it could have kept going...

 

[whitehause]

I've had pretty good luck in my years of experimenting. I could tell by the color the yeast was still in pretty good shape, but figured I better get em awake and moving just to be safe. When it starts getting dark and peanut butter colored it's on it's way out. I've harvested from bottles that I know were 5 or 6 months old. It takes a lot more steps, but I've found yeast is pretty hearty stuff.

I guess you could call this an IPA because it has an estimated 95 IBU's, I just always call mine APA's because It's my recipe made here in America. That might not be to judging standards, but I don't enter contests, so what the hell.

 

[rodwha]

Mind sharing the recipe?

 

[whitehause]

Not at all,

Whitehause Honey Badger

12 lb weyermann pale ale
1 lb Vienna
1/2 lb aromatic
1/2 lb honey malt

At 6.5 gal gallon pre boil and 5.5 gal yield, it should be about 1.070 with 75% eff.

60 min Mash

60 min boil

1 oz magnum at 60
1 oz citra at 15
1 oz citra at 10
1 oz citra at 5
1 oz citra at flame out
2 oz citra dry hop for 5 days

I used Conan (Heady Topper yeast) but us-05, wpl001, or any "IPA" yeast should work fine.

I ferment at 64deg for two weeks, then bring up to 70 for 2 or 3 days, transfer to secondary to dry hop for 5 days. Some people dry hop right in the primary, but I transfer from a bucket to a better bottle for dry hop because I like to save some yeast, and don't dry hop on yeast I'm going to save. If you use a carboy or better bottle, cover it so light doesn't hit it! I even cover my buckets....might not have to, but it doesn't hurt.

I know a lot of people think Citra has been done to death, but I've been using it for a couple of years, and I like it. I try to have one beer around that uses it, and many craft beer drinkers haven't had a really Citra forward beer, so it's always a crowd pleaser.

Enjoy!

 

[rodwha]

I've only used Citra once in an IPA.

I'd certainly say that qualifies as an IPA!

 

[whitehause]

I guess at a hair over 8% it could be called a double IPA

 

[rodwha]

What are the IBU's?

I've heard that 20 mins is the ideal time point for flavoring. Ever try that?

 

[whitehause]

estimated 95 IBU.

I find 15 works just as well, and it makes a nice round number for finishing the additions (15-10-5-0) and lets face it, the wort doesn't cool in 5 mins no matter what method you use. I have saved the last addition till after the wort cools to 175, then added and held the temp there for 15 mins while whirlpooling. To be honest, I'm not sure if it added to the flavor and aroma, or if I thought it did because I thought it should.

 

[rodwha]

I've been hearing a bit about this whirlpooling. What's the difference between that and dry hopping?

 

[whitehause]

Totally different things.

Dry hopping is done after the beer is fermented. Hops are added to the beer and sits at room temp for 5 to 7 days (give or take), then the beer is kegged or bottled.

Whirlpooling is done right after the boil ends. You can have a pump that recirculates the wort and feeds it into an elbow 1/2 way up the pot that causes the wort to spin and form a whirlpool effect. This also helps to make a cone of trub and hops in the middle of the pot so you can draw off the side and get less junk in your fermenter.
You can also just spin the wort with a spoon to get a whirlpool going, but this rarely gives you a good cone in the bottom.
Some people have also dropped the temp down to about 175 and added hops then start a whirlpool. The idea is that the temp and whirlpool really bring out the hop aroma, and help it survive longer after it's bottled. I have found that this seems to be true.

 

[rodwha]

Sorry. What's the difference in aroma as I assume that's all it can do. How does it differ?

I've often seen 1-0 min addition, but changed them to 5 mins as I figured that added into the boil it was better locked in, that it wouldn't fade so easily. Not that I understand that, but it seems to make sense somehow.

 

[whitehause]

Ahhh....I see what your looking for.

The goal for aroma is to dissolve the aromatic oils, but not vaporize and drive them off. There is a middle ground between boiling (vaporizing) and dry hopping at room temp(too cold to draw out and utilize all the oils)
The ideal temp is thought to be right about 175 or so. This extracts the oils more efficiently than room temp, but isn't hot enough to vaporize and drive off potential aromas.
At least that's the theory.

 

[rodwha]

So the aroma sticks around longer?

Might have to give this a try in my upcoming Cascadian dark!

 

[rodwha]

How long do you whirlpool it?

Maybe I'll tie it to my spoon so it'll swirl around as I cool it down

 

[whitehause]

10 or 15 mins. The spoon method works great for hops, just doesn't usually form a great cone.

The biggest thing is to get it to 175 or so, stop chilling, then add the hops. stir it gently! At this temp you don't want to introduce oxygen yet, just a nice gentle stir for a minute then let it spin on its own. When it almost stops, another gentle stir and so on. Hot side oxidation can occur above 80 deg(endless debates about this though) so don't whip it, just an easy stir.

Turn your chiller back on, and chill as normal.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Ahhh....I see what your looking for.

The goal for aroma is to dissolve the aromatic oils, but not vaporize and drive them off. There is a middle ground between boiling (vaporizing) and dry hopping at room temp(too cold to draw out and utilize all the oils)
The ideal temp is thought to be right about 175 or so. This extracts the oils more efficiently than room temp, but isn't hot enough to vaporize and drive off potential aromas.
At least that's the theory.

^^^this^^^

Excellent explanation! I'll add that you maximize extraction of different oils at temps ranging from 200 to about 140 IIRC.

 

[rodwha]

Hmmm… Gotta try this! I cool by sink water/ice.

So just drop a hop each in, gently stir, and when it stops give it another stir?

 

[rodwha]

Maybe pull it from the water bath at 180* and try it then?

 

[whitehause]

^^^this^^^

Excellent explanation! I'll add that you maximize extraction of different oils at temps ranging from 200 to about 140 IIRC.

Very true, that's why 175 seems to be the magic number....Hot enough to get the high temp oils, and cool enough(till your done whirlpooling/stirring) to get the cooler temp oils.:rockin:

 

[TANSTAAFB]

You don't have to constantly stir. Steep and stir every time you walk by until it's cool. When you have a pump to constantly recirculate you can "whirlpool" but it's not necessary

 

[whitehause]

Maybe pull it from the water bath at 180* and try it then?

That'll work....it seems like a pain, and it is, but for great hop aroma it seems to make a difference!

 

[rodwha]

I added 1 oz of cascade for this and it bumped up my IBU's a few points. This doesn't add to it does it? Not that I'd complain!